EMFAudio

I currently have a stock pulley but I'm looking at going to a 77mm clutched pulley. Here's where the tricky part comes in. The pulley itself costs $100 more to get the 77mm, then you also have to spend another $400 on a heat exchanger. So, total cost of doing to a 77 vs an 84 is literally double. I know the heat exchanger does offer benefits regardless, but is it really worth double the money for what is gained? It's not a dyno car, or a track car, or a drag car (though I do want to do WannaGoFast sometime).

carguyshu

read this

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/amg-l...dyno-test.html

You will pick up a lot of low end torque and with the way the cars already have issues with traction the power increase would be better off up top. The smaller pulley creates more boost, but the supercharger decreases efficiency the faster you spin it, which leads to more heat.

EMFAudio

I should clarify a little more on what I'm after. I see the dyno numbers, that isn't my interest. I know what the graphs mean, and that shows why I should do one to start with. Where my interest lies is, one option is $400, the other option is $1,000. Is the butt dyno gain worth it for over double the price? I'm talking about true subjective driving. Is the fun factor worth the extra money?

BlackHammer

I don't believe there is a real $400 option"...

77mm not worth it for a whole bunch of reasons.

Agree with the other responder on traction and heat. If you have the "mod bug" but want to be smart here are a few options...

1). 84mm - $400
2). Split cooling
3). Custom Tune - $500

be done with it and enjoy it...

or

1). Split cooling
2) Meth Unjection ($1,000)
3). Everything else stock

Either way (IMHO) you will need to increase your budget.

In stock form the cars had heat/traction issues.

TK

EMFAudio

I'm already tuned and split cooled. I agree heat is an issue, which is why I bring it up because going the 77mm route I have to do a heat exchanger as well. The 84 I can get away with not doing it but wouldn't hurt.

HeissRod

IMO, the HE is not something you want to put off. Getting heat out of these motors is highly important.

carguyshu

in fairness you should really upgrade the heat exchanger even if you are keeping everything stock and even if you are just doing the 83. The 77 to really work with any efficiency is going to require not only the heat exchanger but probly also a trunk tank. The 77 will work fine for maybe 1 short romp, but other than that it will be slower vs an 83 if you don't have tons of cooling

lseguy

Ive been contemplating this quite a bit lately. But after reading this thread:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ed-my-car.html

My conclusions:
- Stock pulley has potential to fail, if not inspected regularly/caught when cracks occur
- aftermarket upper pulley has even higher failure rate
- Aftermarket upper necessitates a scatter shield for protection
- aftermarket upper requires larger pump and an aftermarket heat exchanger


All of the above for a street car never tracked..

not worth it to me.

Will stick with the EC tune and thats it


Just my thoughts.

EMFAudio

Being winter time I can definitely wait on the HE. I got the car February of this year and the IC pump needed replaced which I only knew because I checked how quickly AIT's dropped. It didn't drive any differently after I replaced it. I never saw AIT's above 70 F till the end of March. If I went 77mm I'd do it right away, but I was thinking about maybe doing it anyway around May or June when it starts getting pretty hot. Only once have I found the car to be gutless, when it was a little over 100 degrees and very high humidity. (heat index was like, 115 or 119).

When dealing with any type of modification, I'm accepting potential failure. I also know that if 1,000 cars change something and 1 has a problem as a result, odds are still in my favor. I wouldn't let an isolated incident determine everything.

EMFAudio

So you think even with upgraded cooling, the efficiency is so poor it just simply won't cool off fast enough to be useful?

SilverStrk

There is a fine line between too much boost(heat) and pulling timing which will make you slower and not enough boost. You definitely need a larger heat exchanger, split cooling without it won't do that much.. If I were going with a 77 I would at the very least put a truck tank in as well or go with meth. I have a 168 crank and 83 upper which equates to around 186-188 crank. If you add headers it will help with the cooling as well. Cooling is really the most important item on these cars.. My set up is right on. Just enough boost without too much heat.. Good luck.

MB RUSH

What Silverstrk is telling you is very accurate. Cooling will make or break you. It is possible the car will run stronger with the stock supercharger pulley due to lower IAT's The higher the outside temps and the longer the pulls the worse it gets. The cooling is barely adequate w/ no mods when outside temps get higher. when outside air temps go up IAT's go up timing is pulled. For anything like a 1/2 mile wanna go fast event you will need a trunk tank with plenty of ice even for an 84 mm. Enjoy it stock once you start the mods it does not stop. I have a used 84mm with under 1200 miles. PM if you want it.

EMFAudio

Is this a daily driver with no race or track time? Headers are on the to-do list but a ways down the list in life's bit picture.

So would you say the best course of action is the 84mm and a heat exchanger (down the line) vs a 77mm and heat exchanger now as a result of the 77mm may not outperform the 84mm after a short period of time of driving?

SilverStrk

Daily driver and she is a true sleeper with many road kills to her name. No track. You NEED the larger H/E. Do this immediately, then put the 84 on and see how it feels. Make sure your pump is running strong, if you question it at all put a new bosch 010 on as well. Header Really help with heat as it expels it much more quickly than the stock manifolds, which I might add are a Real restriction on this car. I have MBH and they are works of art. PM Shardul for the pulley and H/E, he even has a buy on headers right now, don't know the quality but it's a Real good price for long tubes. Good luck..

EMFAudio

The first thing I did a week after buying the car was put a brand new 010 on it, the one on it was dead. I've been in contact with Shardul about the pulley, I've been investigating HE's and which one is best for an 05 without "the bulge". I'm positive headers will be a budget buster right now. I ordered new wheels yesterday and I suspect I'll see a difference with those too.

lseguy

understood, but based on the contents of that entire thread, it's not isolated. (aftermarket SC pulleys exploding). Im not saying every single one fails, but common sense says that there is a higher chance of aftermarket, smaller SC pulleys failing than stock. And without notable cooling mods, an 84mm may even end up getting you slower performance than pure stock/pure stock with a tune

Rocman8

Why are headers way down the list? Just scrap the pulley idea and put headers on.

carguyshu

the higher rate of failure on the pulley was on the old design which had different rivets and springs. The updated version has a much lower failure rate. BTW you can buy a pulley much cheaper form DTK and rivet it to your stock clutch and it will then have the stock reliability.

lseguy

oh, what about a belt wrap kit. Is that a must with any from of SC pulley change?

EMFAudio

The $3,000 is why. If I can get the same or greater result for 1/6 of the price, it doesn't make sense.

Already did that.

Rocman8

Doesn't have to be $3000 especially for a daily driver. EC or Kleeman mid length is perfect and way less money.

WideRide

+1 on this. You will gain probably 35+whp from mids. First mod I did. Very noticeable difference immediately.

HeissRod

PLM. It's the only one to offer mounting brackets for the cooler that mounts underneath the HE.

EMFAudio

The only issue with doing Eurocharged or Kleeman is it's not completely bolt on. The midpipes have to be welded, and those can't be welded in till the headers are on, which means the exhaust shop has to put the headers on and weld it up unless I trailer the car there, which I'm not doing. So, I lose labor savings, and cost goes beyond the headers themselves.

What differences exactly? I know often headers can lose bottom end torque (not that I have a shortage of it) and often don't really become effective till after 3k RPM which isn't where most of my driving is.

I did catch onto that after some digging, and I emailed them to find out they will match the price of FTP's, FYI.

210lvr

Kleeman headers. Fabberge mid pipes. True bolt on.

no sense pumping more air in when you can't get it out...