210lvr

race 1/2/3:

04 e55 (my car)
kleeman headers
fabbrege mid pips (no cats, primary or secondary)
stock mufflers and resonator
box tune

vs

14 5.0 mustang (friends car)
cold air intake
h pipe, no cats
tune (from a handheld)

result from 3 highway pulls, from 40/50/60mph = dead even. told my friend i was impressed and didnt know those coyote motors were that strong. hes got a weight advantage but i dont care, wanted to see where i stand. impressed to say the least.

so now i wanted more. i bought a 77 clutched super charger pulley which is equivalent to a 180 crank. installed a belt wrap kit and also at the same time i installed injectors and soldered in new factory ford leads to the stock harness (the included adapters suck *****, but thats neither here nor there). got a new tune, they didnt code injectors in and i fuel fouled my plugs on the first WOT pull (long drawn out adventure that was). put new plugs in, 1 step colder and then got another tune. this time, it was coded correctly and i can drive the car with no issues except 1. power feels great and felt faster but has a weird lag (drive on the highway about 75mph, kick down so that you are ~50% throttle and the car shifts down 1 gear. rpms come up, car starts to just barley move forward then ~0.5 second later there is like a second phase of power where the car starts to actually accelerate correctly). this lag is not present when you go wot, only when cruising and kick down 1 gear with partial throttle.

so now i feel confident i will smoke my friend. he did absolutely ZERO new mods to the car. none. i did the above and we did 3 more races, this time from ~20mph (1st gear about 3500rpm where she really picks up nice). ambient temps ~ 70*f. ran 3 races back to back. result = dead even. so now im disappointed. how can i run dead even with him with just headers/tune, then add 77mm pulley/injectors/belt wrap kit and have the same results? we are gonna do a couple more runs from 40/50/60mph like last time to make sure of the results this upcoming week.

my datalogs show 12.3psi boost as max boost. pulley supposedly puts boost @ 15psi but i assume ~12psi is normal for a car with headers and no cats? ic pump works fine, iats are not out a line. yes i should have an HE but i shouldnt be heat soaked on the very first 6-7 second pull. crusing iats are ~15* above ambient. what gives? should i have just bought a coyote 5.0 and spent 70% less dough for mods for the same speed?

i do not expect to destroy every car on the road, but i do expect every mod to make a difference and here it seems like i wasted my money and time.

one caveat: i did install a new set of 19" wheels. i know wheels can make a difference but i figured from stock pulley to 77mm would outweigh any negatives from the new wheels. i could be wrong.

Hulk

More boost more heat. What is your cooling?

Hammer Down

You will need a dyno tune at the very least. A road tune if possible is king. Also as Hulk said "cooling" you will need either a rear tank or a under the hood tank and separate your cooling system and upgrade the heat exchanger. You also may want to think about upgarding your throttle body to 82mm. Do everything above then go race your friend.

Toadster

just doing a bigger HE will help tremendously with heat soak...

the OEM cooler is worth one good pull, then you're really struggling to keep it happy...

also make sure your intercooler pump is working well - on my pulley with dyno tune I lost 50RWHP because my pump died...

huge difference - trust me

Rocman8

Are you logging? What's the AFR and timing look like? Without those you're shooting in the dark. I'm assuming you have an EC tune since I have this exact same feeling
"power feels great and felt faster but has a weird lag (drive on the highway about 75mph, kick down so that you are ~50% throttle and the car shifts down 1 gear. rpms come up, car starts to just barley move forward then ~0.5 second later there is like a second phase of power where the car starts to actually accelerate correctly). this lag is not present when you go wot, only when cruising and kick down 1 gear with partial throttle."
Very weird sensation. Also between multiple logs and tunes back and forth I was never able to get out of the low 10's AFR

210lvr

Stock cooling. I understand upgrading cooling is a must BUT I figure that I should still walk quite easily on the first pull up to a point. I made no runs prior, literally just warmed it up then raced 3 times. Went from about 20mph to 90 on the first pull and then did 2 more pulls after. All 3 runs visually looked identical and felt the same. I would think if I was badly heat soaked after the first run the next 2 should suffer more. I agree on doing cooling upgrades by it I don't believe I should be suffering this badly on a 5-7 second pull (just guessing, not actually counting when adrenaline is pumping)

I know about the cooling and agree. It will be a mod very soon but I have a hard time wrapping my head around an instantaneous heat soak that's all. I already have items for split cooling but haven't gotten to it. HE was on hold for a bit due to the cold temps here. I see dyno comp offers one but bave not pulled the trigger yet. Seems like an improvement over the current offering Ive seen. Should I try this one out vs the more standard looking HEs?

https://www.dynocomp.com/dyno-comp-c...exchanger.html

Says it only has a 1 liter capacity. I think the others are almost 2. But maybe the increased frontal area offsets this? Thanks

thanks, I will recheck the pump. It's about a year and a half old but I've seen new parts fail right off the shelf so...

I have the ability to log and can post them here if you want to take a look. they do not have the afr though. I need to get some widebands. Your assumption is correct though. It is an EC tune and it is a very annoying sensation. I figured it was the tune but couldn't confirm it. I feel better just knowing that in itself so thank you for that. I assume you went with someone else for your tune now? If so can you recommend anyone? as of right now I have plans to go to OE tuning here and getting a custom dyno tune. I emailed them last week about it and the main reason wasn't even for more power it was to get rid of that lag in power. I didn't set anything up yet because I wasn't sure the tune would fix it. Now I feel better about spending the cash.

Hulk

Get good logging equipment. Best is dashdaq with zt2. You will have everything needed and tuners love to tune with that logging.

Let's say it was 70* out, you were probably already at 100* starting pull. Timing was being pulled pretty quick

RedBullJnky

All of the above and he may join a club.

OP get your tuning dialed in and your cooling done and you'll be fine.

210lvr

My logs show at cruise I am ~15*f above ambient. I did some yesterday and at 69*f ambient I was at 86*f iat so 17*f in this scenario. Let's assume we're at 100 before the pull, when does a reduction in timing start? I feel embarrassed that I don't know this info. Is it a linear retarding of timing? Thanks for the info on the logging equipment. I will look into it tonight.

Thanks redbulljnky. Any opinion on the dyno comp HE vs the more regularly recommended ones (or anyone else that may have experience with this unit?)

Hulk

Timing gets pulled in 3 stages, converting iats from Celsius to Fahrenheit

95* ---- 3.5* timing
113* ---- 6.3* timing
149* ----- 9.5* timing


Tuners can play with these numbers but not much, the ecu will still pull timing to protect the motor

Hammer Down

If Eurocharged still sells their heat exchanger buy that one and say a few hundred

HeissRod

Someone else may need to correct me, but I thought this did not fit the E55, due to space constraints.

BagMan

77mm pulley makes heat fast and is only good for about 2 gears with stock cooling.

Even a bigger HE will only help with recovery. You'll still build up heat at nearly the same rate and pull timing.

You need meth

BlackHammer

This may create a bit of controversy but here goes...

Are you sure your buddies Coyote was running right the first time you ran?
A buddy of mine had a 2011 and 2012 (both automatics) and both ran 11.4-11.5 at 118-120 with minimal mods (Boss302 Intake/tune and X-Pipe).

I can empathize with the disappointment and find it tough to believe you wouldn't have got at least 1 good pull in prior to heat-soak (if that is the issue). I too am a bit disappointed...

We should compare notes and I should have some before/after #'s on my car; pre additional mods it made 438 rwhp and 524 torque. Drag strip has a 2.1 60' and 12.39 @ 116. The kicker is I ran fender to fender from 40 to third gear with my buddies 6M Hellcat that dyno'ed at 662 rwhp the same day.

Yes, I am 224 light on rwhp and most are thinking "no way" on my runs with the Hellcat. It doesn't make sense but I have it on video!

Hoping to have my car back next week.

E55Greasemonkey

Did your buddie's parents give him the valet key for the Hellcat?

I ran a full bolt-on 5.0 at the track and beat him ..but...my 11.6@120.7 compared to his 12xx@119 shows a roll race could have been a different story. He left the track pissed off (typical 5.0 punk-hasn't changed since the 90's) and I wasn't able to ask what mods he had.


82mm tb is icing on the cake...but only gives .1sec and 1mph aka 1 car length .

Heavy wheels really slow down the car. If you could ever get to the track in at least 60F temps you would know if your car is running right. Or get it on a dynojet ..

BlackHammer

Too funny on the "valet key". PM me I will send you the video...

Also, you are being a bit hard on 5.0 guys. The one in question is 41, a great guy, and the Hellcat owner is 43 and previously had a 2014 GT500.

E55Greasemonkey

I'm 43. It's all in good fun!

BlackHammer

10-4.

Mike450

Stock hellcat is a 124-126 mph car. 10 mph trap difference is huge.
If it was an auto, outcome would have been way different.

Ruthle55

lol@everything posted.

1. 149F Is NOT 9.5 degrees of timing. I am currently road tuning my e55 with eurocharge. Ignition timing stayed safe as it could be on 93. theres no way people are running 30 degrees of ignition timing on these cars on 93. No. Way.

2. New mustangs, as said, are quick with basically nothing done to them. As stated, xpipe/intake/tune will trap 117-119. You have minimal mods. Throwing heat at a car isn't going to help. Livernois in Detroit has a 600rwhp n/a one. They rip.

3. You don't trap 116 and run with a hellcat. 8mph of trap is like 120+whp. He had the green key in. Those cars are trapping 127-129 with a drive shaft and a radial.

Mod SMART!

Boost does NOT yield the same benefit as timing.

Hulk

Who said they are running 30* timing??

Also those timing numbers are not taken just from thin air it is actually in mb documentation. Like I said it can be tinkered with my tuners but even though the ecu will still pull timing

Hulk

Here's the documentation

BlackHammer

Like I have shared with many others PM me and I will get you the video.

Also, I am not suggesting we went deep into triple digits. Rather the top of 2nd gear early part of 3rd for the E55 and the Hellcat did a 3-4 shift and backed off. It was clear the faster we went the faster his car was than mine. Also, he could have speed shifted it faster and maybe gained a half length...

Again, PM me for the clip!!!

Ruthle55

I'm seeing 20* ignition at 140F.

According to you, it should be at 30.

There is no set in stone number. Every car is different. Some cars love timing. Some hate it.

Hulk

How are you logging that? Try and see the timing with just that one parameter through your obd