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As I initiate myself on the W212 AMG platform, I am wondering about the state of the intake carbon buildup so common to DI engines generally. The dealer didn't really have much to say about it - except that they hadn't really needed to do any walnut blasting... but since there are no secondary intake injectors to keep the valves clean on the M157, I am mystified about how this isn't being done. I once had an F10 535i (N55B30 engine) which was in need of such service and the internet was full of advice on it... but not the M157.
I wondered if maybe the state of the intake clutter just matters less on a forced induction engine, but the 535i was also forced induction... What gives? Is intake cleaning required on the M157?
As I initiate myself on the W212 AMG platform, I am wondering about the state of the intake carbon buildup so common to DI engines generally. The dealer didn't really have much to say about it - except that they hadn't really needed to do any walnut blasting... but since there are no secondary intake injectors to keep the valves clean on the M157, I am mystified about how this isn't being done. I once had an F10 535i (N55B30 engine) which was in need of such service and the internet was full of advice on it... but not the M157.
I wondered if maybe the state of the intake clutter just matters less on a forced induction engine, but the 535i was also forced induction... What gives? Is intake cleaning required on the M157?
I’ve scoured this forum and others and haven’t found any conclusive info on if carbon buildup is a problem in our motor. One would expect it since there is no port injection in addition to the DI. Very curious myself.
Same here. It makes me a little nervous frankly. The VERY optimistic take is that since MB took longer than everyone else to adopt DI, maybe they really got the R&D right and minimized intake valve carboning issues. The realist in me says regardless of any good engineering, all DI cars will eventually need intake valve service. Unfortunately, Mercedes position seems to be "leave it alone until you need a new cylinder head" which is a really **** position to take.
The real question, though, is what was asked. How bad is the issue, and what are some recommended (and effective) techniques to clean, and what are the results at the end? It's a huge mystery and it's very odd. Mine has 100k and I would assume needs a cleaning service.
The real world reasons to clean are basically because carboned up intake valves will make the engine less smooth, less responsive, less powerful and probably less efficient. Those are all highly undesirable things.
Same here. It makes me a little nervous frankly. The VERY optimistic take is that since MB took longer than everyone else to adopt DI, maybe they really got the R&D right and minimized intake valve carboning issues. The realist in me says regardless of any good engineering, all DI cars will eventually need intake valve service. Unfortunately, Mercedes position seems to be "leave it alone until you need a new cylinder head" which is a really **** position to take.
The real question, though, is what was asked. How bad is the issue, and what are some recommended (and effective) techniques to clean, and what are the results at the end? It's a huge mystery and it's very odd. Mine has 100k and I would assume needs a cleaning service.
The real world reasons to clean are basically because carboned up intake valves will make the engine less smooth, less responsive, less powerful and probably less efficient. Those are all highly undesirable things.
I think the best route here to take is to remove the intake manifold on a high mileage M157 and just take a look at the state of the intake valves/ports. I will say that Mercedes just have surely designed the system better than say Audi because older Audi V8 engines were notorious for carbon buildup at low mileages. And the thing is, if our engines truly had issues with it, you’d see a lot of people reporting performance loss and check engine lights due to carbon buildup.
I tend to agree with that. These don't seem to be nearly the disaster that some other engines are. This is good. And keeping the PCV system in perfect health is probably also critical. So an engine that doesn't seem much oil consumption should last longer between intake valve cleaning service. But no matter what, they will get carboned up eventually, I think.
I'd love to see some borescope images. Also I fear pulling the intake isn't that easy on these.
Last comment is that if a piece of carbon breaks off, knowing the cylinder wall situation on these, you are probably going to be pulling the engine out. So there's that, too.
Here's an example of why concern is warranted -- it's an M278, but should match M157 (link is at the time for intake open/intercooler remove and inspection)
Here's a pic of the intake valves from my 2015 E63s with 86k miles at the time of service. I'd certainly be interested in a preventative measure to delay the same results on my repaired engine.
Here's a pic of the intake valves from my 2015 E63s with 86k miles at the time of service. I'd certainly be interested in a preventative measure to delay the same results on my repaired engine.
I suppose it comes down to environmental conditions and the fuel you use. My car was developing a misfire and would go into limp mode within minutes of starting. Turned out to have several warped exhaust valves, and combined with the intake buildup, it was decided to replace all the valves rather than spend the time manually cleaning or grinding each of them.
Well, same here but I've booked an appointment with CarbonTek for HHO carbon cleanup. It's what they use in europe.
My appt is on the 12th and will update this to lyk. I have before pics of top of piston.
Interesting concept. This is not walnut blasting nor is it any kind of blasting (like CO2).
I am a little skeptical but haven't really dug into real world results/testimonials. This is the least intrusive form of carbon removal I've ever seen (not including the existing old school approaches like Seafoam). Chucks dislodging has the potential to hang a valve or score the cylinder walls so there's that. Let us know the details!!! I also tried to use their locator and it didn't seem to be telling me where these machines are located, just where I can buy them.
Closest one to me. This seems like a distributor not a garage. Or do zero shops even have this equipment and you have to go to an actual Carbontek facility?
i would call there. That's what i did. I made a appt, they come to my home on the 12th, in front of my garage and complete the service, i have two cars setup for the service, the 2015 e63s and 2012 c300. I was told it's a one hour service each and will pay after the service is completed, cash/credit.
Last edited by cold bud3; 07-04-2023 at 11:39 AM.
Reason: update to details.
Imo it's the PCV causing it. I believe if that problem were fixed there would be no carbon. Just my opinion but I see no other reason for it to happen.
On my last car, '13 E350, I made a catch can for the PCV and it caught a lotta oil, and all of it. Gotta make it yourself if you actually want it to work, store bought do not work. The 350 was easy to make a catch can for, my 550 not so much but it's on my list of things to do.
Maybe one of these days I'll be forced to pull the intake, then I won't have an excuse to avoid cleaning the valves. I was thinking metal rods, basically picks, + carb cleaner and a vacuum. Seems reasonably easy and cheap.
That carbontek thing sounds super interesting. I'm curious because if the Hydrogen-Oxygen were in gas form I'd imagine it would take forever? If liquid then, well, obvious problems. Trying to wrap my head around how this works...
I wonder if they just use water and pump current through it? So many questions...
Peter;
I don't see how E40 would do anything to clean the valves. Now maybe an injector somewhere in the intake to squirt in some gnarly cleaner would. I've wondered about that for some time, but then how much could it really do to remove existing that is baked on? Plus you can't exactly have it running all the time, so I was thinking maybe just a good blast as I shut down, to let it soak. Then I'd have to wonder, once soft, why would it not simply stay put and dry again? I dunno, just thinking.
Well, same here but I've booked an appointment with CarbonTek for HHO carbon cleanup. It's what they use in europe.
My appt is on the 12th and will update this to lyk. I have before pics of top of piston.
My evidence is that solutions that work tend to claim specific, targeted results. For example, walnut blasting cleans the backs of the intake valves. That's it. It is laborious but also proven and safe if done correctly. This system claims to be hydrogen (and I guess oxygen) pumped into your air intake and it cleans your intake valves, pistons, turbo and exhaust. Any chemists? Seems like it would take way more than an hour to safely dissolve carbon on intake valves and I am not sure hydrogen alone can even do that.
I've also noticed that the marketing seems to be targeted to diesel engines which is interesting. Haven't seem anything (yet) that implies gas DI is a good candidate for the service.
Turns out it's not really unaffiliated. This guy works at a garage and his boss at the shop performs the service on a 2003 Nissan 350Z (which isn't direct injected). Oh, and comments are disabled for some reason.
06-30-2023, 04:43 PM
YUP
