izzy63

Im currently tuned with OE, would the dealerships computer still show my engine was flashed if I took off the tune before I serviced my car or is it just the current state of the ECU when u take the car in?

Astolfo

So the argument here is to make it easier for MB to deny warranty and pass on the risks you took to most of the unware second hand buyer?

shardul

iTrader: (1)

Yes I know the maps are altered etc.
But since the dealers use DAS how can you find / detect the changes with DAS

Astofo just by your post about the exhaust gases we all know how much you know lol

gaspam

no, the arguement is MB doesnt need you to make it easier as they will deny your warranty if they want for any reason as their lawyers got it covered

and when someone buys my car it wont have a warranty at that point any ways (mine expires 9/2017), so how can MB deny a warranty when car wont have a warranty smart guy? lol and when i do sell, it will be advertised with whatever mods i have on it

but nice try on the assumption.... get your facts straight before you try and insinuate that people will do things they havent done

CarHopper

Want to talk about "value?" Just because you mix up a bunch of words in some non sense doesn't mean you added value. In fact, it took me a second to make sense of the above post by separating out words with forgotten punctuation. Which brings me to my next point...

"Your work" is suspiciously a different font, has terrible punctuation, and vocabulary which doesn't match most of your other posts with the same font. So, the amount of "your work" in those thoughts may be limited to "copy" and "paste"

This is the only post anyone needs to read in order to gauge how much you say should be taken seriously. This is a very basic concept, definitely in the forced induction world, that you would've picked up in high school PHY or PHY101 (both of which you seemingly took). The hotter the air, the faster it goes through the turbo, and the faster the impeller spins, ultimately leading to more power. Yes, you have to manage the heat because too much heat would be a bad thing. Just for future reference.

And you want to talk about value... I genuinely think you plagiarized the above and/or at least throw in complex words in otherwise relatively simple conversations. I would like to hear why your "smart" post was in a different font with punctuation errors everywhere when the rest of what you post is generally clean.

Just an outsider here telling you how you come off so what I say should be taken with a grain of salt as well. Not over here with my measuring tape ready to measure... I'm still trying to convince people 2'' is enough to get the job done

Anyways, I'm with this guy. If you want to avoid risk buy another ecu. It's cheaper than most of the mods you'll do to the car and ECU's are easy to swap. Keep your factory one as is, pick up a second ECU that MB programs to the car, and go to town on that one. Just swap when you take it in for service.

Astolfo

First English is not my first or second or third, language. I am sorry if my grammar and punctuation made your brain twist.


I did not talk about the turbo but the exhaust pipe. One would want the gases to cool as fast as it can.

Try to twist what you want.. just like with the MCT adaptation all the genius people said it was BS, and the adaptation works not just for me but for a few others.

The context for this thread is for cars under warranty otherwise why would you care if you get flagged by MB?

CarHopper

Right, cars under warranty. And to keep that warranty, worry free, get 2 ECU's. People here are worried or coming to this thread to see what a tune does to their warranty.

Tuners out there will all say "undetectable by dealer" or whatever marketing ploy they put out there in order to get the sale. Fact of the matter is, Renntech, Weistec, EC, OE, Custom, whatever tune is on there MB can find it if they want.

And, we are trying to figure out how to have our cake and eat it, too. The way to do that is run an ECU that you modify and run an ECU that you don't.

I'll probably take my own advice and pick up a spare ECU at the dealer. I don't want to wait until my warranty is up to mod the car, but I want to keep the CPO and car clear of being flagged so if I go to swap it at MB they don't give me hell.


As for your adaptation -- Here's what you really did. You found the middle ground between just doing the reset on your own and having a true TCU tune. Yours has been altered to suit your car specifically while operating within standard MB specs. People that talk about TCU tunes are wanting to venture outside of the specs the factory TCU settings allow for. I understand you had great success doing that, I don't doubt it. But when that whole conversation was going on you were missing the point in that other members want to really go further than what you did, really crack that bad boy open, and adjust torque limits how we want, not how MB wants.

Your English as a 4th language is better than a lot of people who only speak English. That's what really makes my brain twist.

kponti

Oh really???


Still can't find anywhere I said Renntech was reporting anything or even if Renntech was involved.
I said what I said to alleviate the misconception that you have a basically stock car with stock warranty coverage with any tune, MB certainly doesn't think so! Any tune, Renntech included will still raise a flag, so mod away and stop worrying about warranty coverage especially if you already have a tune.

Savage212

Having only owned the my E63 for a month, I am still learning. I did come from an audi and the "TD1" flag in Audi speak was a way for them to deny just about anything. Much like here there we some dealers handling "non-drivetrain" stuff under warranty. While others were "oh your sunroof broke? well you have a tune so good luck"

As far as I can tell, the AMG is not an inexpensive car to repair. So I bought this one with a MB-warranty the had been extended to 2020. I will be on to another car before that expires.

I'd like to try out a tune damnit! Anyone know how much the ECU costs? I wonder if I can just order one and have AMS or whom ever set it up on the car?

CarHopper

I think an ECU from the dealer is like $1200 (I could be completely wrong, but I feel like I've seen that number here). Dealer will have to set it up.

Savage212

Thats not too bad. So how is that conversation gonna go? Me: I want a new ECU. Service writer: Ok, uhhh why is that? Me: Ya know just cuz.

LOL

CarHopper

Basically, yeah. It's one of those things where people know what is going on but nothing they can do about it. A sale is a sale, money is money, so they'll get you the second ECU.

PeterUbers

Here's a link to ecu replacement cost

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-story-mb.html

gaspam

^This is the point of misconception i am referring to as it insinuates that ANYONE with a renntech tune will already be known by the dealer to be tuned (ALL RENNTECH would include people like me that got tune directly from renntech)... that is not true as they didnt know i was tuned many times i visited when i was tuned as i didnt get my status 8 until they had to remove my ecu and flash it for software update and then I got pissed and told them they erased my tune and then need to reinstall it lol otherwise they wouldnt have known

so, FYI NOT ALL RENNTECH tuned cars are flagged as mine wasnt at least 5 other dealer visits and i have a buddy that is renntech tuned and goes to the dealer all the time and still isnt flagged status 8

also you should change ALL RENNTECH to ANY CAR found to be TUNED , because if they find any brand ECU tune they are going to flag it... stop trying to make it look like its only renntech

but to the point of, if you get your car tuned from the dealership they are going to know you are tuned, well no Sh$t captain obvious lol thanks for the breaking news flash

Astolfo

Just my 2 pennies


2 ECUs will make it more elusive but since now 2 ECUs are tided to the car without a replacement triggered by MB diagnostic they will know.
Also most all the logs do not come or are stored from what most people talk about ECU, they are in an 24GiB R1* NVMe logging facility which is independent of the ECU or TCU. If a parameter is out of specs it will be stored until the next diagnostic.


*32GiB for the GTs/r most F1s have a similar facility with 512GiB where still telemetry gets stored until they pit.


These NVMe modules are almost 2 times larger with the reserved cells used to replace faulty or worn out cells. if there is one part of the systems that is way over engineer are these facilities, not because the car manufacturer wants to spend more money but because this the cheapest commodity hardware that complies with the different regulations and running a nano version of a pretty well adopted OS as it does the TCU, the ECU has a different OS version.

PeterUbers

so I am trying to decipher what you wrote, and it seems that you are suggesting that every single Mercedes-Benz in the modern era remotely transmits ECU Data and other metric data to a central facility where they monitor for signs of abuse and modification.

this to me seems like a lot of data to track for very little cost savings to benz, on the scale of the NSA tracking all of our cell phone calls and our email communications and social media communications. Perhaps you're right, and if so this is a massive conspiracy, on the scale of Snowden

Savage212

I think he's saying there is a different module in the car to store data between visits, I mean it's possible given all the telemetry stored around crash events. Essentially there's black box that may or may not contain information regarding the cars systems.

How ever, I think overall. Even if the data is out of line for "stock" there is no legal way they could compel you to produce the "second ecu" so you could argue it's stock. One could say " i keep a spare ecu around because I remove it for theft pervention and I'd like a second for peace of mind should I lose one" .

PeterUbers

makes sense. However in reading many anecdotal accounts of "dealer voided my warranty" over the 15+ years I've been on these car forums... I've never once read an account of someone hiring an attorney to re instate the warranty or fight the dealer on the void. That being said my report doesn't mean it didn't happen but just that I personally have not yet read that account.

Astolfo

Hopefully this will more clear. As far as I know since this where I started (May 2014) to get involved in car telemetry storage, there is a "file server" for data logging facility is in the car manufacturer's realm (no need authorization from law to access data) and here you have about 3500+ parameters (if I remember correctly) values logged in a fault aggregation mode. Then there is the "black box" (like airplanes) where both the car manufacturer and law have access under crash or property injury, data in this facility get recorded in a circular log.
Every year the car stores more data and more variables, the 2018 models double the amount and this is a pretty well stablished practice among manufacturers.


If matters, I have no problem with tuning and modifying, just a problem with people and companies claiming things not true. I have a p911 and the car only was under warranty when transported to Dortmund, all 2 days from leaving the factory.

PeterUbers

this is more clear, thanks

kponti

Reading comprehension is definitely not your strong suit. You have proved it a few times before, so proceed as usual.

Yes FYI all Renntech tunes are being flagged. Yes there is context to that statement found in the previous thread

CarHopper

Especially if you have your dealer tune the car, which some do.

gaspam

Wrong... like i said another local guy down here and has renntech and is not flagged status 8... reading comprehension is not you strong suit it seems as ALL = 100% ... thus you are wrong since I know at least 1 person w/renntech tune that is not flagged.... myth busted

again, you try to be as vague as possible so you can backtrack, when your intent was clearly biased towards renntech

but yes, if your context was that "all renntech tunes done thru MB dealer are flagged" then I would have no problem with that statement... other than its completely a captain obvious statement.... duh, if you buy a tune from the dealer they will know you are tuned... great info

davidjohnbamber

If you were to buy a second ECU for your car it would require your VIN#. Why would you need another one if you are under warranty? The only logical answer is that you are trying to conceal something, or you're obviously traveling long distances from a Dealership, and you want a spare one just in case of a breakdown. M-B, and other manufacturers by being able to void your warranty for altering ECU's are covering themselves from possible penalties/fines from governmental agencies, and shielding themselves from powertrain warranty claims on tuned vehicles. Think VW Audi, Porsche diesels?

CarHopper

^Again, the "why" doesn't really matter. It's one of those things where people kind of know what is going on but will never be able to prove it. A lot of doubt floating around the 2nd ECU... Give me a few weeks and I'll run two and get my second ECU from the dealer.