PeterUbers

Would that v12tt confer any improvement in performance over the v8tt?

shardul

iTrader: (1)

Look at the GTR, with turbos you don't need displacement to make power.

gaspam

the v12tt has a narrower power band... it would be worse

if the M157 was matted to ZF 8 trans would make it much better

nikon

I wonder what makes you think that? Better spread gearing?

gaspam

which part, the trans? because it doesnt have a wet clutch, it has a torque converter so doesnt suffer the "lag" launch issue our MCT trans does

PeterUbers

Love the zf8 on my BMW

TMC M5

I had a W215 '05 CL65. To be honest the engine was a bit boring. Don't get me wrong, the massive torque was fun. But the engine had no sense of drama, it just had a steady pull to it.

I did a muffler delete and it really didn't change the sound all that much (a little more resonance/drone). I did a tune which brought more power, but the car was so heavy and rest of the chassis with the ABC suspension just wasn't that sporty. The old 5 speed auto probably didn't help that feeling either.

I imagine a theoretical E65 would be a little heavier than an E63. And the last thing the E63 needs is more weight. I think you can accomplish as much power with the M157 without the weight penalty.

ItalianJoe1

Technically speaking, same displacement, more cylinders have more parasitic loss, from drag on rings/bearings, valvetrain, etc. In this case it's SOHC vs DOHC on the M275 vs M157, but in general the v8 will make more power per unit of air pushed into it. The V12 is inherently smoother and has some other neat benefits but for raw power production, no there would be no gain assuming equal sized turbos and such, and it is physically larger and heavier.

TMC M5

One minor correction. The 65's M275 was 6.0L (5,980 cc).

ItalianJoe1

Correct, my temporary retardation kicked in lol.

Obviously a larger engine can move more air and make more power, but that's true for any cyl configuration.

nikon

Have you tried adapting the clutch? I really can't feel any lag in mine.

looney100

If you compared AMG models where both a 63 and 65 were available, (SL, S) you'd see there was no performance benefit from the V12.

ItalianJoe1

Those cars aren't really comperable. The 63 had a 7 speed trans, and the 65 was still stuck with the old 5 speed. Makes a BIG difference, and the 63 has 4-matic, where the 65 doesn't, results in much better traction.

I drove a tune/downpipe W217 S63 the other day, it's absolutely faster than my car up to about 60mph where i'm traction limited, but once on the highway I doubt seriously it would pull away from my CL.

gaspam

yes, it makes the shifts crisper but the initial throttle from a stop still pauses and thinks for a split second before going.... and still not neck snapping launch like tuned zf8 or 722.6 with 3000 rpm stall trq converter

PeterUbers

I just ran a ghibli on way to work today and brake stalled and had instant movement when I let off the brake ...

Amg63-

It won't suffer the lag issue but the ZF trans vs MCT will eat up more power at higher speeds because of the torque converter wouldn't it?

its all a trade off

PeterUbers

all these trans are very efficient ....

Amg63-

But still torque converter not as efficient as MCT

gaspam

most modern torque convertors use a lockup clutch which comes into play at speed which eliminates losses with the fluid drive of the torque convertor

PeterUbers

would there still be extra parasitic loss due to the energy it takes to rotate the torque converter?

gaspam

shouldnt be once its in lockup mode

the mct is a better trans technically, its just hampered by the software that's controlling it at low speeds

Zod

The amount of whine you got on the old 5 speed on the 55k at times was like..

what if we had the 7speed trans from the NA E63. C63
What if we had a DSG
man our slush boxes shift so slow we are losing when we shift
Pitty the 7speed can't handle our torq
The MCT is the beeez wax, it has no converter and can handle all the torq

Fast forward...lag it has LAG omg if only we had a torq converter

There is no pleasing people

The MCT out performs the normal auto, data is there, else it would not be in their AMG fleet!

Let's not confuse peoples frustration with their tuners/ tuned cars and the MCT being bad

chiromikey

Yes, on paper the mct shifts light years faster than our old 5 speed but with MB cutting so much power during the shifts, the gains are not as impressive as they should be.

Amg63-

Why does it cut power during the shifts? Is this on every shift it cuts power and why??

chiromikey

I'm sure is for longevity of parts