Another RTR pulley failure
05-22-2012, 03:42 PM
#51
SPONSOR
I have been told that ASP makes the RTR pulley. ASP makes the EC pulley too. Obviously ASP makes an OEM style pulley too.
05-22-2012, 03:43 PM
#52
SPONSOR
They are all ASP pulleys.
He got the RTR branded pulley.
He got the RTR branded pulley.
Hold on a second, you are saying that the pulley that was sent to the OP was maded by ASP, which is the OEM MB hub with the aluminum outer ring pressed on and pinned to the OEM hub?
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
05-22-2012, 03:59 PM
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
I have heard that Lee @ ASP will machine whatever you want, but he isn't into doing any R&D for an outside company's product. They are a machine shop, and customers will come to them with pulley designs and he machines that design.
It is up to the customer/owner of the design to perform R&D on his own design before they release it to the public.
It is up to the customer/owner of the design to perform R&D on his own design before they release it to the public.
05-22-2012, 04:02 PM
#56
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2010 E350, 2011 ML350, 2003 996TT
05-22-2012, 04:05 PM
#57
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if it's RTR's design at fault, ASP isn't to blame here. ASP just takes the blueprints given to them by RTR and make the product for a cost. I'm sure if a lawsuit was started, ASP would be named in it, and their liability insurers would spend a lot of money defending them
05-22-2012, 04:08 PM
#58
SPONSOR
Guys - just hang tight. We are in the process of inspecting the pulleys now. RTR has provided all of the info we have requested to have an outside party do a formal inspection.
We will have more info soon.
We will have more info soon.
05-22-2012, 04:09 PM
#59
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It sounds like I should just get the standard 17% overdrive pulley that ASP offers at this rate, or the Kleemann 168. 17% overdrive = 168 or 172?
05-22-2012, 04:10 PM
#60
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E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
Jerry is top notch, give the brother a shout, he will take care of you.
Scary stuff for sure.
Surprised there are not other options for a crankshaft supplier. Supply and demand I suppose.
05-22-2012, 04:11 PM
#61
SPONSOR
Too many what if's.
How do you know ASP didn't design the pulley?
How do you know the drawings aren't perfect and the machine shop (ASP) made the mistake?
Nobody knows at this point.
However, I can assure you that I will work closely with the needed parties and together we will find the answer.
Thanks!
How do you know ASP didn't design the pulley?
How do you know the drawings aren't perfect and the machine shop (ASP) made the mistake?
Nobody knows at this point.
However, I can assure you that I will work closely with the needed parties and together we will find the answer.
Thanks!
if it's RTR's design at fault, ASP isn't to blame here. ASP just takes the blueprints given to them by RTR and make the product for a cost. I'm sure if a lawsuit was started, ASP would be named in it, and their liability insurers would spend a lot of money defending them
05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
#62
Out Of Control!!
All of the accusations of the RTR pullies being defective is still only that. Accusations. Not one pulley has ever been returned to ASP or UPD or RTR or EC for anyone to look at or inspect for cause. We have worked endlessly behind the scenes with the users, dealers, and manufacturer to get these products back to look at. Every manufacturer has the right to inspect any product that someone makes claims against. We work with anyone who has a valid issue, and who works with us, but to date we have only been on the receiving end of endlessly vicious attacks.
It is very similar to this: If you sell someone your car and it gets wrecked by the person who bought it, they refuse to let you see the car, post how you ripped them off, and that you are a fraud, thief and terrible person. They attack your friends, family and business, and still refuse to let you see anything, and only want a blank check for the assumed damage. That is the position we are all in. We do not wish to battle publicly, but there are always 2 sides to every story.
It is very similar to this: If you sell someone your car and it gets wrecked by the person who bought it, they refuse to let you see the car, post how you ripped them off, and that you are a fraud, thief and terrible person. They attack your friends, family and business, and still refuse to let you see anything, and only want a blank check for the assumed damage. That is the position we are all in. We do not wish to battle publicly, but there are always 2 sides to every story.
05-22-2012, 04:28 PM
#63
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05-22-2012, 04:30 PM
#64
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05-22-2012, 04:31 PM
#65
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05-22-2012, 04:33 PM
#66
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Dirt Scooters
All of the accusations of the RTR pullies being defective is still only that. Accusations. Not one pulley has ever been returned to ASP or UPD or RTR or EC for anyone to look at or inspect for cause. We have worked endlessly behind the scenes with the users, dealers, and manufacturer to get these products back to look at. Every manufacturer has the right to inspect any product that someone makes claims against. We work with anyone who has a valid issue, and who works with us, but to date we have only been on the receiving end of endlessly vicious attacks.
It is very similar to this: If you sell someone your car and it gets wrecked by the person who bought it, they refuse to let you see the car, post how you ripped them off, and that you are a fraud, thief and terrible person. They attack your friends, family and business, and still refuse to let you see anything, and only want a blank check for the assumed damage. That is the position we are all in. We do not wish to battle publicly, but there are always 2 sides to every story.
It is very similar to this: If you sell someone your car and it gets wrecked by the person who bought it, they refuse to let you see the car, post how you ripped them off, and that you are a fraud, thief and terrible person. They attack your friends, family and business, and still refuse to let you see anything, and only want a blank check for the assumed damage. That is the position we are all in. We do not wish to battle publicly, but there are always 2 sides to every story.
Its very similar to this. If you go into a gas station and have 2 $100 bills. 1 is fake and the other is real. You pay for something with the fake $100 but the teller spots the fake. If she gives it back to you can then switch them and act like nothing ever happened. Kinda like im sure whoever you would have "test" the pulley if you would even have it tested would say oh man thats installer error. Answer this for me. If you got the pulley back and actually were to find out it was defective what would you do????
05-22-2012, 04:42 PM
#67
MBWorld Fanatic!
You want us to hand over the ONLY thing that actually ties Brooke/ red tooth racing to the end user that had the pulley tear up their motor. Hmmm.... I wonder why we were advised not to send it back.
Its very similar to this. If you go into a gas station and have 2 $100 bills. 1 is fake and the other is real. You pay for something with the fake $100 but the teller spots the fake. If she gives it back to you can then switch them and act like nothing ever happened. Kinda like im sure whoever you would have "test" the pulley if you would even have it tested would say oh man thats installer error. Answer this for me. If you got the pulley back and actually were to find out it was defective what would you do????
Its very similar to this. If you go into a gas station and have 2 $100 bills. 1 is fake and the other is real. You pay for something with the fake $100 but the teller spots the fake. If she gives it back to you can then switch them and act like nothing ever happened. Kinda like im sure whoever you would have "test" the pulley if you would even have it tested would say oh man thats installer error. Answer this for me. If you got the pulley back and actually were to find out it was defective what would you do????
05-22-2012, 04:53 PM
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
Whether you test my 195mm, Steve's 195mm, or the OP's 180mm or Franks 195mm in Miami, or the two failures in Canada, it does not matter.
The whole design is flawed, JUST test one 180mm, 185mm, 190mm and 195mm from the RTR production.
Off course the test should be done by an independant engineering shop, and that is what I am doing on my end. Once I have those results, I would not hesitate to send my actual two failed pulleys back to RTR, since I will have hard data that cannot be skewed.
The whole design is flawed, JUST test one 180mm, 185mm, 190mm and 195mm from the RTR production.
Off course the test should be done by an independant engineering shop, and that is what I am doing on my end. Once I have those results, I would not hesitate to send my actual two failed pulleys back to RTR, since I will have hard data that cannot be skewed.
05-22-2012, 05:06 PM
#70
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2004 sl55
Hold on a second, you are saying that the pulley that was sent to the OP was maded by ASP, which is the OEM MB hub with the aluminum outer ring pressed on and pinned to the OEM hub?
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
This ASP style pulley does not allow for the adjustable boost feature.
The RTR has bolts attaching the aluminum outer ring to a non MB hub, these bolts can be unscrewed and a different size ring bolted on.
Which one did you have on your car, does it look like this:
Yes, it's the RTR pulley in the picture. ASP apparently has some involvement but I don't want to add confusion to this mess so all I can say for sure is 1. it's the same pulley you and Steve used 2. ASP has some role in the manufacturing process
05-22-2012, 05:40 PM
#71
Out Of Control!!
Steve,
To your pointed question, any issue that is found would be rectified and dealt with appropriately. None of us want cars to break, we all want good products that perform well. It does not benefit us or anyone else to shove this "under the rug" as you are suggesting. We have over 50 units out there and if there is a common denominator that can tie any issues together then we would acknowledge and rectify. Your issues have been publicly documented repeatedly, so holding on to the pulley solves nothing for you or anyone else.
To your pointed question, any issue that is found would be rectified and dealt with appropriately. None of us want cars to break, we all want good products that perform well. It does not benefit us or anyone else to shove this "under the rug" as you are suggesting. We have over 50 units out there and if there is a common denominator that can tie any issues together then we would acknowledge and rectify. Your issues have been publicly documented repeatedly, so holding on to the pulley solves nothing for you or anyone else.
05-22-2012, 05:50 PM
#73
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2004 sl55
I'm not trying to stir the pot or create further issues (and will be happy to send the pulley back for inspection once it's been fully documented).... but my question is this: if there are ~50 pullies out there with 5 known failures we are already at a 10% failure rate. That's starting to get alarming.
