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Hi folks - just wanted to follow up here regarding what happened to my beloved W211 E63 AMG wagon.
Basically two days after the 2017 AMG Private Lounge gathering at Laguna Seca (on Oct 2), I was heading home after getting a haircut when all of a sudden the engine started stuttering. No CEL or any symptom of anything bad occurring before this. I was able to pull over to the side of the road and then had the car towed to my indy.
The next day my indy tells me that the engine is in serious trouble and he suspects that the engine has hydrolocked. At that point I knew I was the lucky winner of the head bolt issue. I had the car towed to Mercedes Benz of San Jose. The folks over there confirmed it and that it would cost about $10k to fix it. The service advisor recommended that I raise this with MBUSA. I approved that fix and filed a case with MBUSA.
After a couple of days, the service advisor informs me that the starter motor won't run and needs to be replaced. That's an additional $2k. I approve that as well and at the same day, I get a call from MBUSA stating that they will not extend any good will towards this issue because I have not serviced my AMG at the dealership. I informed them that I have all maintenance records that prove that I have been following the schedule service to the letter, but it doesn't matter to them and they deny any good will. So I'm on my own here and my extended warranty has already expired. I cited TSB LI01.30-P-051567 to MBUSA but they essentially blow me off.
The next day I get another call stating that the motor has hydrolocked again and that two rods are now bent and will cost a further $16k to fix. At that point I stop and I file a claim with USAA, but the net result is that this damage is considered a wear and tear item. I asked how much to have a crate engine put in. They can do it for the low, low price of $57k.
Needless to say, I've walked away from my AMG wagon. I really enjoyed that car, but I have to say, I'm really disappointed how AMG just doesn't back their product even when there is an acknowledged design flaw. I had tried to address this proactively about a year ago, but MBUSA policy will not allow that and many indy shops won't do this type of work. In hindsight I should have just had Weistec work on this when I was in communication with them a year ago, but I figured if I just kept continuing taking care of the car, it would work out fine. That obviously didn't work out well for me. Just a word of warning to anyone who owns or considers an M156 E63 - this issue can happen to you even with an open checkbook for regular maintenance (as I did).
I decided to have the car donated to St. Vincent de Paul and I'm going to leverage it as a tax write-off. I'm walking away from AMG (at least for a while) and decided to see what else is out there. I looked at a used Audi D4 S8 and Porsche Panamera Turbo. Wasn't impressed with the Porsche, but I really liked the Audi. However USAA extended three year warranty for that vehicle was about $5k so I started looking at vehicles with long factory warranties - which then led me to the Kia Stinger. The local Kia dealership had a KDM floor model and I _really_ love the look of the car. Very classy. I signed up for test drive as soon as the production models come in (late November). As I left the dealership I was thinking what fun cars come with a manual transmission that doesn't scream ricer...
I ended up with a 2017 Elantra Sport with the premium pkg, 6SP manual, in Electric Blue. It looks exactly like this from C&D:
So much car for the money and just so much fun to drive! I think a big part of that is just coming back to driving stick after over a decade lol. I really missed rowing through the gears. Yeah, it is not nearly as fast as the AMG, but my goodness, this thing puts a smile to my face. The Civic Type R, Focus RS, and WRX STi are just too boy racer looking to me. The ES is a clean, euro design. I'm really liking the design influence led by Peter Schreyer on a lot of the new Kia/Hyundai products. I never thought I'd get one, but the product speaks for itself. Waze on Android Auto is a bonus. If my wife and I like how the Kia Stinger drives, I may pick up a red one soon as well. In any case, it sure is nice to have a long warranty that's for sure. Yeah, it's a Kia, but a true car enthusiast looks at a car for what it is and Albert Biermann's influence on the Stinger and the i30 N is already receiving a lot of praise.
I'm still thinking of getting a Chevy SS as well. Ah, decisions decisions.
In any case, I'm very fortunate to be able to walk away from an experience like this without any negative quality of life to myself or my family. If anyone is considering a used AMG (or any used German luxury brand), make sure you're able to afford it.
Sorry to hear this. Did you ever consider sourcing a used M156 and dropping that in? I see plenty of long blocks on ebay right now for well under $10k shipped. It's a real shame to donate a wagon in that color since they're so rare. I bet they'll just wind up parting it out versus dropping another engine in there. What a waste.
Also I have an SS with manual trans, and it's a fantastic car. Definitely don't test drive one if you're on the fence unless you plan on bringing it home, otherwise you'll just obsess about it for months (personal experience). Compared to your E63 though, the SS is much slower, and its fit and finish is very subpar. Interior material quality isn't horrible in the SS, but it doesn't come close to holding a candle to even a 10-15 year old E-class. Overall, I think the SS is a far better driver's car though, but if you're coming from something German, you might be disappointed with some of the inherent rough edges in your $45k car.
I'd have to source a E55 or E63 used engine. The E55 setup would be fun as hell. Find a crashed one and get to work. I might trade ya for a RS6, it has 90k on it and runs great.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Very unfortunate situation!
How many miles were on the car when the situation happened?
I'm not sure I'm confident that even if the vehicle was consistently serviced at a Mercedes-Benz dealer that they would've good-willed the repair. Who knows.
All the best, I hope that you come back to the AMG fold, but I can understand your hesitation with the treatment you received.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us. Very unfortunate situation!
How many miles were on the car when the situation happened?
I'm not sure I'm confident that even if the vehicle was consistently serviced at a Mercedes-Benz dealer that they would've good-willed the repair. Who knows.
All the best, I hope that you come back to the AMG fold, but I can understand your hesitation with the treatment you received.
It was close to 100k miles. As an engineer, I can understand that MTBF is always difficult to assess, but what bugs me here is the fact that the TSB regarding this has been around since 2011 but there is no proactive course of action to take to prevent it via MBUSA/dealership - which really means that they don't care about these 2007-early 2011 AMG models. But at this point it is water under the bridge - life is too short to be bugged by this. I have lots to be thankful for.
Thanks for sharing your experience and I do feel terrible for you.
I wish there was some recourse as an owner for you from Mercedes or a warranty program.
How about a well reputed Indy that's cheaper than the MB dealership and dropping in a low mileage later model M156 that don't have these head bolt issue?
Very sorry to hear this, your wagon was a favorite of mine on the board. Guess it can happen to anyone, did you ever check the oil after the event? I’m curious if you saw signs of coolant in the oil. Hydro lock is possible with a stuck fuel injector, wondered if that was ruled out? Like you said water under the bridge, I’m glad you could walk away from it, and your right about not getting into these cars if you can’t take the hit.
keep it if you have the room until you find an alternative motor - you can always give it away at a later date, the donation is noble but the tax savings will be minimal, it will be stripped and sold for parts as opposed to a fellow enthusiast who may bring it back to life, definitely sucks but it would be good to get an autopsy done and find out the true cause,,,, 50k for a crate motor is a little excessive - that's probably why there is no good will repairs on these --
I always liked the panemera - not as ballsy as these mercs but a capable car for sure -- good luck
I like the Elantra, but it is a shame you gave up on the E63. It is very frustrating that AMG gave up on us M156 owners, but I would still have invested in a new block for the car (with new bolts) and have enjoyed it a little more!
The three reasons I buy MB's: Safety, drivetrain, and styling. If you remove any of those, MB fails. It is really a shame they do not back their product better. For many of us, cars are a lifestyle. For MB, it seems to be all about profitability. If you don't take care of your customers, your customers will leave. For the first time in 30 years, I'm looking at something other than a Benz.
Someone is parting out a E63 in the classified, $4500 gets you the engine.
I'm sure the OP doesn't want to hear this kind of stuff at this point and has carefully weighed his options, but for the sake of conversation, donating a 10-YO Mercedes with 100k miles and a blown engine seems to make the least financial sense to me when you can get an engine for that cheap. That car is going to go to auction where who knows what it'll sell for. It might sell for $3k, and there's your tax deduction. If really lucky, and there are a few parties there who know what they're looking at, they might drive up the bids a bit closer to NADA values, but highly unlikely.
.....
The next day I get another call stating that the motor has hydrolocked again and that two rods are now bent and will cost a further $16k to fix......
This sentence gives me pause. I'd be asking the dealer some very pointed questions about the hydrolocked "again" issue and two rods are NOW bent. Mightar, can you expand on this? Seems that if they locked up the engine, they own it. Also questioning the starter issue; did they burn it out? Head bolts have very little to do with a starter.
Last edited by rapidoxidation; 11-11-2017 at 02:14 PM.
This sentence gives me pause. I'd be asking the dealer some very pointed questions about the hydrolocked "again" issue and two rods are NOW bent. Mightar, can you expand on this? Seems that if they locked up the engine, they own it. Also questioning the starter issue; did they burn it out? Head bolts have very little to do with a starter.
I would have dropped in a second hand motor after replacing the head bolts. But I totally understand your point of view. I sold my CLK55 as I had enough issues and even though I fixed everything I didn't enjoy it anymore and I started to resent it.
This sentence gives me pause. I'd be asking the dealer some very pointed questions about the hydrolocked "again" issue and two rods are NOW bent. Mightar, can you expand on this? Seems that if they locked up the engine, they own it. Also questioning the starter issue; did they burn it out? Head bolts have very little to do with a starter.
I did bring that up to their attention - their response was that they have no other way to assess whether the fix was actually effective or not without having the motor run.
I'm no mechanic, but I do know that there are not very many folks who have the expertise and experience to rebuild a motor, which was why I would have preferred an engine swap. Since the cost of a crate motor was ridiculous, it would have been nice to see if there was a 2012+ M156 engine available (preferably a black series one from a C63). I did a quick search on eBay to see what was available. I then talked to my wife about what she thought if I have the wagon towed to Weistec and have them do the rebuild and/or swap there, but she was already irked with the whole thing. I can't blame her for that and she's defensive about me spending unnecessary time on this. After being married over 10 years, I can tell you that a happy wife is a happy life lol.
So yeah, if I really wanted to spend more time, money, and energy on this, I could have saved her, but the principle of AMG not backing their own product like this just has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I posted this on the AMG Private Lounge as well - not so much as a rant, but really more of a heads-up/warning to the wider community regarding 2007-early 2011 AMGs with the M156. It really is a shame too because I love the engine, but not having an official proactive job defined supported from MBUSA for a dealership to do is just ridiculous.
Looking at it from a positive light - I just use this as an opportunity to drive something different haha! That said though, it would be a completely different story if someone didn't have to funds to absorb such a loss, so my post here and on the PL is to make sure others are fully cognizant of that.
So did you already donate the car? As someone else said, the tax laws have changed and you only get the actual value of the car that the charity gets. They'd probably just dump it at auction so it'd be a minimal amount. So if you get a 3k value and you write off that 3k, you really got 1k for the car. Better to just sell it private party or get whatever a dealer will give you in its current state.
Anyway, it's too bad you never had the head bolts done. Lots of people do it all the time before selling it. I think there's a debate as to whether you can just change one bolt at a time and it'll cost about 1k or do it the way MB says and do the head gasket, but it'd be more money. Lots more talk about this in the C63 forums.
Really sorry to hear, mightar - when I first looked at getting a E63, I read a bunch of your posts and soaked in the knowledge. I think about my head bolts sometimes when I'm doing hard pulls. I don't understand why there's next to nothing about it on the Private Lounge when I searched.
20/20 hindsight is easy, but I'd think that pulling the plugs and turning the engine by hand would tell you if there was a problem with the engine rotating or having issues with the cylinders filling with fluid. You're being way cooler than I would towards the dealer for them admitting to hydrolocking the engine and bending rods and burning up the starter in the process. Repairing a head gasket or two, while not a "c" mechanic job, should easily be in the realm of their capabilities WITHOUT toasting the engine on startup.
Re: replacing one head bolt at a time and not replacing the head gasket: IMHO that's a really bad idea, because the gasket surface has been compromised with coolant, oil, exhaust gas, or a combination of them. Do it right, do it once.
Last edited by rapidoxidation; 11-12-2017 at 07:07 PM.
It is only suggested that you could replace one bolt without HG as a preventative job. No one would suggest doing that as a repair once it is already blown. It does sound like they caused some of the damage.
11-10-2017, 05:11 PM
