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2005 E55, 2007 ML63, 2008 SLK, 2015 GLK350, BMW Z3, Dodge Power Wagon, Electric Smart car
I have had this hiccup mode after adding 82mm TB & PTE cams. I couldn't go 50 miles without a CEL. I was able to prevent it from happening for 3 months with a split second cam tuner but did not like the idea of a patch on the problem. I then had Eurocharge change the map voltage and the problem is not as often but it happens weekly. I have recorded some video of the problem. See Below
What I have also experienced. I have a 80mm TB and was a Kleemann K-4 tuned car.
I moved on to vacuum leaks and such. went through everything plugs, wires, v/c gaskets resealed, throttle body gasket and relearned also replaced surge tank gaskets, front o2's and problem came back.
Now whenever I would put a new tune in(EC) it would be all good for a few miles and once the adaption process got done it would go back to the hiccup. I have noticed if i drive it hard for a few miles it would go away for a little bit.
I have learned how to drive it and can make it not happen with a very careful use of the throttle pedal.
what I did notice was when I was trying to smog my car. upon the 2500 to idle test car would blow clean as can be @ 2500 rpm but upon the decel and the idle portion it would load up and dump fuel and take way more than the required 30 sec for it to come back into spec making it fail smog. with a running to rich at idle. I used a EC tune and it got better but i was able to get around it..
'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Originally Posted by Shifter
I've come to realize this is happening to me. It happens on the way to work every morning. Cruising 80-90. Steady throttle, you can feel it happen and the wideband goes off the scale lean momentarily. Then returns to normal. However if I then roll into it slow the af is way lean like 16-17. Low speed seems ok , like once I exit and come to a stop then reaccel
That's my exact scenario...84mph! I can live with it because it's the only drivability issue and I've data logged and know NEVER to dip into the throttle right after it happens but it's a bad situation that needs to be resolved.
Thanks alot :-)
I could only add 12 final option here in this forums software. Also i have no administration rights, nor can i edit the poll or its votes
I'm guessing there's no chance that someone has come up with a magic fix and forgotten to share ...
I assume the guys experiencing the issue have LTHs fitted. Probably has nothing to do with the issue but please humour me and disclose how far down the headers your O2 sensors are positioned
Hi all - in South Australia having the same hiccup issue with the CLS55K for last 12 months.
Now, have just ordered an 85mm TB + modified housing, 3"Alum intake, 77mm Supercharger pulley, belt Wrap Kit + Green Belt plus 5 Alum Pulley set. Putting them all in next week.
Also the Eurocharged tune as well.
But here's the thing - I spoke to a guy who had the same problem in Victoria a couple of years back with his 55. He said it came down to a faulty Bosch Auxiliary Water Pump which throws the computer off through not supplying the correct air cooled water to the engine causing the computer to overcompensate and throw out the idle - really common problem.
Apparently the earlier Bosch AUX WP's were a dodgy batch that have only recently been remedied in recent years.
Given the replacement part posted is only US$110 on ebay I purchased a new one as well - seems cheap change to get this annoying problem sorted out.
Anyway, once all this gear is in next week, I will post an update on the beast!
By the way a CLS55K is about as much bang for your buck you can get on the auto market at the moment in Australia.
On a light rising throttle in manual 1st gear my SL55 experiences a big 'hiccup' right at 3500 rpm. My E55 does exactly the same thing. The SL55 has the EC throttle body, 77mm pulley, split cooling etc. The E55 has only an 84mm pulley. Both have a EC tune. The same thing happens sporadically on both cars especially with the trans in manual on the 1-2 shift under light load. Is this the "hiccup"??
I'll mention it, as I've mentioned it in another recent thread, would the pulley gap have anything to do with this? I was speaking with Anthony over at RaceIQ and he said that some of the issues could be attributed to excessive pulley gap. Mine is currently twice the MFR allowance (~.8mm)and I suffer from the hiccup.
Not going to be the cause, but if it makes it worse, that's a clue in this mystery.
Considering that in the 85mm thread currently being discussed someone had hiccup issues that disappeared when moving to a fixed pulley and reappeared once they switched back, it could be a clue indeed.
I'm really interested to know if anyone who HAD the hiccup replaced their faulty Factory Bosch Aux Cooler Pump and THEN noticed the Hiccup disappear? Even one person who is able to confirm this first hand would be a great start in order to confirm the theory that was recently put forward as the culprit. Any takers?
Trabots...the way I would describe the "hiccup" by the way is when driving along all of a sudden you hear a little click, and this may or may not be accompanied by a CEL and then the car stars running really rough, especially noticiable when you pull up at the lights where it feels the car want to take off (surging) forward. Sometimes I place it in neutral such is the lumpyness experienced. Sometimes a restart fixes it straight away - but it seems to be always lurking ready to strike... engine runs like its got a massive lumpy camshaft all of a sudden - but definately no more power just rough idling and low speed cruising. Cleaned TB and makes no difference. Anyway - new gear goes in next week so will update forum accordingly with outcome.
OK - I believe we are getting closer to resolving the "Hiccup" issue once and for all.
In pulling off my SC to put on the new SC TB housing to match up with the new 85mm TB, (believ it or not the whole darn SC has to come off unless you are pulling off the factory intercooler equipment and putting on aftermarket gear, my mechanics discovered that the back end of a small vacuum hose that goes to the TB had been left off (or had fallen out of a loose rubber grommet called a "Cover Ring") when someone had previously taken off and put back on the valve covers.
COVER RING Part Number: 112 031 00 33
Now, the mechanical team has a pretty good theory that this could cause the implausible idle speed error / CEL issue which has been coming up and if we hadn't have gone to so much trouble pulling apart everything, we may never have found this vacuum leak given it is hidden away from plain sight.
If you find this is an issue its best to order this cover ring grommet to keep it in place (dont risk reusing the original given if it came out once it may do so again) - its a very rare part and needs to come from Germany or Singapore, but its only about $5 plus postage - this will ensure it stays in place.
Basically a crappy design flaw -and who knows could solve this Hiccup riddle once and for all.
I will update this forum when all the gear is put back into place and the new tune, 77mm SC pulley, 5 pc alloy pulley set, wrap kit and green HD belt, 85mm TB / Housing and 3in Alum intake + upgraded bosch aux cooling pump are all back in place...
If no hiccup occurs and it run like it should, its going to be a case of Hiccup "SOLVED"!
OK - I believe we are getting closer to resolving the "Hiccup" issue once and for all.
In pulling off my SC to put on the new SC TB housing to match up with the new 85mm TB, (believ it or not the whole darn SC has to come off unless you are pulling off the factory intercooler equipment and putting on aftermarket gear, my mechanics discovered that the back end of a small vacuum hose that goes to the TB had been left off (or had fallen out of a loose rubber grommet called a "Cover Ring") when someone had previously taken off and put back on the valve covers.
COVER RING Part Number: 112 031 00 33
Now, the mechanical team has a pretty good theory that this could cause the implausible idle speed error / CEL issue which has been coming up and if we hadn't have gone to so much trouble pulling apart everything, we may never have found this vacuum leak given it is hidden away from plain sight.
If you find this is an issue its best to order this cover ring grommet to keep it in place (dont risk reusing the original given if it came out once it may do so again) - its a very rare part and needs to come from Germany or Singapore, but its only about $5 plus postage - this will ensure it stays in place.
Basically a crappy design flaw -and who knows could solve this Hiccup riddle once and for all.
I will update this forum when all the gear is put back into place and the new tune, 77mm SC pulley, 5 pc alloy pulley set, wrap kit and green HD belt, 85mm TB / Housing and 3in Alum intake + upgraded bosch aux cooling pump are all back in place...
If no hiccup occurs and it run like it should, its going to be a case of Hiccup "SOLVED"!
Trust me this is not the hiccup issue. This problematic pipe has plagued many with surging idle and it's been discussed numerous times. Also, most of us have done our own throttle body upgrades and are well aware the supercharger needs to be removed.
Just spoke to Eurocharged who have seen it with both stock and tuned cars. Its a case of "hit or miss' if the issue will persist apparently...
Well, ZERO people having that issue when using a german tuner like Renntech Germany.... How comes that?
IF they cant solve it in the US that the car read implausible values from the pressure sensor(s), they should at least alter all those backup maps in the ECU so the car wont hit that lean mode and just drives exactly like before. The German tuners apparently do that...
I would love to hear a detailed insight from a US tuner. Otherwise people should all dump their 82mm TBs, as the cars are undrivable and ticking time bombs as other as for racing on the track
Trabots...the way I would describe the "hiccup" by the way is when driving along all of a sudden you hear a little click, and this may or may not be accompanied by a CEL and then the car stars running really rough, especially noticiable when you pull up at the lights where it feels the car want to take off (surging) forward. Sometimes I place it in neutral such is the lumpyness experienced. Sometimes a restart fixes it straight away - but it seems to be always lurking ready to strike... engine runs like its got a massive lumpy camshaft all of a sudden - but definately no more power just rough idling and low speed cruising. Cleaned TB and makes no difference. Anyway - new gear goes in next week so will update forum accordingly with outcome.
Mataris, your issue is not mine. My problem is almost unnoticeable when in sport or comfort trans mode. It is only in manual mode that I get a hesitation after every shift under light load. This makes driving the car in manual mode not enjoyable. Under high load there is no hesitation other than the usual slowness of the trans to complete the shift. Amazing that my lowly 4L60E trans in my 06 Holden Ute shifts much quicker than my 06 '55 cars do.
2003 E55, 2003 SL55, 2014 CLS63, 2018 q50 Redsport, 1968 Camaro SS, 1999 Trans am Firehawk
Originally Posted by trabots
Mataris, your issue is not mine. My problem is almost unnoticeable when in sport or comfort trans mode. It is only in manual mode that I get a hesitation after every shift under light load. This makes driving the car in manual mode not enjoyable. Under high load there is no hesitation other than the usual slowness of the trans to complete the shift. Amazing that my lowly 4L60E trans in my 06 Holden Ute shifts much quicker than my 06 '55 cars do.
the predecessor to the 4l60E, the turbo 350 which was around in the 1950's shifts faster than the 722.6 tranny. I'm not sure I've ever seen a slower shifting transmission.
Gentleman lets please come back to the lean-spike hiccup problem. Thank you.
I have new informations from the tuners here in germany. I bet they can not believe that the US tuners for this plattform still havent figured it out.
That "lean spike" that occurs is definately the switch into a so called "backup map" that the ECU switches to, if the Software is not perfect optimized for the TB and other mods. That backup maps have to be altered for your specific mods too.
Thats the first thing they advice to do, if the US tuners actually know which backup map is for which specific sensor reporting a failure to the ECU.
The german tuners said the issue with modded 55 engines is that especially on low load, but also in situations when you accelerate from low load/idle to a higher load, the air is actually "pulsating" inside after the Throttlebody and this pulsation (up down, ie. not a constant pressure anymore like it used to be) confuses the map sensor and it "quits" and the ECU switches to a backup map. Thats why we have that so called "lean spike".
The "lean spike" is nothing else than a backup map for the stock un-modded engine.
So let say it would theoretically be possible to remove all mods while the engine runs in that "lean spike mode", it would drive just fine afterwards with stock parts.
So the table for the map sensors must be adjust to accept a wider "margin" for those increased pulsations, or how could we better call it... "fluctuations in pressure" :-)
So tuners... you have now ALL the info you need - now get to work and deliver us lean-spike free tuns and alter all those backup tables!
12-16-2013, 09:01 PM
Hiccup CLS 55
