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Tuned E63s Disaster

 
Old 06-12-2019, 11:44 PM
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2014 E63 S
Tuned E63s Disaster

So about 6 months ago I had gotten my e63 tuned at a shop that has tuned hundreds of AMGs. I put around 10,000 tuned miles on my car before things went downhill. My car has 60,000 miles and about a month ago it was night time open road, I opened it up a little and my car started misfiring and smoking I could barely drive the car. At first I was thinking maybe I blew the head gasket, or maybe a bent or stuck valve. Did a compression test all cylinders were around 130-160 besides cylinder 5 which had zero compression. Brought the car to my mechanic who knows mercedes inside out pulled the engine took off the heads and the cylinder 5 piston was melted. I thought that was the only issue the block looked fine on that cylinder. Went on to check out the rest of the block and it was scored on 6 different cylinders. My car was stock when I bought it, all I have done was a tune and downpipes. I ended up with 6 bent rods and 1 melted piston and a block thats good for nothing. Im not going to bash my tuner on here I knew the risk I was taking, and at the end of the day there is no one to blame but myself. My only advice is to be aware of all possible outcomes, and if you decide to tune go to a trusted tuner. Im really curious what went wrong though. My car was not making crazy power, the car was right in line with every other e63 with a tune and downpipes. Im posting this as a head up to all who are tuned or thinking about a tune.



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Old 06-13-2019, 01:14 AM
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Are you certain the TUNE caused this? How did you come to that conclusion? Just curious.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TexasBenzBandit View Post
Are you certain the TUNE caused this? How did you come to that conclusion? Just curious.
Has been documented with a handful w212's that I've seen. More power = this result. Not going to happen with every motor, but not all mechanical things are made equally. Especially hand built.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:05 AM
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Were you running stock plugs? Improperly indexed plugs could melt the piston or running lean.

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Old 06-13-2019, 02:20 AM
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Damn that sucks man, you can get used engine for~$10,000. This is exactly why I donít want to get tune
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:26 AM
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I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. I’m sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasn’t the tune but it seems right.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:51 PM
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These cars have many documented injector failures, many intermittent that don’t through immediate codes. That’s what I would investigate before blaming a reputable tune (assuming that you used one).
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by shkrelz View Post
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. Iím sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasnít the tune but it seems right.
No. Just no.


It sucks that you had a catastrophic failure, but blaming the tune after 10k miles makes zero sense. There are far too many mechanical variables to rule out before blaming the magic horsepower box. A few of those variables are documented to cause this kind of failure under bone stock conditions. Right above your post is an image of the exact damage you have caused by one of those variables. You mentioned stock plug with stock gap. But if the plug were not properly indexed, same result.

Rule out the mechanical possibilities before blaming the 1s and 0s.




There are more than a few tuned cars here that have tunes with more miles than you without having failures.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:59 PM
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Yep three reported injector failures without CEL on the Forum alone including the m156 engine
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shkrelz View Post
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. Iím sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasnít the tune but it seems right.
I mean it is recommended to run step colder plugs but that shouldn't be what causes a failure as bad as yours.

At the end of the day you should chalk it up to bad luck and the increase in power.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Yep three reported injector failures without CEL on the Forum alone including the m156 engine
m156 pre or post 2012? It really shouldn't matter, and comparing 156 to 157 is apples and oranges. Just surprised the amount of catastrophic failures coming from plugs
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shkrelz View Post
I was running stock plugs gapped to stock spec, I thought maybe I had a bad injector where the piston melted but the injector was good. Oil level was checked weekly never ran low. Iím sure the tune did this my car had no issues. Mercedes Benz of white plains in New York told me they have never seen this car come in for anything engine related. I think that the tune was just too aggressive and did some damage over time. Maybe it wasnít the tune but it seems right.
Sorry to hear you had this happen.

Curious - what dyno numbers did you show when you got the tune and downpipes? Seems for a tune and downpipes most m157 / E63S tuners are doing around 640whp (up or down) so if you were above that then maybe the tune was too aggressive.

But you said your had 10k miles on the tune with no issues (no misfires or codes????) so would assume a overly aggressive tune would have thrown misfire codes immediately or certainly within the first 1000 miles.

Not sure what tuned HP level above the stock HP rating starts to cause engine stress, but l Iíve heard of a few MB Dealers offering 3rd party tunes that they will warranty for the m157/w212 E63 but the peak crank HP has been around 675 HP so perhaps anything above that level is excessively hard on the motor if driven hard consistently.

With that said, it seems fairly rare to hear about any m157 motor issues on stock E63ís as all the reported issues people talk about are tune related (of course there are also numerous tuned E63 / m14Ē57 owners whoíve had no issues either so sometimes itís just bad luck)
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CarHopper View Post
m156 pre or post 2012? It really shouldn't matter, and comparing 156 to 157 is apples and oranges. Just surprised the amount of catastrophic failures coming from plugs

Are you making a point?
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:07 PM
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Did your car ever misfire and go into limp mode previously during the 10k miles tuned? If your plugs were not properly indexed your car would be misfiring and run like crap. Also I had my high pressure fuel pumps go out but car would fuel cut and go into limp mode to protect the motor. Also it seems unlikely that you would have 6 injectors go at once and cause damage to 6 cylinders. I'm guessing your car had a pre existing issue prior to you purchasing it or a really bad tune but I doubt the tune was the issue it may have just sped up the engine failure.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:19 PM
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Now I remember this one..... Not saying anything more

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7582100

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Old 06-13-2019, 10:24 PM
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Also with cylinder scoring like that I'm sure your car was burning a ton of oil prior to it completely letting go. Sorry to see this happen to your car OP check ebay theres some good deals on used motors and long blocks ($8-10k).
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jvakos View Post
Now I remember this one..... Not saying anything more

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...ml#post7582100
Daddyís definitely putting the kid in time out.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:09 AM
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Car was making 600 wheel and 690 torque on a mustang dyno. I’ve had misfires in the past resulting the car going into limp mode but after I changed the spark plugs never happened again. The engine was rebuilt the cars back on the road everything is fine now took off the tune. I would suspect the tune to do this damage unless I just have some real bad luck.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by shkrelz View Post
Car was making 600 wheel and 690 torque on a mustang dyno. Iíve had misfires in the past resulting the car going into limp mode but after I changed the spark plugs never happened again. The engine was rebuilt the cars back on the road everything is fine now took off the tune. I would suspect the tune to do this damage unless I just have some real bad luck.
Definitely the tune. These engines are designed to have up to 583chp (s63). If you add more power of course you add more stress to the engine components. Raising the risk of failure
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:34 AM
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600 whp on mustang dyno is no joke, you should of invested in 1 step colder plugs and a meth kit. But not tune for meth just let it keep tepms down or AMS cooling upgrade. Misfires at WOT are bad. Good luck next time.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Classic777 View Post
Definitely the tune.
+1
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by shkrelz View Post
Car was making 600 wheel and 690 torque on a mustang dyno. Iíve had misfires in the past resulting the car going into limp mode but after I changed the spark plugs never happened again. The engine was rebuilt the cars back on the road everything is fine now took off the tune. I would suspect the tune to do this damage unless I just have some real bad luck.
what did the engine rebuild cost you? a used m157 motor can be found for 10-15k on ebay and would think the motor swap might have been cheaper, but good that you're fixed and on the road again.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:42 PM
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you aware mustang dyno's usually report lower numbers than dynojet.... so that 600 may have been higher if on a dynojet...
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:10 PM
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Again,Sorry to hear brother, i wish we would have met up sooner to get a datalog of your car to have some more concrete info.

This is no question a tuning failure, that was pushed too aggressive on pump gas... It is pretty clear cut, but of course no tuner is going to own up to it. So ahead we go.
Multiple bent connecting rods, melted piston, and another scored cylinder, its pretty clear...

Most tuners in the M157 market use the oem boost by load route for this engines to control boost and now that the weather is getting hot, the boost is also going up to meet the load demand.. (As in the OP/s situation, it is only beginning to get a bit warmer here in the east coast which means more boost)
The aggressive boost and ign advance start to slowly degrade your engine until the inevitable happens. High miles, High boost and high timing, we will see more of this with tuners who pushing and relying on the Knock sensors to retard ign to save it, slowly killing it, or pushing too much boost on pump gas.

I have seen it on a few fellow tuned M157's, high boost, using stock oem ign advance timing!
I have a datalog sitting in my laptop of a fellow members tuned car, the car is consistently pulling timing, and consistently having timing drop outs.. Too much boost for pump gas and falling in love with timing seems to be a issue in the M157 world. I wont name the tuner, but if anyone would like i can DM them the log or post in a new thread.

Glad you are back up and running brotha! And a good warning to most, be careful with the tuner you use.

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Old 06-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
Again,Sorry to hear brother, i wish we would have met up sooner to get a datalog of your car to have some more concrete info.

This is no question a tuning failure, that was pushed too aggressive on pump gas... It is pretty clear cut, but of course no tuner is going to own up to it. So ahead we go.
Multiple bent connecting rods, melted piston, and another scored cylinder, its pretty clear...

Most tuners in the M157 market use the oem boost by load route for this engines to control boost and now that the weather is getting hot, the boost is also going up to meet the load demand.. (As in the OP/s situation, it is only beginning to get a bit warmer here in the east coast which means more boost)
The aggressive boost and ign advance start to slowly degrade your engine until the inevitable happens. High miles, High boost and high timing, we will see more of this with tuners who pushing and relying on the ECU's Knock sensors to ign retarding to save it, slowly killing it, or pushing too much boost on pump gas.

I have seen it on a few fellow tuned M157's, high boost, using stock oem ign advance timing!
I have a datalog sitting in my laptop of a fellow members tuned car, the car is consistently pulling timing, and consistently having timing drop outs.. Too much boost for pump gas and falling in love with timing seems to be a issue in the M157 world. I wont name the tuner, but if anyone would like i can DM them the log or post in a new thread.

Glad you are back up and running brotha! And a good warning to most, be careful with the tuner you use.
I had AMS datalog my 63 for this very reason - excellent post. I had one CEL and I wanted this resolved
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