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Time to buy replacement disks. They are done. Similar wear to OEMs using OEM pads. Yep... >180k miles now.
I never made it back to the track to run my car, but I,have been doing flagging and communications as a member of the San Francisco Region SCCA. Including most pro events at Laguna.
I will post the disk replacement on a new thread.
Wow, 180k miles? That's the highest mileage M156 I've heard of. Congrats sir! You should file for Mercedes' high mileage award.
Time to buy replacement disks. They are done. Similar wear to OEMs using OEM pads. Yep... >180k miles now.
I never made it back to the track to run my car, but I,have been doing flagging and communications as a member of the San Francisco Region SCCA. Including most pro events at Laguna.
I will post the disk replacement on a new thread.
Jon,
Thanks for the update. Please take some measurement on the rotor thickness and some pictures on surface appearance etc when replacing to new.
You are the very first one to audit/report RB two piece's durability for Mercedes application on a long terms basis, and the result is basically same as other customers reported from Subaru WRX/Sti, Evolution/Mitsubishi, and Lexus IS F and RC F for the similar spirited driving (mountain, canyon) etc. and last longer than 100,000 miles and 5/6 years. This is truly appreciated and valuable for other Mercedes owners to learn the true value of what their brake should be when comes to replacement/upgrade.
As to brake pad compound, with the heavy weight of MB and some members might brake their cars beyond street driving we started offering our XT910 as an upgrade option; which is more wear resistant than ET500 under higher temperature but still is "no squeaking" and "very low dust" than most Mercedes owners care about.
XT910 has been a very popular compound in other communities for heavy weight cars especially like for GT-R.
Time to buy replacement disks. They are done. Similar wear to OEMs using OEM pads. Yep... >180k miles now.
I never made it back to the track to run my car, but I,have been doing flagging and communications as a member of the San Francisco Region SCCA. Including most pro events at Laguna.
I will post the disk replacement on a new thread.
Any update on disc replacement and new XT910 compound?
I can share my 2cents in regards to the XT910 in street driving on my E63 and factory rotors.
Street Driving:
Initial bite is Good/OK. Factory pads have 3x more initial bite and deceleration rate until pad life is <70%. After the 70% mark bite and deceleration is on par. I do have to note the XT910 pads have a very very linear feel. It's been 3,000 miles and the pads still feel exactly the same as day one. I'd safely assume they'll feel the same up until they're in need of replacement. Factory pad performance demished as time went by. Up until they were in need of replacement. By that time they did not feel confidence inspiring. This was about 40-30% life when the factory pads just didn't feel confidence inspiring. They weren't bad but weren't good. Having a linear performing pad is key to proper driving. You want your pad to perform exactly as you expect it when you expect them on the street or the track.
I have yet to perform any elevated or panic braking with the XT910, but as they feel very linear in regards to pedal pressure it is not something I would worry about for daily driving. I do have to mention that my opinions on the pads beyond street would be a no...they feel like a great sport pad, but not a pad I'd use on the track. That is just the feeling I get. I could be wrong though as I haven't tested them to that extent just yet.
In regards to dust and noise...they aren't noisy one bit, but do dust the same as the factory pads intially. Over time though the pad dust didn't keep building exponentially on wheels though like factory pads do. Factory brake pad dust seems to attract more factory brake pad dust like a magnet. The XT910's dusted the wheels within the first 10 minutes of stop and go driving, but after that slowly built up. Also, they made noise once or twice but that was about it.
As time goes on I may update this review if anything changes.
Back in 2013 i ordered rb et500 pads, and the open slot rotors for my E63...
after installation and bedding, there was a slight vibration in stopping, i called racing brake and racing brake said its normal due to the brakes being race application... ive been in high pro cars before with ceramic rotors and smooth as butter...
at high speeds the front end has always shaken, bigger shake initially and then feeling like a smaller car with worn out brakes, felt in the steering wheel as well...
alignment is perfect, bushings are solid, and 4 month old tires presently.. but as these have worn down the vibrating has increased, the pads and rotors still have ALOT of life left in them, ive only put 15k miles on it since the install, no tracking just a weekend car..
id love to keep racingbrake but i cant deal with the shakiness anymore and am embarrassed when my car trembles as i try to slow down, other than that theyve been a quality product and pads have a big bark, almost dustless compared to oem
have you bleed your brakes and verified that all of your 6 pistons are sliding smoothly? if your brake pad is wearing unevenly due to dragging pistons, or air in your system you will have brake judder or vibration.
additionally when you spin the hub you should be able to see any imbalance within your rotor if it does exist. in regards to pads, pads should not cause vibration unless you have hot spots on your rotor, or have left over pad material on your rotor. If you have hot spots on your rotor causing uneven wear you may need to replace the rotors themselves. If you have brake pad deposits on your rotor you'll need to knock them down using emory cloth and throughly clean using brake cleaner.
If the new rotors were not perfectly seated on the hub this would happen. That is why you are supposed to check the run out with a micrometer to insure that there is no asymmetry or "wobble", which many people skip. Everything needs to be very clean when positioning the rotor and the lugs will not always "square" the rotor when tightened.
note: this has been the issue since the install, car is never tracked and i dont really drive hard enough to be warping these diesel *** rotors
this happens at speeds above 80+, so its a small warp that wouldnt be seen by spinning the hub at human turn speed...
as for bleeding the brakes, i havent done that, i installed them myself, been a mechanic since 15yrs old..
trust me this was a clean install, wire wheeled any rust off of the intire hub, cleaned and scraped residue off the backing of the wheels, scraped and washed any buildup on the calipers, replaced caliper hardware all of it except for piston seals... applied thin brake lube where the pads move in the calipers and finally torqued down the wheels and followed the bedding procedure..
as RB said it was norm, so i felt "it will prob go away as they seat", never did
not bashing the product, aside the vibrations it stops very hard, and its been holding up nicely... compared to oem i hands down would prefer racing brake
also these rotors were purchased thru amazon, sold by racing brake with a better discount than they offered on their own website
.
Last edited by animal_63518; 01-13-2017 at 01:14 PM.
I don't mean to question your skills which I am sure exceed my own. But I very nearly installed one of my front rotors on an angle, only caught it because the brakes would slightly bind at one position when spun by hand. This was after cleaning etc as you mentioned. I removed the wheel, and the screw, tapped with a hammer with no joy. Then used an old lug bolt and tightened it, released and went around hole by hole directly on the rotor, that finally seated it. The rotors were Brembos just like oem it it matters. Post just for info, not implying you did anything wrong.
my skills are average and i encourage questioning, thats how we all learn new things and from mistakes...
i can picture your scenario, glad you got that squared away..
im very **** with my cars, thats why i did this myself.. have only gone to the dealer for trans conductor plate (tranny is still fkn up presently, cant figure out if its a guibo, my diff gears out of slack, has a slight jerk when off and then on the gas... also when cold automatic downshift from 2nd to 1st feels like im towing a loose trailer...), and engine mounts..
I've got huge performance package (p030) rotors on the front. They developed a bad shake that transferred into the tire tread. I cured it with dusty old stock pads and had to replace the front tires too. Was running EBC redstuff before.
Make sure the pads can move freely in the calipers. you can get corrosion under the stainless guides and they tighten up.
Ok guys, 201,000 miles and just changed the RB front disks. Also RB XT910 pads. Pics to come. Had to look up this thread to look up the caliper torque!
Ok guys, 201,000 miles and just changed the RB front disks. Also RB XT910 pads. Pics to come. Had to look up this thread to look up the caliper torque!
This is definitely an impressive record yet to be broken. It's also a true testimonial for MB owners who are considering their rotor replacement whether to go with OE, or low cost aftermarket 1 piece, or even a "cheaper" competition 2pc, by factoring in the durability.
The choice is clear and simple - RB 2pc rotor.
Jon, just out of curiosity, how many brake pads replacement during RB 2pc rotor life of 114,000 miles, and how it compares to your previous pad replacement as you run OE two piece. And have you noticed RB center mount design may have helped lowering the braking temperature and thus requires less pad replacement.
Thanks for your candid comment and sharing.
Warren-RB
Last edited by RacingBrake; 05-30-2017 at 04:10 PM.
Ok guys, 201,000 miles and just changed the RB front disks. Also RB XT910 pads. Pics to come. Had to look up this thread to look up the caliper torque!
We assume you were referring to the torque on mounting bolts from caliper adaptor to spindle which we recommend 60-65 ft-lbs for M12, and 65-70 ft-lbs for M14.
Both torque value are applicable to caliper bolts (caliper to adaptor) or adaptor bolts (adaptor to spindle).
With 87,000 miles on the rotors including 2 track days, they were shot. I have had the RacingBrake front rotors for a few months waiting for an opportunity to put them on. This was supposed to be a day for both front and rears, but I could not find the E18 Torx socket for the rear. I will post that later.
I will tell you that the most difficult thing about the install was finding any reliable information on the torque requirements of the front caliper bolts. I had read stories about 200ftlbs to remove them and 135ftlb torque spec. However, all of these were from E55 guys. So I am ready to have to find a 3ft breaker bar as I remove the calipers and I am able to easily break them free by hand using a 18inch bar. This did not add up. Including the fact that the caliper is aluminum. So, in the end, I only torqued them to 85ftlbs based on some information on Brembo installs. If someone shows me definitively they should be 135ftlbs because they show me in a manual, I will re-install them. The bolts are Grade 10.9 and capable of >200ftlbs.
So here I am with parts ready to go, new brake lines and titanium shims from from evosport, OEM brake pads and sensors, and the new rotors.
I was working at a friends garage and he had a parts cleaner facility that made it easy to clean the pins, clips, and bolts.
Here I am ready to remove the caliper. I used a hanger in order to hold up the caliper once the bolts were remove. We decided to see how late it was before deciding to do the brake lines. Turned out to be a smart move, we did not install the lines that day.
Here are the 21mm (socket size) mounting bolts and caliper keeper bolt. I cleaned them off and re-applied medium strength Loctite when replacing.
Here is the left side with everything removed. I wire brushed the hub surface and applied a think layer of synthetic axel grease as a rust inhibitor. Note the wire to the right of the top caliper mounting hole; the fat part of the wire fits into a clip behind the hub assembly. I needed to remove that to ensure I had clear access to the upper mounting bolt. Do not forget to put it back. The right side has two wires since that is where the wear sensor is located.
Here is the rotor I removed. Note that the slots are nearly gone. This is easily below minimum thickness. I do not want to get my hands dirty tonight, but I will follow up with measurements and pictures of the lip on these things. Not pretty. Also note the brake pad shots. Nearly to the point the wear indicator would have turned on. Also, the cracking indicates just how hot these things got. Not sure if this would have happened when I installed them during my Thunderhill outing or if it was at Laguna. Laguna certainly turned the calipers bronze.
Here the new rotor is on and the bolts are only hand tight. I was not ready to torque them down until I had fitment on the pads. I did not need to remove the rotor again, but the fit with the new pads left no room for the Titanium shims. I do not use the word "tight fit" because without the shims it was fine. I am sure the shims will fit before my next track session. Titanium shims act as an insulator between the hot pads and the pistons. As a result, less heat goes to the brake fluid.
So here is left and right all done and torqued to 85ftlbs as mentioned in my opening discussion. Wires are all back in their retaining clips.
Although I did not perform a runout test on these, there is no indication anything is off. They have been working well. Hard to judge friction level given the machined surface has not been worn away yet. I followed the road car brake in recommendation from RacingBrake.
Some other notes. Use rubber gloves. I went through a bunch. Can of break cleaner to spray things off, in some cases to clean it up just for inspection to see if any of the piston rubber boots look aged or cracked. Also a pan to catch the brake cleaner. Remember which way the brake pad springs installed. I did the left side first and had it upside down. When I did the right, the little clip for the wear sensor wire was in the wrong spot and I realized my mistake.
Next time, I will post the rear install.
04/29/18
Not sure if I'm viewing it correctly but it appears the direction of the Bolt which secures the Strut/AirSpring Shock to the Control Arm was installed backwards. I just referenced this board before installing my refurbished (RMT) AirSpring Struts and after installing it I found on the WIS when I went to look for Torque Settings the diagram showing the bolt being installed from the front side to the rear with the Nut towards the rear. I might add to anyone attempting this to be mindful of routing the Caliper Hose on the Wheel side of the shock as it's easy to forget that detail when the caliper is hanging up in the wheelwell while one is working on their suspension!!! By the way, it was this post which caused me to pull the trigger for the Racing Brakes! They're still in the box however I'll be mounting them today!!!
OP stated, finding accurate torque specs for those caliper bolts are quite difficult and i find report ranges anywhere between 132-200ft/lbs 0_0; which i myself also find hard to believe.
Anyhow, i just replaced my GL63s front rotors and and they also have the 6 piston calipers. As mentioned by the OP, i also tightened them to 85ft/lbs.
After bedding in brake pads (TRW ceramic) and rotors (zimmerman 390mm) twice, with 10 passes, car drove perfectly fine, braking was smooth. No wiggles, shutters, shakes, shudder, vibration, etc. Calipers didn't fall of either. lol
Pads and rotors are nicely bedded now
Anyhow, if anyone can truly confirm the correct torque specs for the caliper bolts (21mm hex), the i will re-tighten, but until then 85ft/lb tq seem to be A okay.
I hope everyone is doing well and staying safe during this pandemic
06-10-2015, 12:11 PM
You should file for Mercedes' high mileage award.
Strut Bolt to Control Arm
Caliper bolt torque spec
