M157 owners beware
08-30-2021, 09:01 PM
#51
08-30-2021, 09:15 PM
#53
You most likely have check valves, but you most certainly do not have the latest tensioners.
There was a Old TSB poster here with the old info of SN ranges and part numbers. The newest one increase those ranges somewhere through 2015 MY. MB seems to have tried many different tensioners without success until the latest. 4th times the charm lol
There was a Old TSB poster here with the old info of SN ranges and part numbers. The newest one increase those ranges somewhere through 2015 MY. MB seems to have tried many different tensioners without success until the latest. 4th times the charm lol
08-30-2021, 09:54 PM
#54
Super Member
My SN is 15798160020880 and it is in the range. So, I have updated chain and check valve but not the latest tensioners. The kit is around $450, any one know how much the labor is? I hope it's not a really big job and it's something that an indy can do. Thank you sir.
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OkayThen (09-26-2021)
08-30-2021, 10:00 PM
#55
Not sure, I do everything diy. Passenger side isn't too bad, drivers side is a pain
10-05-2021, 09:10 AM
#56
Super Member
I've watch a video and yes, the driver side, indeed, is a pain. How long did it take? Did you set the timing for this job? i.e., turn the motor, place it at timing mark?
Last edited by dustinN; 10-05-2021 at 09:34 AM.
10-17-2021, 03:25 PM
#57
Super Member
Does it sound normal to you? I feel like there are ticking noise. The oil is almost at max level. I don't know what is going on but I don't hear the rattle noise anymore. Thanks.
Last edited by dustinN; 10-17-2021 at 07:24 PM.
10-17-2021, 04:15 PM
#58
I honestly have to go back and listen to my car in the same situation.
These motors aren't exactly quiet, but I don't recall what they sound like with your head that close.
Initially I'd say that's normal sound
The ones that I've heard that we're obviously defective, only had it at startup, and I was obviously a lot louder but quickly went away.
These motors aren't exactly quiet, but I don't recall what they sound like with your head that close.
Initially I'd say that's normal sound
The ones that I've heard that we're obviously defective, only had it at startup, and I was obviously a lot louder but quickly went away.
10-17-2021, 06:05 PM
#59
Senior Member
i'm writing this thread as sort of a follow up to my previous thread and to give a heads up to other early m157 owners (before 2013)
before I begin let me give a recap.
First off I have a 12 CLS63 with 102k miles on it. its been great up until recently ive been getting a p0017/ p0018 code and the car would take a little longer to crank
didnt think much of it until i did some research and found out it could be serious.
sometimes my car fires up totally normal with no issues
I was in denial of a major issue because I had no other symptoms and usually other people have a plethora of other symptoms such as misfiring and timing chain rattle etc.
at this point i've gotten several opinions and we have concluded one thing for certain. the timing is off.
Fortunately every shop and the dealer tech all agree that I haven't sustained engine damage YET but it is definitely possible if I would have left the issue unsolved even longer to the point of catastrophic failure.
i either have faulty camshaft adjusters or a stretched timing chain, but regardless the valve covers have to come off and itd be foolish to change a camshaft adjuster and not change the timing chain. Mercedes has updated the timing chains to a stronger design after 2012 and also updated tensioners and added a check valve.
the repair cost i'm looking at is 3-5k indy shop and $7k+ at the dealership
Where did I go wrong?
Let me back track a bit to see how we got here. My car is tuned, has been for like 30k miles, but the tune is not the issue. I've kept up with the maintenance and gave her the love she deserved. but this is somewhat inevitable for early m157 due to the timing chain, the tensioners, and lack of a check valve. Most people experience a timing chain noise at start up and are able to get these replaced under warranty early in ownership. unfortunately I do not and never did have any sound. I have been an advocate speaking highly about how reliable the m157 is until now and although my opinion isn't changed much, I want to spread the word to help people avoid this altogether. To begin with, I'm not a fool I bought this car with a warranty on it and even purchased an extended warranty on it. As reliable as it has been, I would still advise anyone to get a warranty on a used amg regardless. I was definitely one of the more annoying AMG owners to the dealership I would pop in to have them check out all kinds of non existant noises hoping to get some repairs out of my warranty. but just my luck. this car maxed out the entire warranty (ended at 85k) without needing any major repairs besides the starter which the warranty denied and i paid $1400. Now we are getting to MY mistake.
When the warranty ended, truth be told I should've done what everyone else does, got rid of the car and got something newer. But I was still in love, I took great care of the car, and I truly felt that it was still the same car I bought 2 years ago. (in fact it was better due to mods) and I was not afraid of reliablitiy issues because its been great, so I kept it. I've been daily driving this car for over 2 years now.
Whats Next?
well its not the end of the road. say what you want but I don't think the m157 is junk because of this repair. It sucks, but it'll get dealt with. Its annoying because the shops and techs ive worked with have implied that I should just get rid of the car and not foot the bill as if it wouldnt be worth it or something. I highly disagreee. a lot of people including myself spend more than that on mods alone. I like to look at the bright side. now I can replace multiple other thiings while i'm in there and even put some meth nozzles into the manifold. also will upgrade HPFP. I'm going to bite the bullet and keep the car. I am really plotting hard on that GT63 I hope to get it in the next few years so the CLS will be more than enough to hold me off until then
How can YOU avoid this?
well the simple answer is to buy a 13+ where this issue has been revised. If you are shopping for a 11-12 or you are wondering if your timing chain is the updated one its very easy to check. simply open your oil cap and look at the chain. if it is the older multi link chain, each link will have I believe 4 smaller links connected together side by side. the newer one has less but more thick links. if you have a 2013+ you may be safe from the timing chain issue but not from the rattle. its important to listen for a rattle noise on start up that is caused by oil starvation on a cold start. this can be easily fixed by adding a check valve and/or updated tensoiners. a much cheaper job and something that should be done under warranty. I wish I had pics to help you idenitfy your chains i know tasos has a video about it on youtube. I'll try to hunt down some pics for reference.
IF YOU DO EXPERIENCE SIMILAR SYMPTOMS its important to know that there is a few other cheaper issues that could be causing it such as :
camshaft position sensors (common issue)
camshaft adjuster magnets (also common)
wire in harness (common)
bad ecu (a little less common)
crankshaft position sensor (less common)
definitely check all of these first. like i said, I was in denial at first thinking that I could get away with replacing cheap sensors for the whole life of the car to resolve my issues. it has worked up until this point.
I hope this info can help all my fellow amg owners out there. Still have a lot of love for the engine. To be fair, I drive this thing like a stolen fighter jet. perhaps I couldve squeezed a lil more life out of it by driving like a grandma but hey I'm here for a good time not a long time.
before I begin let me give a recap.
First off I have a 12 CLS63 with 102k miles on it. its been great up until recently ive been getting a p0017/ p0018 code and the car would take a little longer to crank
didnt think much of it until i did some research and found out it could be serious.
sometimes my car fires up totally normal with no issues
I was in denial of a major issue because I had no other symptoms and usually other people have a plethora of other symptoms such as misfiring and timing chain rattle etc.
at this point i've gotten several opinions and we have concluded one thing for certain. the timing is off.
Fortunately every shop and the dealer tech all agree that I haven't sustained engine damage YET but it is definitely possible if I would have left the issue unsolved even longer to the point of catastrophic failure.
i either have faulty camshaft adjusters or a stretched timing chain, but regardless the valve covers have to come off and itd be foolish to change a camshaft adjuster and not change the timing chain. Mercedes has updated the timing chains to a stronger design after 2012 and also updated tensioners and added a check valve.
the repair cost i'm looking at is 3-5k indy shop and $7k+ at the dealership
Where did I go wrong?
Let me back track a bit to see how we got here. My car is tuned, has been for like 30k miles, but the tune is not the issue. I've kept up with the maintenance and gave her the love she deserved. but this is somewhat inevitable for early m157 due to the timing chain, the tensioners, and lack of a check valve. Most people experience a timing chain noise at start up and are able to get these replaced under warranty early in ownership. unfortunately I do not and never did have any sound. I have been an advocate speaking highly about how reliable the m157 is until now and although my opinion isn't changed much, I want to spread the word to help people avoid this altogether. To begin with, I'm not a fool I bought this car with a warranty on it and even purchased an extended warranty on it. As reliable as it has been, I would still advise anyone to get a warranty on a used amg regardless. I was definitely one of the more annoying AMG owners to the dealership I would pop in to have them check out all kinds of non existant noises hoping to get some repairs out of my warranty. but just my luck. this car maxed out the entire warranty (ended at 85k) without needing any major repairs besides the starter which the warranty denied and i paid $1400. Now we are getting to MY mistake.
When the warranty ended, truth be told I should've done what everyone else does, got rid of the car and got something newer. But I was still in love, I took great care of the car, and I truly felt that it was still the same car I bought 2 years ago. (in fact it was better due to mods) and I was not afraid of reliablitiy issues because its been great, so I kept it. I've been daily driving this car for over 2 years now.
Whats Next?
well its not the end of the road. say what you want but I don't think the m157 is junk because of this repair. It sucks, but it'll get dealt with. Its annoying because the shops and techs ive worked with have implied that I should just get rid of the car and not foot the bill as if it wouldnt be worth it or something. I highly disagreee. a lot of people including myself spend more than that on mods alone. I like to look at the bright side. now I can replace multiple other thiings while i'm in there and even put some meth nozzles into the manifold. also will upgrade HPFP. I'm going to bite the bullet and keep the car. I am really plotting hard on that GT63 I hope to get it in the next few years so the CLS will be more than enough to hold me off until then
How can YOU avoid this?
well the simple answer is to buy a 13+ where this issue has been revised. If you are shopping for a 11-12 or you are wondering if your timing chain is the updated one its very easy to check. simply open your oil cap and look at the chain. if it is the older multi link chain, each link will have I believe 4 smaller links connected together side by side. the newer one has less but more thick links. if you have a 2013+ you may be safe from the timing chain issue but not from the rattle. its important to listen for a rattle noise on start up that is caused by oil starvation on a cold start. this can be easily fixed by adding a check valve and/or updated tensoiners. a much cheaper job and something that should be done under warranty. I wish I had pics to help you idenitfy your chains i know tasos has a video about it on youtube. I'll try to hunt down some pics for reference.
IF YOU DO EXPERIENCE SIMILAR SYMPTOMS its important to know that there is a few other cheaper issues that could be causing it such as :
camshaft position sensors (common issue)
camshaft adjuster magnets (also common)
wire in harness (common)
bad ecu (a little less common)
crankshaft position sensor (less common)
definitely check all of these first. like i said, I was in denial at first thinking that I could get away with replacing cheap sensors for the whole life of the car to resolve my issues. it has worked up until this point.
I hope this info can help all my fellow amg owners out there. Still have a lot of love for the engine. To be fair, I drive this thing like a stolen fighter jet. perhaps I couldve squeezed a lil more life out of it by driving like a grandma but hey I'm here for a good time not a long time.
10-17-2021, 08:43 PM
#60
Super Member
The last two videos posted sound like normal engine noises to me. The timing chain slapping, when my engine had it prior to getting the updated tensioners and new check valves installed, was a louder and higher pitched sound that only lasted 5 seconds or less on cold engine start.
10-17-2021, 09:15 PM
#61
Super Member
The last two videos posted sound like normal engine noises to me. The timing chain slapping, when my engine had it prior to getting the updated tensioners and new check valves installed, was a louder and higher pitched sound that only lasted 5 seconds or less on cold engine start.
I just reread your previous post, you had yours done at the dealer.
Last edited by dustinN; 10-17-2021 at 09:46 PM.
12-15-2021, 08:10 PM
#62
i didn't think this is possible... to have new chain and check valves but old tensioners?? I'm looking at some ml63 now and always looking out for new chain. But still can end up with one with old tensioners?
12-15-2021, 09:27 PM
#63
Super Member
To answer your question, yes, it's possible to have updated chain with old tensioners.
Last edited by dustinN; 12-15-2021 at 09:47 PM.
12-16-2021, 06:06 PM
#64
The chain is very easy to check. Take a look at those pictures in this thread. For the valves and tensioner, you have to check your engine number with the TSB as someone has posted in this thread. If the car had the engine rattle, obviously it didn't have the updated tensioner.
To answer your question, yes, it's possible to have updated chain with old tensioners.
To answer your question, yes, it's possible to have updated chain with old tensioners.
I didnt really notice the 'rattle' its a very noisy engine as it is so hard to tell unless it's supposed to be extremely loud and noticeable?
12-16-2021, 06:20 PM
#65
Anyone have an idea what year would engine 15798160 6047752 start from?
12-16-2021, 07:20 PM
#66
If you look through all the TSB is related to this, potential part number keeps getting updated. It took them several tries over several years to get the latest ones many of us have now
12-16-2021, 08:29 PM
#67
A few of us were having a discussion on one of taos's YouTube videos, it depends on the model, but there are several people reporting their 2015 had the old tensioners, and even one guy claimed a 2016 had the old tensioners.
If you look through all the TSB is related to this, potential part number keeps getting updated. It took them several tries over several years to get the latest ones many of us have now
If you look through all the TSB is related to this, potential part number keeps getting updated. It took them several tries over several years to get the latest ones many of us have now
12-17-2021, 01:20 PM
#68
that's really annoying lol. It's almost impossible to avoid this issue when buying one unless the seller reassures you they've had it replaced I guess. Having said that I have seen a 2015 model with engine number 1579 60 06*** so that should have one of the revised tensioners (hopefully the latest)
Anyway the good news is the tensioners not too bad of a job DIY and they are cheap. According to the TSB its only a noise and causes no damage if left alone... and many dont ever have the problem.
The timing chain is a different issue. it is costly, damaging and very invasive, for me, buying a 12-13 one with an old chain was not worth it.
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dustinN (12-17-2021)
12-17-2021, 01:26 PM
#69
Super Member
Make sure it has updated timing chain. Tensioners and valves can be updated later. If you found the right one that you like, tensioners issue is not a deal breaker, IMO.
12-17-2021, 03:52 PM
#70
OK thanks guys i get it now. All 3 that I've viewed have the new chain. I was assuming replacing tensioners would be similar cost to chain (labour) hence why I was being extra cautious.
As everyone is saying tensioners won't cause consequential damage, but does it cause an oil leak? Or is that something else? All 3 cars have some oil around that area and the 2012 had the most
As everyone is saying tensioners won't cause consequential damage, but does it cause an oil leak? Or is that something else? All 3 cars have some oil around that area and the 2012 had the most
10-09-2022, 02:16 PM
#71
07-2012 M278 with new chain, no check valves but fixed
Germany here. 2012-07 M278 4M W221, has the newer chain version and bought in 2021 at MB Dealership /w warranty. Did know about all the stuff like check valves and tensioners so first start when looking at thw car was critical. She was perfect, signed the deal and had her transported to my county.
Close after the buy, there was chain rattle from time to time, knew about it but never showed up during test drives as the oil needed an hour to really sit and oil pressure to go down.
Went to my local MB Dealership, advised on the TSB and got the check valves including new tensioners under warranty.
Had them print out the timing values to make sure that there was no chain stretch whatsoever, at 45k miles.
Noise never came back, now at 50k miles and she's fine at her 10th anniversary.
Verdict: 2012 M27x + 157 seem to have the newer chain, but check valves were introduced later like around 2014 with the w222 already in the market (last 221s were shipped in 2013 afaik, and only a few c216 CLs were made in 2014).
Close after the buy, there was chain rattle from time to time, knew about it but never showed up during test drives as the oil needed an hour to really sit and oil pressure to go down.
Went to my local MB Dealership, advised on the TSB and got the check valves including new tensioners under warranty.
Had them print out the timing values to make sure that there was no chain stretch whatsoever, at 45k miles.
Noise never came back, now at 50k miles and she's fine at her 10th anniversary.
Verdict: 2012 M27x + 157 seem to have the newer chain, but check valves were introduced later like around 2014 with the w222 already in the market (last 221s were shipped in 2013 afaik, and only a few c216 CLs were made in 2014).
02-24-2023, 03:46 PM
#73
Hey dude,
Very informative post and I can't thank you enough. In a market to buy low miles 2012 CL 63. The car is not driven for some time. Its low miles and it's true. What do you recommend me to do? To start off is not cheap what they're asking for it.
Very informative post and I can't thank you enough. In a market to buy low miles 2012 CL 63. The car is not driven for some time. Its low miles and it's true. What do you recommend me to do? To start off is not cheap what they're asking for it.
07-17-2023, 04:56 PM
#74
Given that the check valves at $90 total and the one-time-use press fit tool is $250, I wonder if there is some kind of alternative or pay-it-forward thing for these tools. I guess I could just smack it in with some firm lumber, but just on principle that seems like a silly amount of money for an install tool
07-18-2023, 07:44 AM
#75
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
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13 s212 63 p30. 03 s55amg. 06 LX470
Given that the check valves at $90 total and the one-time-use press fit tool is $250, I wonder if there is some kind of alternative or pay-it-forward thing for these tools. I guess I could just smack it in with some firm lumber, but just on principle that seems like a silly amount of money for an install tool
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Yakatak (07-20-2023)
