enjracing

hey guys. with the head bolt issues, is it wise to stay away from this year e63? you can find some 40-55 thousand miles clean 2007's for 26-30k and it just seems like such an amazing deal for a car like that and for what it cost new. but, the last thing it need is to have a motor fry because of the head bolt issue. just how common is it and would a car that has 40-55 thousand miles possibly had that addressed by MB? is it a recall issue that they are fixing with redesigned bolts? tnx.

groove66

I just recently did a set of heads on a 2007 cls63. You might find Shop willing to just replace head bolts 1 at a time with all the water drained from the block and yes bolts change from a reverse torx to a e-torx. when heads are off you can see that the bolts just sit in water all the time.

But to put into perspective, the front 2 piece rotors, pads and rear rotors and pads all OEM was just as expensive as pulling the heads.

stockC43

I would say that if cost of repairs are a issue, it's not the car for you. The head bolt issue wasn't addressed until 2010 model year so unless they've been done, there the bad ones and it's only a matter of time. If you replace them before they brake you won't have to worry about bent connecting rods fwiw early m156's had many issues and unless you know how to work on them, have a good extended warranty or deep pockets it's probably best to avoid. I own a 08 ml63 but I'm a tech.

The E55 may be a better choice. You can get a very clean car for $20-22k and a good one for $15-17k. Put a 63 front end and tail lights on it and enjoy all the money you saved 55's are faster, modable and most repairs can be done yourself with a mb star tool and basic hand tools if you are a diy'er.

mightar

I'm very happy with the E63. The M156 is such a sweet engine. That said, I've been driving German vehicles for over 10 years now and I'm never concerned about the cost of fixing it up if something goes wrong - I just go out and get it fixed and then keep on enjoying it. I do my best to buy a used one with an owner who has the same mentality - it's worked out very well for me and I recommend you do the same. Documented service history goes a long way.

RZT5

Just get the head bolts, lifters, and cams replaced with the updated parts as soon as you buy the car and you won't have to worry about grenading a motor. Get your transmission serviced periodically to avoid any potential transmission problems. Yes, the brakes are expensive, get Girodisc rotors to save yourself some money. Pretty reliable car otherwise.

M-Theory

DiG deep enough you'll find something wrong with anything, the head bolt issue hasn't been that many at all.

I love my 2007 E63, only major problem is the power steering pump went out at 70k miles. I drive the crap out of mine, and drive 6-8 hours every month back and forward to another state. She's been good to me.

Owned a 2008 M3 and 2009 M5 and I like my E63 more overall (minus the slower shifts haha).

Dublinoh

No reason to stay away, unbelievable value if you are comfortable with maintenance and possible repair costs. I love mine also.

layzie12g

Most cars that are going to have issues seem to show themselves under 50,000 miles from what I have seen.

akmatic63

I don't think its a "common" issue for the m156 but you could always have it done I believe people on the c63 forums said its about a $3500 job. My car falls into the "affected" range but it doesn't worry me too much, however maybe down the road I might upgrade the bolts

mcguirja

I just had mine done proactively on my SL63. Would have been 1800 for the head bolts, I decided to do the valve buckets as well which almost doubled it.

Both head bolts and valve buckets ended up being pristine on mine. Three of the head bolts were starting to show a bit of surface rust but looked like they still had lots of life left in them. No regrets though, now that I have the new bolts and buckets I know I don't need to worry about it in the future.

E55Greasemonkey

'07 being the first year, is the worst year. If you are comfortable spending around $10k for a worst-case scenario..the cost of installing a used engine if yours grenades....then go for it. If not,then look for a different car.

Dublinoh

When did AMG begin to upgrade the bolts? Do you believe it was a "bad batch" of bolts and most were used in the first year? Is there reliable data for number of failures or failures by year? It seems that many failures manifest themselves first as coolant loss, milky oil, and whitish exhaust smoke. Prudent owners may be able to repair at that time. Worst case scenario is engine replacement, that's undeniable.

Skizz

I dunno. Ask Jon2007E63P30 how many miles he put on his with no HB problems. I don't think it's as common as perceived, but is devastating if it happens. If you don't have a warranty to cover it, the $$ to do the changeover or the $$ in reserves to handle it if you start noticing coolant loss and/or cel's, then it would be a definite concern, but not a prognostication of certain death owning one.

Beyond the HB issues, maintenance isn't cheap on a car that costs over $106k new, so I went into it prepared. If you're like me and a stickler for proper care, be prepared financially. As others have noted, brakes are pricey; I just did them myself to save the labor. It was still comparatively financially brutal, but easy to do, wrench wise. Other services all done on, or before, time. Even so, items like motor and tranny mounts are probably shot by 50-60k. Have to keep the tranny serviced properly to avoid issues. Idlers will start going dry. Power steering pump issues are common, etc. Gotta pay to play. So keeping a car like this going and well maintained can sting to keep it in the shape it needs for peak performance. If that is a concern, you may want to consider other options as well.


Caveat: I had my HB's, lifters and ca's done, so I sleep well. I lucked out and bought a car with an ELW, which took care of a lot of these issues. I did, however, see the bill on it all. Getting all this stuff done wouldn't have ruined me, but it woulda hurt. That said, heading to Eurocharged this week for headers and tune!

Skizz

I think 2011 was the year they were revised. Any before then are susceptible. You may also want to search the topic on the W204 forums. Seems like the C's had more problems, but likely a numbers game. They made more of them. There is thread about affected VIN number range, but the guy usually won't even chack your VIN if it's before 2011. If before, he just says, yep, you're affected.

BlkBenz8

What about a 2009 E63? Would it be any less affected by the year..? Just wondering.

Skizz

I dunno. As far as I can tell, anything prior to the HB revision in 2011, they are equally at risk, even the W212's with the M156. Maybe earlier versions (2007) see higher rates of failure, but short of being able to conclusively tie it in to HB suppliers that had QC issues and were subsequently changed on later models, it's purely conjecture, I think. I don't believe it has been proven that a 2010 M156 is going to have a lower failure rate than a 2007. Again, I think that the actual overall ratio is lower than perceived, but the evidence proves it's an issue.

mcguirja

The change was made mid way through the 2010 model year. It did impact all M156 engines. There is a sticky in the C63 forum that details the issue including the engine number cut over to the new parts.

Although it was prevalent in the C63 model as I was researching there was an impact across all models using the M156. There has never been any correlation as to why some have been fine while others can go at very low mileage. The general consensus is these will go eventually it is really a matter of when.

As I mentioned above, they were fine in my car, but at least I now have piece of mind. If I was looking to purchase one of these now the head bolts would be a consideration and I would factor it into the purchase price, not avoid it all together. I have an E63 S with the M157 biturbo (577 hp) and I would take the M156 over the M157 without a second thought. That is personal choice but to me they aren't even close.

Skizz

To clarify my earlier post about 2011 being the affected HB cut off year, per Valvestud on the W204 forum (thread "Head Bolt Affected VIN - 2010 & older, & early 2011s"), "all 2010 and earlier model years are affected" (post #45). The HB change was made mid calendar year (June-ish) 2010, which would have made cars built then, and subsequently, MY2011's. This thread also indicates that very early MY 2011's may have the issue as well (post #14). Although I don't know it to be definitive research, it seems to be the best shapshot of affected ranges and are tied to engine serial numbers corresponding to actual build dates and not necessarily model years (between 2010-2011 MYs and on which models). And as mcjuirja indicated above, all M156's across all models were affected within that build date and engine serial number range.


Apologies if I was misleading in my earlier post.

Skizz

What in the hell...........?

Dublinoh

Gratuitous BS, notice he's banned

Skizz

I noticed, but even most of the banned guys I've seen aren't this stupid.... He's giving banned guys everywhere a bad name.

mcguirja

You were correct but it depends on what region of the world you happen to be in when referencing MY. In the UK they used manufactured year as the model year versus North America where it is as you described. Apologies if I added confusion to the mix! The actual cut over engine number to the new parts is 60658.

e500slr

To be honest I see ALOT of blown M156, it's definitely an issue. I think it's disgraceful that they didn't do a recall and fix it free of charge. I mean even Chery Motors would and you'd think a company like Benz and AMG would take responsibility for their product. It's not exactly an isolated incident, it's a defect.

screw991le

Knock on wood, I have had my head bolts checked. No issues. I love the car so it not a deal breaker or me.

mightar

FWIW, I just hit 92k miles and it's running like a top. I'm aware of the telltale signs, but I honestly just go with the flow.

IMS issues. Vanos issues. FSI carbon buildup issues. Everybody's got issues . Just take care of the ride and enjoy the heck out of it!