W212 w/156 an amazing value or probable black hole of $
 

Hello

Long time car junkie and lurker looking for a new daily driver.
Have been watching the value of the E63 with the 6.2 skyrocket. Note: Value to me is what level of performance and quality I can buy at a given $. When I look at the current market I can't see anything that comes close. I know the M157 has massive tuning potential, but I've never liked electrically assisted variable rate steering. The NA motor is also attractive. I know I may sound like a Luddite but I prefer cars that have not had all the edges sanded off.

My hesitation is the potential head bolts failures and the need to replace the cam-followers and tappets. The cars I'm looking at would potentially fall into the affected group. If the aforementioned items need to be addressed it does take some of the shine off of the proverbial penny.

So is the 6.2 the best used car value today or am blinded by the roughly $10k delta and making a bigger deal about the M157 being a bit numb and synthetic?

I look forward to your feedback.

Excellent question

This can start you off

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-2012-e63.html

Peter, thank you.
I had read through this thread and thought I would try and get some current feedback.

Sorry to waste your time, hadn't realize you read through some things

What do you define as black hole?
$10k, $15k in repairs over what period of ownership?

How long do you want to keep it? If only for a couple years your risk is clearly less

The consensus is that you shouldn't buy a pre headbolt E63 and there is tons of reading I'm sure you did on that

Two schools of thought, a) never own an Amg out of warranty, b) put aside $5000 for future repairs and you'll be statistically unlikely to burn through it over the ownership. Also if you have skills in repair you can mitigate much of that cost

Most of your issues may not be drivetrain related ... They may be with parking sensors or distronic or the pano roof... And these are mostly likely to cause the most likely requirement for going in your wallet, while the drivetrain issues are unlikely but certainly can rarely have devastating costs

If you're spending $35-40k on an m156 e63 can you rationalize $10k and some downtime for worst case scenarios?
the m156 that is well maintained is historically a very reliable engine. The car around it is not necessarily super reliable because it's a Benz, lol!

The m156 is more linear in power delivery and does not have the mod capabilities of the m157 for the amount of money spent and it's expensive to mod these cars. A $2000 tune gets you to 700/800 on the m157. The m156 is more primal for sure

Cheers and good luck

Peter, not wasting my time at all and thank you for your input.

While I don't want to waste $ the downtime is what I'd like to avoid.
Definitely would buy a 3rd party warranty.

Sounds like the extra $10k for a M157 is money well spent if for nothing else peace of mind, and giving up a bit of feedback for the massive performance potential is a good trade-off.

Thanks again

I had a 2010 c63 with the M156 engine and currently drive 2016 e63s with the M157 engine. I love the new engine , and I think you will have no regrets. I also think that AMG improved the transmission gradually and this will be a plus

i've also had both M156 and M157 engine and no comparison... M157 blows it away in performance and how it makes you feel when you push on the pedal

in terms of steering, its not that noticeable of a difference to me

the M156 does sound amazing when you start upgrading the exhaust though

Indeed, Peter has answered it well with post #4. Indeed, all those gadgets and electronics are most like what will get you. Cars now are just so complicated that there are so many things that can break down. I am the kind of person that prefer to keep things simple. For example, I would opt for a hand-cranked windows if they are available--seriously I would.

No problem! This is a great debate

Also if you're buying a 3rd party warranty careful of your mods.... As the fine print may void the entire warranty (and third party warranties are about $4000-7000 for decent coverage and terms for an e63)

To the OP. I have the M156 and have had no issues at all. I take good care of her with routine maintenance as we all should do. I plan to keep this car as long as possible and hope to get either my CPO extended past 2018 or I will get an aftermarket. Whatever it takes. I am addicted to driving this car. I love the sound of it. I love the power off the line. I love the cold starts. I love the downshift barks and snap / crackle / pops you get all up and down the rpm range. Goosebumps just writing this.

For performance value there are many American cars that go faster for less. They also offer much higher quality in terms of reliability.

I have a 2010 and the extended warranty runs out next march. It's got 41k on the clock and has been relatively free from issues except for the sun roof that needed replacing. I'm old and smoked since I was 14 so I'm not making any 5 year plans. Thinking about rolling the dice and forgoing any extended warranty. If some of the frills stop working it probably won't be that big of deal as long as it will go down the road.

Keep those fingers crossed for those head bolts. BTW, do you have pano roof?

I do have the pano roof. The wind screen that comes up when you open the roof came loose at the bottom and the roof wouldn't close. They had to replace the roof panel and frame. I was surprised it failed as it has only been opened 20 times in it's life. On a happier note what It would have cost to fix it meant I just about broke even on the factory extended warranty I bought. Do you happen to know at what mileage the head bolt issue usually came up? Any one have a recommendation on a reliable 3rd party warranty Co. Might check on a drive train only warranty.

Unfortuantely, it's not that simple. From everything I have read, there is no way to tell. That means it's a potential time bomb. One way is to spend the thousands and do the prevention by replacing with ARP or updated oem studs. There are also other wearing issues with the tappet, etc in this engine that I wish MB would have gone in and correct them all and turn the M156 into a bullet proof unit.

I have heard mixed reviews when searching for a reliable aftermarket warranty. Yes, a drive train only warranty would be great.

M157 over M156.
You will never regret it.
Power, feeling, mileage... All vastly improved.

Hopefully the turbos will last, though. Some people are waiting to see how reliable this engine is after lots of miles.

If it makes you feel any better, I have 118k miles on my 08 w/M156. I have changed the oil at 5k intervals for the life of the car. As far as mechanical issues, I have had to replace the intake manifold gaskets, I had a belt tensioner fail at 75k and both front air struts. (one at 80k and the other one at 110k) Only "electrical" issue has been the trunk closer and in my opinion, that is more mechanical due to the wires breaking over time. As with pretty much any car, be diligent with maintenance and they should last for a long time.

Good info, how much did those repairs cost? I have seen some high mileage M156 cars. ML63, E63, and C63s over 150K some right under 200K. These cars were for sale, I didn't ask, but they didn't mention anything about headbolt repairs, which would definitely be worth mentioning if they changed them.