Disappointing track times
10-07-2018, 01:31 PM
#1
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Disappointing track times
EDIT - ADDED DATA LOGS AT THE BOTTOM!
Well ran the E tonight and am kind of disappointed in the trap speed.
Car has eurocharged mid length headers
Ecu and tcu eurocharged tune
Eurocharged lower pulley (believe its a 180)
Truck tank (I did not ice it) next time!
DA was about 2000 and I’m in FL so it’s HOT.
Whats the deal? Why so slow lol
Thoughts?
Well ran the E tonight and am kind of disappointed in the trap speed.
Car has eurocharged mid length headers
Ecu and tcu eurocharged tune
Eurocharged lower pulley (believe its a 180)
Truck tank (I did not ice it) next time!
DA was about 2000 and I’m in FL so it’s HOT.
Whats the deal? Why so slow lol
Thoughts?
Last edited by Drew Durham; 10-15-2018 at 10:04 AM. Reason: adding logs
10-08-2018, 08:35 AM
#5
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I am assuming its pulling timing. The water in the tank was pretty hot after each run.
10-08-2018, 08:37 AM
#6
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10-08-2018, 02:48 PM
#7
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I would highly recommend getting a cheap OBDII Wifi dongle and the DashCommand app for your phone and logging three parameters: IAT, Boost, and RPM I have found that troubleshooting always starts with knowing those values, and for less than $20 you can have them at your disposal.
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10-08-2018, 04:33 PM
#9
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Tune is not your problem. Like Joe said you need to log your runs. IAT, enough fuel, how much timing is being pulled ? 2000DA TO 0 DA huge difference. Wait for better weather and ice it and wait 30-40 minutes between your runs. If there are no issues with the car it will come around. Good luck!
10-08-2018, 09:40 PM
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HEAT! Were you running back-to-back? Regardless, if it's 90F outside, and you are sitting in the staging lanes, you'd be at about 110F+. Then, add a burnout- about 130F. So you're leaving the line at 120-130F. That puts you about 160-180F at the end of the track. Huge loss of power when the timing is pulled. You'll need to monitor you IAT's as others have said. That will answer your question. A good rule of thumb is that every 10F in the ambient temp equals .1 second and 1mph in the 1/4 mile. In high ambient temps that can easily be multiplied by 1.5. This is all assuming you intercooler setup is working properly.
10-09-2018, 09:13 AM
#13
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I would highly recommend getting a cheap OBDII Wifi dongle and the DashCommand app for your phone and logging three parameters: IAT, Boost, and RPM I have found that troubleshooting always starts with knowing those values, and for less than $20 you can have them at your disposal.
10-09-2018, 09:15 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
HEAT! Were you running back-to-back? Regardless, if it's 90F outside, and you are sitting in the staging lanes, you'd be at about 110F+. Then, add a burnout- about 130F. So you're leaving the line at 120-130F. That puts you about 160-180F at the end of the track. Huge loss of power when the timing is pulled. You'll need to monitor you IAT's as others have said. That will answer your question. A good rule of thumb is that every 10F in the ambient temp equals .1 second and 1mph in the 1/4 mile. In high ambient temps that can easily be multiplied by 1.5. This is all assuming you intercooler setup is working properly.
10-15-2018, 10:20 AM
#17
what are your cooling mods? Ic pump heat exchanger or anything else? I was under the assumption that a 180mm or 77mm requires pretty hefty cooling upgrades
10-15-2018, 10:36 AM
#18
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10-15-2018, 10:45 AM
#19
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Given those IATs, your track times aren't bad. If you're over 150 degrees just going from 30 to 85, just imagine what it was going from 0 to 112 after sitting still for a while. At those IATs you're loosing a lot of timing (that's way past the maximum timing cut), and it may start adding fuel to cool it down (which can also cost you a lot of power at high rpms).
You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.
Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).
Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.
Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).
Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
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10-15-2018, 12:09 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Given those IATs, your track times aren't bad. If you're over 150 degrees just going from 30 to 85, just imagine what it was going from 0 to 112 after sitting still for a while. At those IATs you're loosing a lot of timing (that's way past the maximum timing cut), and it may start adding fuel to cool it down (which can also cost you a lot of power at high rpms).
You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.
Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).
Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
You should try with ice and see how much of a difference it makes.
Do you have any kind of upgraded heat exchanger? A trunk tank is nice, but you still need some way to get rid of the heat and the stock heat exchanger is not sufficient with a 180 pulley. There are lots of aftermarket heat exchangers to choose from, and based on where you live, I would recommend also getting a "secondary" heat exchanger to mount in front of the radiator (VRP sells one).
Not sure why people are saying there's something wrong with your tune. There's no evidence of a bad tune. I've heard good things about Tony at RaceIQ, but Jerry at EC is also great, so there's no reason to switch. If you do have a problem with your tune (you would need to log AFR with a wideband to find out), Jerry would be more than willing to fix it for you. Once you get the IATs under control, you might consider getting it tuned on a dyno to make sure it's perfect (you can usually get decent gains over a non-dyno tune). Assuming you don't live near EC, Jerry can do it remotely.
Im going to hold off on the tuning until after i get some colder weather. If the track times are still down ill look into different tuning options
10-15-2018, 12:17 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
IAT's seem normal for your mods. What was the ambient temp when you logged those?
The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.
For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.
For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
10-15-2018, 12:19 PM
#22
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LOL at the people making tuning suggestions without the proper data logs and not taking things into consideration like da etc.
With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.
Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.
Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
10-15-2018, 02:25 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
IAT's seem normal for your mods. What was the ambient temp when you logged those?
The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.
For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
The boost seems low to me. Wouldn't you expect something in the 14 psi range on a 180 pulley? Maybe measure your pulley and make sure it's what you think it is. Or add a belt wrap kit if you have belt slippage.
For reference, my car maxes out at 14psi on a stock crank and 77mm SC pulley, at sea level.
I was expecting to see more boost also. The car does have mid lengths and no cats or resonators however, and i hear this can cause a little lower boost readings.
10-15-2018, 02:43 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
LOL at the people making tuning suggestions without the proper data logs and not taking things into consideration like da etc.
With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.
Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
With your logs above you need to look at your cooling system. Nothing ANY tuner is going to do unless you get that under control. You are pulling a ton of timing for sure.
Make sure there isn't any air bubbles in the system and make sure the pumps are indeed working.
Here is a video of my pump in action - this is with the car not running, not sure if that makes a difference
Last edited by Drew Durham; 10-15-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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