JoeJErnst

Time for a little brainstorming...

Has anyone ever modified the upper ball joints by welding on some additional material to allow slotting the three holes so the camber can be adjusted? I've read the description of how to slot them for caster adjustments and thought this might work too, but it would require adding material to the outside edge.

Is this a viable option or a crazy idea? Thoughts?

BoostedAero

Yea, I think it will work, I mean we only need what 2 degrees of adjustment to get it a little flatter? I am about to go this route with my roto-zip... I have replaced everything on the front and it still is chewing up the insides a little more than I like. With the BCs I have it set a little higher than Sport II so its not like its ditched out too low

If you do it, post something up

Seems like it will work IMHO but I am my own mechanic and sometimes do stuff the faint of heart will not take on

V-AMG

YES!!!

I literally just asked my local indy if he can make the holes larger and then weld the ball-joint to the arm for additional protection. He looked at me like a nut. So, if one you guys succeeds, i'll pay you to make me a pair! I need to come back in about 1.5°. I'm at -2° at the moment.

JoeJErnst

I'm going to use the camber bolt kit first and see how much camber those take out. If it's not enough, I'll figure out a way to try this. I have a new set of Michelin PSS tires on order and I don't want to wear through those things so fast!

JoeJErnst

Is -0.5 degrees a good target for the front and rear tires? What about toe?

BoostedAero

-0.5 deg negative camber sounds like a bunch less inner tire wear than what we deal with now... reading below the best case scenario is -1.2 deg... some modification would need to be done to get it flatter. Kmac's or modification of the upper joint etc...

I stole this from Barry (BBirdwell) last night and emailed it myself to prep for changes to my set up:

"Stock (2003-2009 W211, code 489)
Front:
Camber: -1.4 +/-0.3 degrees
Caster: Not specified but usually is 10 to 11 degrees
Toe: 0.03 to 0.13 degrees (FWIW, I run 1/2 to 3/4 mm toe in on mine w/ 18" wheels)

Rear:
Camber: -1.7 degrees +/-0.5 degrees
Toe: 0.05 to 0.29 degrees (FWIW, I run 1 to 1.5 mm toe in w/ 18" wheels)

Now for the caveats:
-front camber is only adjustable by "eccentric bolts" that will give you +/- 0.3 degrees of camber change (and it also changes your caster if you only install one of the bolts on a side). Edit: front camber is adjustable if you install KMac adjustable bushings.
-rear camber is not adjustable; you can raise/lower your car using DAS Xentry, install KMac bushings, or UPD camber arms.
-front toe is easy to adjust; be sure to tie the steering wheel to the door handle and the gear shift leaver so it does not rotate while adjusting the end links.
-rear toe is a b***ch with the stock adjusters; I used to spend an hour crawling under and back out just trying to get the toe where I wanted it. I then installed a set of the UPD toe arms sold by Shardul. Using these, I can set the rear toe on both rear wheels of my car faster than I can set up and tear down the strings I use to set measurements. And I only had to go under the car to loosen and then tighten the lock nuts. Worth. Every. Penny.

All above refers to stock. And I discovered when my car started chewing through tires that my suspension was shot; new thrust and control arms with ball joints up front, new control arms and bushings in the rear."

HeissRod

You're not going to see a huge difference using the crash bolts. Where is your camber right now? How far negative?

JoeJErnst

I don't know yet. All I know is my tires are wearing faster on the inside. I have adjustable rear camber arms coming in the mail. I figured using the bolts up front would be better than nothing at this point. I'll know actual values once we get it on the rack.

HeissRod

Are you lowered?

JoeJErnst

No. Until last weekend I was on airmatic, but I just put coilovers on and set the height so there is 3/4" between the tread and the fender. It's about the same as Sport I mode on the airmatic.

HeissRod

Honestly, I doubt crash bolts will do enough for you

BoostedAero

Either you start grinding away or I will lol

Who ever does it first, report back here =D

I have to finish getting a Moto ready for sale before everyone runs out of tax money so I may get beat too it... Take good notes and distances free'd up if you beat me to it Joe

I would bet 1/4" slot would open up the 1-2 degree's of positive camber we are needing... thinking back when I did the upper joints and control arms there was a solid 3/4" of metal there to the edge... hmmmmm

Perhaps a little oval piece of metal in the gap created would keep things from walking back into a negative camber situation... thinking out loud at this point though

JoeJErnst

We could do this "the right way" if someone can find a ball joint that has the same shaft dimensions as our top joint, but is like the lower joint, and is press-fit. Then it would be pretty easy to machine a plate with three slotted adjusting holes and a big hole to press-fit the balljoint.

Anyone have access to a balljoint cross-reference catalog, or something with product drawings of various joints?

austingtir

^^This is more like it. The talk of welding the thing was about as cringe worthy as it gets IMO. And im a welder BTW.... ; )


You'd think there would be a similar three bolt ball joint out there designed to be captured like ours are with enough meat to take a bit more out of it or drill holes in the right place to begin with.

StarvingArtist

This is a great idea if you can do it in steel. I wouldn't trust that extension in aluminium with the thickness it has to be, at least not welds. Maybe if it was plate. Don't forget the wear surface in many balljoints is plastic, so careful with the heat. I only get about 30k out of those upper ball joints anyway.

On the cls the stock front tire size is 255-35-19. Since I drive so much, I've had the opportunity to try a lot of things to save the inside edges. The best thing so far is zero camber and very little toe. The best combination to get there that I have tried is k-mac bushings in the thrust arms, and I slotted the holes in the sub frame for the control arms with camber bolts. Kind of extreme and expensive to reverse, but I would do it again if I bought another car.

In the factory set up, the thrust arm bushings are much softer than the control arm bushings. Way too soft to use in the control arms.(I tried it) K-mac bushings are all the same durometer and I beat the snot out of the two in the control arms in about 20k. To his credit Kevin sent me two more free of charge, but after I looked things over carefully I noticed that to reduce negative camber, all the stress is pounding on the thin side of the eccentric bushing, especially when you are on the brakes. The new instructions said not to rotate them past so many degrees, I forget how many, but i'm lowered a little and didn't have enough adjustment even at 3 o'clock. If I wanted more negative camber it would be pounding on the thick side. Bottom line is stock rubber in the control arms with slots in the sub frame and camber bolts, and k-mac in the thrust arms for me.

If your front tires are skinnier and/or taller profile than mine the wear will be less severe.
My tires are lasting so long now I get bored with them.

JoeJErnst

After doing tons of research on how to move the upper ball joint, your solution is starting to sound like the best approach.

StarvingArtist

I was actually hoping you'd push through. A better ball joint with a steel plate, or maybe a reusable titanium plate would be a great option.

V-AMG

+1

BoostedAero

My High IATs are pushing me to install my Meth kit sooner rather than later

After I do that, I am going to get my cousin (Nascar fabricator) to help me cut some plates with slots for the ball joint to move for camber adjustment... should be an interesting project

I mean, if they suck I can just go back to the stock location =D

JoeJErnst

I haven't given up yet, but I keep hitting road blocks. It would help A LOT if someone could find a press-in style ball joint that has the same stud size as our stock upper. My parts guy is trying to get that info from Moog, but it's not looking promising.

If anyone reading this works at a parts counter maybe you could try matching one up from inventory since it seems impossible to find any engineering drawings for ball joints on the web.

SPatykAMG

Have you considered an aftermarket set for a Chrysler 300. I looked into this a while back and the arm are dam near identical, but I didnt feel like spending the money to find out for sure.

JoeJErnst

What year range Chrysler 300? Do you have a part number?

bbirdwell

From www.pistonheads.com concerning the Chrysler 300 and Mercedes W211:

"Chrysler told us that elements of shared architecture include the short- and long-arm front suspension geometry, the five-link independent rear suspension system, chassis cross-member components including the toe board and the safety cage architecture and load-path philosophy. And if you don't believe them, you can ask Dr Zee.

Meanwhile, Mercedes-Benz confirmed that several individual components were shared from within the DaimlerChrysler Group, including the ESP system, the CAN Bus electrical architecture, the five-speed automatic transmission and several other electrical modules. So quite a bit in common then - despite the decidedly different styling. We suspect that a decade on, though, it's the Chrysler owners that feel happier about this family relationship."

bbirdwell

I would say the Chrysler LX-platform from 2005 onward...

SPatykAMG

Yes it was the 05+

These are the ones I was looking at
https://www.speedlogixstore.com/product-p/sx-fca-01.htm