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No just wondering why the m156 made it's way in here. Spent a lot of time on the c63 side of the m156 and really the only failures I saw was because of headbolts but never really anything like this as far as plugs and tune leading to bent rods / scored walls. Not trying to be dickish at all here Peter, I know you've been around.
No just wondering why the m156 made it's way in here. Spent a lot of time on the c63 side of the m156 and really the only failures I saw was because of headbolts but never really anything like this as far as plugs and tune leading to bent rods / scored walls. Not trying to be dickish at all here Peter, I know you've been around.
the gains with a tune on a NA motor are nowhere near what can be attained on forced induction motors. thus, the tolerances are tighter and the risks higher.
No just wondering why the m156 made it's way in here. Spent a lot of time on the c63 side of the m156 and really the only failures I saw was because of headbolts but never really anything like this as far as plugs and tune leading to bent rods / scored walls. Not trying to be dickish at all here Peter, I know you've been around.
Can a burble tune cause this extensive of damage in 10k miles?
Tuner is free to correct me if I'm wrong but the sound is created by unburnt fuel in the exhaust. If they are dumping that much extra fuel to make the ridiculous sounds some of these guys have it would/could potentially wash down the cylinder bores of the needed lubrication and cause wear yes.
Were you running stock plugs? Improperly indexed plugs could melt the piston or running lean.
Originally Posted by TECHNICIAN
Tuner is free to correct me if I'm wrong but the sound is created by unburnt fuel in the exhaust. If they are dumping that much extra fuel to make the ridiculous sounds some of these guys have it would/could potentially wash down the cylinder bores of the needed lubrication and cause wear yes.
Technician:
Does the picture of the damaged piston and cylinder match up with the damage on the MB service bulletin in your opinion? Let's assume an improperly "indexed" spark plug or plug failure on one cylinder would fuel be sprayed with out spark and wash out the cylinder?
Bent rods on other cylinders could also indicate bad misfires as well?
With no background I would assume this happened during a long term high load situation. Something like a " top speed run " . The damage looks to extensive to be a simple, "passing maneuver" or even a " drag race " .
Based on the provided photos I'd say that something with the plugs(incorrect torque, removed and reinstalled but not replaced, etc...) is likely why the piston is damaged yes. I'm curious about the damage to the block though, more pics would be needed to dig into that.
When there is a misfire the injector is shut off to prevent washing the cylinders down and/or damage to cat converter
Based on the provided photos I'd say that something with the plugs(incorrect torque, removed and reinstalled but not replaced, etc...) is likely why the piston is damaged yes. I'm curious about the damage to the block though, more pics would be needed to dig into that.
When there is a misfire the injector is shut off to prevent washing the cylinders down and/or damage to cat converter
Thanks for the insight! Based on the OP's statements it seems there was scoring on multiple cylinder walls. However based on the pictures I would agree with your conclusion that there was an incorrectly installed spark plug. I would summarize that a " knock event " lead to the piston damage, and the scoring likely occurred at the same time or during diagnosis by multiple starting attempts. Would you agree?
Based on the provided photos I'd say that something with the plugs(incorrect torque, removed and reinstalled but not replaced, etc...) is likely why the piston is damaged yes. I'm curious about the damage to the block though, more pics would be needed to dig into that.
When there is a misfire the injector is shut off to prevent washing the cylinders down and/or damage to cat converter
Wouldnt an improperly indexed plug misfire everytime the cars under load? Or could it slowly cause damage over time? I had 2 step colder plugs installed at an Indy last year and just had the Benz dealership remove inspect and torque them to spec because I was unsure if the Indy did. My car never misfired though
Sorry for your loss!! Not sure what happened exactly but with a tune, the tuner should have asked about running a colder plugs. They are only $150-$250 depending on the vendor etc. My guess is this was part of the problem to say the least.
Sorry for your loss!! Not sure what happened exactly but with a tune, the tuner should have asked about running a colder plugs. They are only $150-$250 depending on the vendor etc. My guess is this was part of the problem to say the least.
My tuner recommended and installed oem plugs but gapped 0.022 from the stock 0.034
My tuner recommended and installed oem plugs but gapped 0.022 from the stock 0.034
is this sufficient?
Peter you should be good if that’s what your tuner recommended I originally had the same setup as you and was fine for 5k miles but went with an even colder plug just for piece of mind (NGK). I’ve also been seeing guys mixing 3-5 gallons of e85 into their tanks to boost octane which should also help with knock. I’m just not sure if that will cause fuel system issues in the long run.
Correct me if i am wrong here but increasing octane without specifically tuning for it is worthless. Forgive me if I misunderstood what you were say about adding E85 etc. ...and tuning without going colder on the plugs is frowned upon and could lead to issues.
Correct me if i am wrong here but increasing octane without specifically tuning for it is worthless. Forgive me if I misunderstood what you were say about adding E85 etc. ...and tuning without going colder on the plugs is frowned upon and could lead to issues.
I wouldn’t necessarily say worthless but after the ecu adapts you should see a slight gain I was told these cars tuned can knock especially if it’s an aggressive tune so boosting octane will help, similar to running meth without tuning for it. Colder plugs on a stock car is pretty pointless updated oem plugs will be more than enough.
Makes sense to me but I thought he had a tune without the cold plugs?!? So yea cold plugs on stock car is not necessary. I think we are in the same neighborhood with what we are saying overall.
Makes sense to me but I thought he had a tune without the cold plugs?!? So yea cold plugs on stock car is not necessary. I think we are in the same neighborhood with what we are saying overall.
He did but he had updated oem plugs gapped tighter which for most tuned cars should be sufficient. But his car made 600whp on a mustang dyno which I’ve never heard or seen before on stock turbos must’ve been a very aggressive tune. The tuner should’ve recommended 2 step colder plugs and meth for that aggressive of a tune.
We can politely agree to disagree with the use of OEM plugs on a tuned car...
Since these engines very slightly in performance from factory, I am not certain any "custom" tuner knows the outcome of a tune prior to the end result of tuning even with a baseline pull. With that said, the tuner should have not suggested re-gapping OEM plugs and went with colder to begin with which is what all the tuners have said to me. Moreover, since the cost is around $200 plus the installation fee for colder 1-step plugs, it just makes no sense to use the OEM plugs on a tuned car of this caliber. Again, as an end result, I think we are saying the same so I digress.
We can politely agree to disagree with the use of OEM plugs on a tuned car...
Since these engines very slightly in performance from factory, I am not certain any "custom" tuner knows the outcome of a tune prior to the end result of tuning even with a baseline pull. With that said, the tuner should have not suggested re-gapping OEM plugs and went with colder to begin with which is what all the tuners have said to me. Moreover, since the cost is around $200 plus the installation fee for colder 1-step plugs, it just makes no sense to use the OEM plugs on a tuned car of this caliber. Again, as an end result, I think we are saying the same so I digress.
Yes completely agree with you it’s cheap insurance reason why I went with the colder plugs on my car.
Peter you should be good if that’s what your tuner recommended I originally had the same setup as you and was fine for 5k miles but went with an even colder plug just for piece of mind (NGK). I’ve also been seeing guys mixing 3-5 gallons of e85 into their tanks to boost octane which should also help with knock. I’m just not sure if that will cause fuel system issues in the long run.
Thank you!!
AMS has been tuning the M157 for a while so I trust their recommendation.
I talked Straight to the engineer at Renntech, At 18-19.5 psi, for Renntech’s pump gas tunes, it doesn’t require colder or tighter plug gaps, and nothing to be changed unless you experience any type of issue like misfire, blowout or your plugs are old.
But they do recommended changing the oem plugs 50% sooner and ONLY running OEM plugs from mercedes.
They did mention you can run a oem plug at 0.022 gap if you were to change your spark plugs for preventative maintenance.
Newer oem plugs according to them are gapped at .028-0.29.
But for most guys ive talked to and logs ive seen, if your car is not misfiring and or hesitating, just keep the plugs fresh and indexed properly.
My car runs perfect on 18PSI of boost on stock spark plugs and datalog shows great ign advance.
Some tunes with more aggressive boost and ignition might be different of course. So as mentioned, go by your tuners suggestion
Originally Posted by TECHNICIAN
Tuner is free to correct me if I'm wrong but the sound is created by unburnt fuel in the exhaust. If they are dumping that much extra fuel to make the ridiculous sounds some of these guys have it would/could potentially wash down the cylinder bores of the needed lubrication and cause wear yes.
There is slight cylinder washing, and premature wear of the silitec cylinder lining because of this, both not good of course.. If anyone with one of these tunes was to do a blackstone oil analysis, they would find good traces of fuel in their samples.. Seen many of them. Not saying this was the cause here..
06-14-2019, 11:14 PM
