Ralcbah

Very cool stuff, and thanks for sharing.

I'm looking into cooling mods, presently. How did you determine the full intercooler upgrade was the way to go vs the upgraded heat exchanger only? Is the full intercooler upgrade what is recommended with the Alpha 7 package?

iownedu

I'm interested as well, as another tuner told me upgrading the intercooler system on a 14+ is a waste of money and won't net any gains.

gaspam

i have heard this as well from renntech and they dont even recommend their cooling kit on 14+ until you go to their stage 2 turbo kit, and even then they told me its really only necessary if i planned on doing a bunch of 1/2 mile airstrip runs back to back

the cooling on the 14+ is actually pretty good

Fairbird

it is pretty good , according to my 3500 logs

Ralcbah

That's fair, but with IATs of 55 degrees C,I imagine there is room for improvement there w/o methanol, etc

You guys seeing same IATs w/ no timing pulls?

gaspam

i generally see around 38C when cruising and 47-49c during short WOT sprints and recovers to 38-40c very quickly.... havent seen much timing pulled on my car

I believe the s-models got an additional cooler on the drivers side

Ralcbah

Thanks for sharing. I don't recover to anywhere near those temps. I'm staying around 50 degrees after several sprints.

BerndV

The AMS intercooler upgrade included an improved primary intercooler, an improved auxiliary intercooler on the passenger side, and an aluminum tank in the fender that holds an additional gallon of coolant. I have seen consistently lower IAT's with this system, particularly on the many long high speed runs I make out here in Montana. There are numerous places where I hold over 180 mph for between five and ten miles.

sdg1871

Ditto

quandary

WOW! Cheers to someone actually driving this car like it's meant to be driven!!! I feel like a felon just going ~90 for a quick sprint

BerndV

Renntech doesn't offer anything comparable to the AMS intercooler upgrade. I agree that the Renntech intercooler product is not an upgrade on the 14+ S model. When it comes to turbocharged cars, AMS has design and engineering expertise that really has no equal in North America IMO.

Ralcbah

Cool deal. Thanks; that helps. Had an email exchange with ams on Friday. Need to have a follow up chat to have some questions answered.

gaspam

renntech offers an intercooler kit for our cars... it was designed for bigger turbos since they found in their testing that the intercooler system on our cars was sufficient for our cars in tuned form and even in their stage 1 turbo form.... they say its really only necessary only once you've gone to their stage 2 turbo kit

in terms of turbocharged car and ams having no equal? come on ... stop drinking the cool-aid just because they have a couple of fast gtr's..... even in the gtr world they are not the fastest tuner anymore (ETS is), and the UGR turbo'd lambos have been smoking ams's fastest gtr in the 1/2.... UGR broke ams 1/2 record by 6 mph....... ams is up there with ETS and UGR, but in no way is AMS the unrivaled turbo tuner gods.... if anything, based on results, they are 3rd

shardul

iTrader: (1)

FWIW If you are on a a budget just add a rear tank and with the stock HE and it will work wonders.

Ralcbah

Thanks much; see that's what I'm trying to figure out...am I experiencing a coolant quantity issue, a HE size issue, both, etc? I realize going for the full system will do the most, just looking into options. If the answer is the full upgrade, so be it. But maybe it's not necessary for my use case.

What level of IAT reduction have you seen with this method?


OP, hope we didn't hijack your thread; felt it was relevant. Kick us out if you prefer.

shardul

iTrader: (1)

Rear tank depending on the size will increase the fluid capacity of the system which will help to begin with. You will have to isolate the intake charge cooling system from the engine cooling circuit. On a car with just a tune and stock turbos I think the stock heat exchanger is very efficient.
Another benefit of a rear tank is that you can add ice right before racing to keep the intake charge in check.

BerndV

Take a look at Renntech's upgrade, it's a joke compared to the following:

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart/...r-upgrade.html

https://www.amsperformance.com/cart/...er-system.html

Regarding AMS vs the rest, notice that my declarative sentence was followed by the modifier "IMO". Between their expertise, their outstanding customer service, their very impressive facility, and the superlative quality of the parts I purchased, my opinion remains unchanged. Furthermore, I was referring to tuners that actually have product offerings for Benz's. Neither ETS or UGR make products for my car and are thus irrelevant to me. GAD is equally irrelevant because they are unavailable for US customers. Weistech would be up there as well were it not for the truly lousy customer service that so many customers have reported over the years. Regarding Renntech, they don't even offer a catless downpipe for this car, and $4780 for a catted downpipe is utterly absurd. Their claim that an intercooler upgrade will not benefit a W212 with stock turbos is simply false. I have experienced an average drop of approximately 10 degrees C when running at high speeds. Lower IAT equals more power, period.

gaspam

not always..lower IATs generally only equal more power if your car is pulling timing or if you can significantly change the density of the air.... if your car isnt pulling timing then lowering IAT's isnt really going to result in more power


now lets say you actually did gain some HP ....The rule of thumb with the average V8 is 1 hp for every 10F drop in intake air temp (above ambient) ... ok so you say you average -10c drop so 50F so lets say you actually did picked up that 5 hp.... but you also picked up weight of the new kit with all the additional metal and tubing etc.... probably at least 25lbs.... so original car weight was about 4300 lbs and tuned is about 600whp (power to weight ratio of .14)... now with your new IC car is 4325 lbs and 605 whp (power to weight ratio of .14).... so you spent $3K to get back to the same power to weight ratio

BerndV

Wrong. Main and auxiliary intercooler weigh about the same, fender tank weighs three pounds, extra gallon of coolant weighs 8.5 pounds. Also, when ambient temps get higher, my IAT delta increases. The ten degrees I quoted is what I have averaged since installation. I was seeing close to twenty degrees on the way home from AMS when temps were in the mid 90's. However, I know from experience that you seem to derive some sort of enjoyment from being provocative and arguing, so go for it.

gaspam

ok lol +11.5 lbs and +5hp still same power to weight ratio (.1395 vs .14) for $3k .... thats $600 per HP, i would of opted for the ams turbo kit for $150 per hp

and that +5hp is assuming your car was pulling timing more under stock IC setup... i doubt that was the case though unless you have logs you would like to share?

BerndV

lol lol

lol lol lol lol

All talk, no action, no spend

BTW, the turbo, intake, and Weistech DP's will go on next spring. What are your plans? More posting?

gaspam

I take it that means you have no logs to back up your claims

and i had an E63 with renntech tune, downpipes and intake before you even had an e63 so not sure how i didnt spend? lol are you saying all the rest of us on the forum that didnt buy a intercooler kit arent big spenders? lol ok

and yeah i will be getting the W4 kit if it puts up the numbers we have been seeing in their instagram (ive been emailing with them and their customer service, zach and anthony,, has been great despite your claims of bad customer service hearsay) .... if not, i will just go with the renntech kit since they will pro-rate my purchase of tune off the cost

weistec is 22K for w4 so I'm waiting to see if it performs significantly better than the renntech kit (or ams for that matter)... if it doesnt, then no reason for me to pay a premium for same results as a cheaper kit

BerndV

Also on order: ESE carbon fiber wheels, Braille lithium battery, Girodisc rotors and pads. Speedriven standalone ECU and AMS transmission upgrades will accompany the turbo.

lol lol lol lol lol

gaspam

you are bragging on how much you spend? make it rain daddy warbucks! though it sounds like you are compensating for something

BerndV

Seriously, what is with all the lol's and emoticons that accompany your post's? Is this stuff really humorous enough to induce laughing out loud? I would really appreciate it if you would refrain from hijacking my threads.