Disappointed with my track result 11.8 @120
05-26-2016, 01:23 PM
#26
Yeah, thanks, with 30 years of racing under my belt.
(Laymen's terms) Reaction time is your ability to watch the light and practice against the light, so if you freeze and then hammer the throttle on full green you already .5 seconds to late. I know it has nothing to do with your trap speed or time. But it helps you launch better and get the tires to the ground for a better or great 60 foot time.
Trap speeds also have to do with shifting, is he leaving it in C? S+ Manual mode? Is the traction control on? Sport? or totally off?
To many factors to mention. Was it a pro tree? 1/2 tree? Did you drive through the water box, drive around it? Brake load? Hold mode? Drag rads? Tire pressure? etc.
I have raced everything from my friends Honda to teach him how to drive, To a 9 second pro-mod that a buddy owns. I have my licenses in 5 different categories and a SCCA ama-mod lic.
Unless you are there watching and logging data and such, it's called bench racing. Yes the OP has a problem, I don't think it's in the power department. Its in the experience department.
You have have a F40 vs. a Honda civic, if the F40 driver is a person with more money than brains, and the civic driver is more experienced, the guess what?, the civic driver wins hands down. Just because you have a 600hp car with a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, Does not mean every time you hit that gas peddle the car will go to 60 in 3.7 seconds.
Rant off
(Laymen's terms) Reaction time is your ability to watch the light and practice against the light, so if you freeze and then hammer the throttle on full green you already .5 seconds to late. I know it has nothing to do with your trap speed or time. But it helps you launch better and get the tires to the ground for a better or great 60 foot time.
Trap speeds also have to do with shifting, is he leaving it in C? S+ Manual mode? Is the traction control on? Sport? or totally off?
To many factors to mention. Was it a pro tree? 1/2 tree? Did you drive through the water box, drive around it? Brake load? Hold mode? Drag rads? Tire pressure? etc.
I have raced everything from my friends Honda to teach him how to drive, To a 9 second pro-mod that a buddy owns. I have my licenses in 5 different categories and a SCCA ama-mod lic.
Unless you are there watching and logging data and such, it's called bench racing. Yes the OP has a problem, I don't think it's in the power department. Its in the experience department.
You have have a F40 vs. a Honda civic, if the F40 driver is a person with more money than brains, and the civic driver is more experienced, the guess what?, the civic driver wins hands down. Just because you have a 600hp car with a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, Does not mean every time you hit that gas peddle the car will go to 60 in 3.7 seconds.
Rant off
Everything else you ranted and raved about is more or less speculation and mostly irrelevant, so let me help..... If OP launched his car and his waste gate opened for only 3 seconds and re-closed, his times will suffer. If he is running and suddenly the ecu senses knock on EVERY run and pulls timing and drops boost, his et and traps will suffer. Either way he could still dyno 600rwhp showing zero loss in power (except for those pesky blips of power loss on the track). Want me to continue???
The only part of your post I had in bold was what I commented about, the reaction time
05-26-2016, 01:37 PM
#28
Senior Member
30 years of drag racing and you still do not know that reaction time has no bearing on your et or traps???
Everything else you ranted and raved about is more or less speculation and mostly irrelevant, so let me help..... If OP launched his car and his waste gate opened for only 3 seconds and re-closed, his times will suffer. If he is running and suddenly the ecu senses knock on EVERY run and pulls timing and drops boost, his et and traps will suffer. Either way he could still dyno 600rwhp showing zero loss in power (except for those pesky blips of power loss on the track). Want me to continue???
The only part of your post I had in bold was what I commented about, the reaction time
Everything else you ranted and raved about is more or less speculation and mostly irrelevant, so let me help..... If OP launched his car and his waste gate opened for only 3 seconds and re-closed, his times will suffer. If he is running and suddenly the ecu senses knock on EVERY run and pulls timing and drops boost, his et and traps will suffer. Either way he could still dyno 600rwhp showing zero loss in power (except for those pesky blips of power loss on the track). Want me to continue???
The only part of your post I had in bold was what I commented about, the reaction time
05-26-2016, 02:05 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
A 2.0 60' is not exactly half a second off the norm or we would have seen low 10 second times by now. The average tuned 4wd 60's I have seen both at the track and online has been around 1.7/1.8 secs (RWD ones are worse). Yes I know 1.8 to 2.0 is an eternity in drag racing, but not enough for a 6 to 8 mph drop in trap speeds
05-26-2016, 02:13 PM
#30
05-26-2016, 02:15 PM
#31
These cars trap 118-120 bone stock btw, in the interest of not loosing focus.
Also the 2012-2013 have the largest power gains on a tune. Even a 4 or 5 mph gain on the traps (should be 8-10mph) from stock would have made me feel like this was no anomaly. However I will reiterate, having the traction control on probably had a lot to do with the issue.
I believe comfort mode (suspension) with sport plus (engine response) and traction control off would yield the best times, but I have nothing to back that up with.
Also the 2012-2013 have the largest power gains on a tune. Even a 4 or 5 mph gain on the traps (should be 8-10mph) from stock would have made me feel like this was no anomaly. However I will reiterate, having the traction control on probably had a lot to do with the issue.
I believe comfort mode (suspension) with sport plus (engine response) and traction control off would yield the best times, but I have nothing to back that up with.
Last edited by kponti; 05-26-2016 at 02:18 PM.
05-26-2016, 02:42 PM
#32
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,411
Received 1,886 Likes
on
1,323 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Maybe he's just making less power and like he suspects the tune is off
05-26-2016, 04:26 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
All speculation I guess.
05-26-2016, 05:41 PM
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for those who chimed in.
Just to be clear, I did brake torque between 1200-1500, S+, comfort suspension mode, 36F/29R psi, traction control on with almost no wheel spin. My son watched from the spectator stand and said the launch looked decent no massive wheel spin. Even with my 2.0 60ft time, I still feel that I should be trapping at around 126mph especially with catless downpipes. As for my reaction time, I didn't care too much for it because it didn't affect the et.
Just to be clear, I did brake torque between 1200-1500, S+, comfort suspension mode, 36F/29R psi, traction control on with almost no wheel spin. My son watched from the spectator stand and said the launch looked decent no massive wheel spin. Even with my 2.0 60ft time, I still feel that I should be trapping at around 126mph especially with catless downpipes. As for my reaction time, I didn't care too much for it because it didn't affect the et.
Last edited by silvers2k; 05-26-2016 at 10:06 PM.
05-27-2016, 02:36 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 201 Likes
on
154 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
the reaction time shouldnt matter that much, as some other have mentioned, if the power was there even with a 2.0 0-60ft you should be trapping mid 120's, not low 120...
for reference here are a few tuned M157's with similar bad reaction time/0-60 ft but trap more inline with tuned power levels (124-127)
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26938.html
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-C...lip-24100.html
and for more reference here is a bone stock M157 that ran similar reaction time as you and similar trap speed.... you being tuned should of picked up more trap speed than a stock car with same reaction time... something is up with your tune not making power
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26391.html
and the fact that your tuner asked if you were a pro driver would of really pissed me off as none of these other guys running ~126 mph on tune only are pros either... i would show him next time all the non-pro's on this forum and dragtimes trapping 126ish
for reference here are a few tuned M157's with similar bad reaction time/0-60 ft but trap more inline with tuned power levels (124-127)
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26938.html
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-C...lip-24100.html
and for more reference here is a bone stock M157 that ran similar reaction time as you and similar trap speed.... you being tuned should of picked up more trap speed than a stock car with same reaction time... something is up with your tune not making power
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26391.html
and the fact that your tuner asked if you were a pro driver would of really pissed me off as none of these other guys running ~126 mph on tune only are pros either... i would show him next time all the non-pro's on this forum and dragtimes trapping 126ish
Last edited by gaspam; 05-27-2016 at 02:40 PM.
The following users liked this post:
kponti (05-27-2016)
05-27-2016, 07:55 PM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
the reaction time shouldnt matter that much, as some other have mentioned, if the power was there even with a 2.0 0-60ft you should be trapping mid 120's, not low 120...
for reference here are a few tuned M157's with similar bad reaction time/0-60 ft but trap more inline with tuned power levels (124-127)
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26938.html
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-C...lip-24100.html
and for more reference here is a bone stock M157 that ran similar reaction time as you and similar trap speed.... you being tuned should of picked up more trap speed than a stock car with same reaction time... something is up with your tune not making power
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26391.html
and the fact that your tuner asked if you were a pro driver would of really pissed me off as none of these other guys running ~126 mph on tune only are pros either... i would show him next time all the non-pro's on this forum and dragtimes trapping 126ish
for reference here are a few tuned M157's with similar bad reaction time/0-60 ft but trap more inline with tuned power levels (124-127)
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26938.html
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-C...lip-24100.html
and for more reference here is a bone stock M157 that ran similar reaction time as you and similar trap speed.... you being tuned should of picked up more trap speed than a stock car with same reaction time... something is up with your tune not making power
http://dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz-E...lip-26391.html
and the fact that your tuner asked if you were a pro driver would of really pissed me off as none of these other guys running ~126 mph on tune only are pros either... i would show him next time all the non-pro's on this forum and dragtimes trapping 126ish
Sorry for my sarcasm but that comment made me even more furious than my poor trap speed.
I just came back from my dyno and I can conclude my theory was right. I'm not making remotely close to what I should be making in terms of power...not even close. Stage 1 tune cars are making considerably more power with stock downpipes. Additionally, I found out my car is running LEAN in low rpm's...and puff the blue smoke.
I'm not a professional driver nor a mechanic, but I know that trap speed is a good indicator of checking how much power your car is producing regardless of the 60ft time or quarter mile time.
I am going e-mail the owner and hope he can rectify this issue. Frankly, based on my experience over the phone and how this guy handled the situation my confidence level is very low.
05-27-2016, 08:17 PM
#39
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,411
Received 1,886 Likes
on
1,323 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Are you sure none of the guys here are professional drivers???
Sorry for my sarcasm but that comment made me even more furious than my poor trap speed.
I just came back from my dyno and I can conclude my theory was right. I'm not making remotely close to what I should be making in terms of power...not even close. Stage 1 tune cars are making considerably more power with stock downpipes. Additionally, I found out my car is running LEAN in low rpm's...and puff the blue smoke.
I'm not a professional driver nor a mechanic, but I know that trap speed is a good indicator of checking how much power your car is producing regardless of the 60ft time or quarter mile time.
I am going e-mail the owner and hope he can rectify this issue. Frankly, based on my experience over the phone and how this guy handled the situation my confidence level is very low.
Sorry for my sarcasm but that comment made me even more furious than my poor trap speed.
I just came back from my dyno and I can conclude my theory was right. I'm not making remotely close to what I should be making in terms of power...not even close. Stage 1 tune cars are making considerably more power with stock downpipes. Additionally, I found out my car is running LEAN in low rpm's...and puff the blue smoke.
I'm not a professional driver nor a mechanic, but I know that trap speed is a good indicator of checking how much power your car is producing regardless of the 60ft time or quarter mile time.
I am going e-mail the owner and hope he can rectify this issue. Frankly, based on my experience over the phone and how this guy handled the situation my confidence level is very low.
What kind of numbers did you make
05-27-2016, 08:28 PM
#41
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,411
Received 1,886 Likes
on
1,323 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
05-27-2016, 08:34 PM
#43
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,411
Received 1,886 Likes
on
1,323 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
05-27-2016, 08:36 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 201 Likes
on
154 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
could be both... tune could be all wrong, or tune could be correct but fuel pump could be clogged/injectors not getting enough increased fuel need through or something else like that, mechanically, to cause it to run lean..... but i would guess tune as most mechanical problems would have already been evident most likely
05-27-2016, 08:38 PM
#45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Peter. I hope this issue gets resolved to my satisfaction. To tell you the truth, I'm willing to walk away and call it a loss but hope that's not the case. It was a BIG decision to tune my car for many obvious reasons (warranty for one). I searched the forum countless hours to ensure I'm doing the right thing and before heading out to the drag strip.
05-27-2016, 08:39 PM
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 201 Likes
on
154 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
only way our types of tunes change is if some changes them or dealer flashes back to stock
05-27-2016, 08:41 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 201 Likes
on
154 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Are you sure none of the guys here are professional drivers???
Sorry for my sarcasm but that comment made me even more furious than my poor trap speed.
I just came back from my dyno and I can conclude my theory was right. I'm not making remotely close to what I should be making in terms of power...not even close. Stage 1 tune cars are making considerably more power with stock downpipes. Additionally, I found out my car is running LEAN in low rpm's...and puff the blue smoke.
I'm not a professional driver nor a mechanic, but I know that trap speed is a good indicator of checking how much power your car is producing regardless of the 60ft time or quarter mile time.
I am going e-mail the owner and hope he can rectify this issue. Frankly, based on my experience over the phone and how this guy handled the situation my confidence level is very low.
Sorry for my sarcasm but that comment made me even more furious than my poor trap speed.
I just came back from my dyno and I can conclude my theory was right. I'm not making remotely close to what I should be making in terms of power...not even close. Stage 1 tune cars are making considerably more power with stock downpipes. Additionally, I found out my car is running LEAN in low rpm's...and puff the blue smoke.
I'm not a professional driver nor a mechanic, but I know that trap speed is a good indicator of checking how much power your car is producing regardless of the 60ft time or quarter mile time.
I am going e-mail the owner and hope he can rectify this issue. Frankly, based on my experience over the phone and how this guy handled the situation my confidence level is very low.
05-27-2016, 08:43 PM
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Very unlikely it's anything to do with the hardware since my car ran strong with no issues in the past. I made several dealer visits to ensure my car was running strong before getting the tune. I even asked the dealer to perform oil consumption test just to be extra safe. Then again, anything is possible just highly unlikely.
05-27-2016, 08:47 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 201 Likes
on
154 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post6800552
05-27-2016, 08:53 PM
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm going to give the tuner the opportunity to respond back before I go down that road. I understand mistakes can happen, it's how they handle it...so far not very happy.
