What if there were an E65
#1
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,047
Received 2,166 Likes
on
1,522 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
What if there were an E65
Would that v12tt confer any improvement in performance over the v8tt?
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
the v12tt has a narrower power band... it would be worse
if the M157 was matted to ZF 8 trans would make it much better
if the M157 was matted to ZF 8 trans would make it much better
#4
Member
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
which part, the trans? because it doesnt have a wet clutch, it has a torque converter so doesnt suffer the "lag" launch issue our MCT trans does
#6
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,047
Received 2,166 Likes
on
1,522 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Love the zf8 on my BMW
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
I had a W215 '05 CL65. To be honest the engine was a bit boring. Don't get me wrong, the massive torque was fun. But the engine had no sense of drama, it just had a steady pull to it.
I did a muffler delete and it really didn't change the sound all that much (a little more resonance/drone). I did a tune which brought more power, but the car was so heavy and rest of the chassis with the ABC suspension just wasn't that sporty. The old 5 speed auto probably didn't help that feeling either.
I imagine a theoretical E65 would be a little heavier than an E63. And the last thing the E63 needs is more weight. I think you can accomplish as much power with the M157 without the weight penalty.
I did a muffler delete and it really didn't change the sound all that much (a little more resonance/drone). I did a tune which brought more power, but the car was so heavy and rest of the chassis with the ABC suspension just wasn't that sporty. The old 5 speed auto probably didn't help that feeling either.
I imagine a theoretical E65 would be a little heavier than an E63. And the last thing the E63 needs is more weight. I think you can accomplish as much power with the M157 without the weight penalty.
Trending Topics
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Technically speaking, same displacement, more cylinders have more parasitic loss, from drag on rings/bearings, valvetrain, etc. In this case it's SOHC vs DOHC on the M275 vs M157, but in general the v8 will make more power per unit of air pushed into it. The V12 is inherently smoother and has some other neat benefits but for raw power production, no there would be no gain assuming equal sized turbos and such, and it is physically larger and heavier.
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Technically speaking, same displacement, more cylinders have more parasitic loss, from drag on rings/bearings, valvetrain, etc. In this case it's SOHC vs DOHC on the M275 vs M157, but in general the v8 will make more power per unit of air pushed into it. The V12 is inherently smoother and has some other neat benefits but for raw power production, no there would be no gain assuming equal sized turbos and such, and it is physically larger and heavier.
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
#11
Member
#13
MBWorld Fanatic!
I drove a tune/downpipe W217 S63 the other day, it's absolutely faster than my car up to about 60mph where i'm traction limited, but once on the highway I doubt seriously it would pull away from my CL.
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
yes, it makes the shifts crisper but the initial throttle from a stop still pauses and thinks for a split second before going.... and still not neck snapping launch like tuned zf8 or 722.6 with 3000 rpm stall trq converter
#15
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,047
Received 2,166 Likes
on
1,522 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
I just ran a ghibli on way to work today and brake stalled and had instant movement when I let off the brake ...
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
It won't suffer the lag issue but the ZF trans vs MCT will eat up more power at higher speeds because of the torque converter wouldn't it?
its all a trade off
its all a trade off
#17
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,047
Received 2,166 Likes
on
1,522 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
But still torque converter not as efficient as MCT
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: miami / delray beach
Posts: 2,841
Received 202 Likes
on
155 Posts
2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
most modern torque convertors use a lockup clutch which comes into play at speed which eliminates losses with the fluid drive of the torque convertor
#20
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,047
Received 2,166 Likes
on
1,522 Posts
2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
what if we had the 7speed trans from the NA E63. C63
What if we had a DSG
man our slush boxes shift so slow we are losing when we shift
Pitty the 7speed can't handle our torq
The MCT is the beeez wax, it has no converter and can handle all the torq
Fast forward...lag it has LAG omg if only we had a torq converter
There is no pleasing people
The MCT out performs the normal auto, data is there, else it would not be in their AMG fleet!
Let's not confuse peoples frustration with their tuners/ tuned cars and the MCT being bad
Last edited by Zod; 04-25-2017 at 03:24 PM.
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, on paper the mct shifts light years faster than our old 5 speed but with MB cutting so much power during the shifts, the gains are not as impressive as they should be.
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Why does it cut power during the shifts? Is this on every shift it cuts power and why??