W212 AMG Discuss the W212 AMG's such as the E63

Best way to crank for oil pressure?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 05:15 PM
  #1  
EckFe1's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
10 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 236
Likes: 69
From: Was, Cali, 95XXX, now Bavaria 91XXX
993 cab, 2014 E63 AMG 4matic T
Best way to crank for oil pressure?

Car is a 2014 wagon 4 matic with the 157 motor.
I have times where the car sits in the garage for weeks without being driven.
On my 97 Porsche 911, I take out the fuel pump relay and crank the starter until the pressure gauge climbs.
Is there a way to do that with the AMG?
I saw a short video of a obviously home made relay with a push button on top, for engaging the starter to crank without firing. Relay was in the engine bay fusebox.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find the source of this device.
I'd like to get the oil back up to the heads and journals before starting.
Thank you for any advice.
Ed
Reply
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 05:34 PM
  #2  
JCM_MB's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 2,044
From: US
2008 E350, 2012 ML350, 2014 E350, 2015 ML350
Originally Posted by EckFe1
Car is a 2014 wagon 4 matic with the 157 motor.
I have times where the car sits in the garage for weeks without being driven.
On my 97 Porsche 911, I take out the fuel pump relay and crank the starter until the pressure gauge climbs.
Is there a way to do that with the AMG?
I saw a short video of a obviously home made relay with a push button on top, for engaging the starter to crank without firing. Relay was in the engine bay fusebox.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find the source of this device.
I'd like to get the oil back up to the heads and journals before starting.
Thank you for any advice.
Ed
Have you tried keeping the pedal fully to the floor as you crank? In some vehicles this disables the ignition, it will only crank while oil pressure builds up.
Reply
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 06:21 PM
  #3  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
How about a pre-oiler or accumulator? The latter is much cheaper but you have to use it manually and pay attention when doing it, but very doable. I bought one ages ago and I think they $100? So I'd rekon $200 now. Moroso Oil Accumulator.
The preoilers back them were like $500, so I never looked into them, but just push a button and in a few seconds you have oil pressure I never understood why they didn't put them on cars, especially expensive ones. Then when I got older I learned about business, which boils down to one thing; profits.

Another thought is Lucas oil stabilizer. It help keep oil on the parts so cold starts are better lubed. I use it on everything that takes oil, even my generators. Well, not 2-strokes, but otherwise everything.
Then there's moly or tungsten disulfide, which I put on parts when building an eng if you really want it to work, but you can add to the oil to get some bennies. Some is better than 0.
I wouldn't bother cranking w/o starting, there is very little load on the eng at idle. Well, I should say there wasn't before the EPA stepped in. They increased load a lot for emissions but it's still not too bad. I adjusted mine so it's old school, low idle and load, and doesn't wake up my neighbors. That noise was the main reason I did it. But that is an option if you really want

For the starter bypass, there's a relay somewhere that you simply energize with 12V from a little push button. Just have to find it. You can put that inside the car if you want, and even wire it so it can't engage if the ign is On. Sorry I don't know where that relay is, but I'd imagine it's in the front fuse box? Someone here knows, just hope they see this and reply. I'd say trace the wire from the starter but I'm sure it disappears into the loom.

Last edited by Chevota; Feb 26, 2024 at 06:40 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 06:42 PM
  #4  
CaliBenzDriver's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,002
Likes: 6,827
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Originally Posted by EckFe1
Car is a 2014 wagon 4 matic with the 157 motor.
I have times where the car sits in the garage for weeks without being driven.
On my 97 Porsche 911, I take out the fuel pump relay and crank the starter until the pressure gauge climbs.
Is there a way to do that with the AMG?
I saw a short video of a obviously home made relay with a push button on top, for engaging the starter to crank without firing. Relay was in the engine bay fusebox.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find the source of this device.
I'd like to get the oil back up to the heads and journals before starting.
Thank you for any advice.
Ed
I have not had to practiced pre-oiling crank. It sounds good to pump oil before starting the engine. At least the crank bearings.

I guess you can use any piece of wire to jump this relay. It only involves fairly low Amperage, right?
The starter internal relay activates the starter own 900A contactor relay.
Reply
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 07:10 PM
  #5  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
The most I've seen a starter relay draw is 3A, which is the old school Ford ones. I'd imagine the relay is built into the starter and that's fed by a generic little 1" black cube relay, no doubt in the fuse box. Those only takes a few mA to trigger so you can use a teeny weeny little push button.
Just have to find that little 1" relay, assuming that's how they did it. I assume because that makes sense and it's how I've done it when making something, but with MB you never know, it might have some complicated and expensive module to be an On/Off switch.
Reply
Old Feb 26, 2024 | 07:17 PM
  #6  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
Here's mine. Ignore the "N", that was a note to self. M is the starter


Reply
Old Feb 27, 2024 | 01:33 AM
  #7  
CaliBenzDriver's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,002
Likes: 6,827
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
Quick pre-lube at spring...

Great! Now it's tempting to pre-lube unused engines after winter.


Are the chassis computers going to sense the car as getting stolen ? ?


Engine is going to pump up block galleries to crank and up to head favorites.
Thing is the cylinders are still dry until 25Psi opens up squirters with enough oil volume.

So crank a little but not too long
Reply
Old Feb 27, 2024 | 06:51 AM
  #8  
OldManAndHisCar's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 1,357
From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
IMO, step one, get rid of the solenoid....
Reply
MB World Stories

The Best of Mercedes & AMG

story-0

New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)

 Verdad Gallardo
story-2

Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know

 Verdad Gallardo
story-7

Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know

 Verdad Gallardo
story-8

5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve

 Verdad Gallardo
story-9

Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Feb 27, 2024 | 07:22 AM
  #9  
EckFe1's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
10 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 236
Likes: 69
From: Was, Cali, 95XXX, now Bavaria 91XXX
993 cab, 2014 E63 AMG 4matic T
Thank you for the info about the starter relay. I'm going to take a closer look at that. Sounds like the push button would just make a connection to jump the starter. Should be easy to do.
Btw, I unplugged a few months ago and I like the feedback I get from the motor.
Reply
Old Feb 27, 2024 | 07:44 AM
  #10  
JCM_MB's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 2,044
From: US
2008 E350, 2012 ML350, 2014 E350, 2015 ML350
Not an MB video, but oil priming and listen to the comment about idle oil pressure late in the video

Reply
Old Feb 27, 2024 | 09:00 AM
  #11  
kenneyd's Avatar
Super Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 878
Likes: 638
poop
Unfortunately all the suggestions here are just going to be educated guesses at best.
While engine oiling especially at startup is critical, in my opinion, other a nitrogen filled pre-oiler, there is no avoiding it.
In fact I would say that preventing ignition is actually going to be more harmful than allowing it to start. Especially if you're still allowing fuel to go in there.
But even if you're able to disable both fuel and ignition, you're still subjecting the engine to compression, which is putting the load stresses on all the crank and rod bearings. Except you're doing it at 250 RPM where the oil pressure would most likely be insufficient to provide any pressure needed to prevent bearing on metal contact.
I built quite a few engines, both Auto and aviation. The only way to do a proper oil priming is with no compression, in other words we would leave the spark plugs out and turn the motor over. Only then there's essentially no stresses in the motor, and you can properly fill all the oil galleys and bearings with adequate oil.
So in my experience the safest thing to do is just start started normally, what did idle normally for a minute, and then drive it very conservatively below 3,000 RPM until it's warmed up, and then give it hell LOL
​​​​Also if you think of the oil system, and the way it was designed, though it's not like all the oil drains out of all the galleys and the pump. Some of the residual stuff May drain out of the bearings, but it's still in the crank galleys and all the motor galleys, as soon as that car fires up it has full oil pressure within one or two seconds.

Reply
Old Feb 28, 2024 | 06:33 PM
  #12  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
If using the button on the relay the engine won't even know anything is happening. So no fuel, no nothing. Seems reasonable to me, if cranking is the way he wants to do it.
If it were me, especially if after a winder like Cali mentioned, then I'd do pre-oiler. It could be a super simple setup, like use a cordless drill to power it. No need for a fancy high $ setup for once in a while use.
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2024 | 03:30 AM
  #13  
cdk4219's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Simple pre oiler with a drill? Please elaborate this simple plan.
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2024 | 09:38 AM
  #14  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
Suck from the pan via a tube, to little pump that's driven by a drill, pump the output into the oil filter housing.
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2024 | 03:44 PM
  #15  
cdk4219's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Just dump it into the housing? Is there a threaded port in the housing?
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2024 | 04:05 PM
  #16  
EckFe1's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
10 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 236
Likes: 69
From: Was, Cali, 95XXX, now Bavaria 91XXX
993 cab, 2014 E63 AMG 4matic T
I have something like this in mind.
external pump via drill motor will not create oil pressure.

Reply
Old Mar 1, 2024 | 05:17 PM
  #17  
JCM_MB's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 2,044
From: US
2008 E350, 2012 ML350, 2014 E350, 2015 ML350
Originally Posted by EckFe1
I have something like this in mind.
external pump via drill motor will not create oil pressure.

Just be careful with using non-MB relays. Check all connection, numbering, resistance, wiring details. You do not want a relay to ground your FrontSAM ($$$).

There are horror stories with the Air Compressor for the Airmatic blowing up FrontSAM. Here is the summary from MasterLou (he mention R, ML , and GL class but ...)

Last edited by JCM_MB; Mar 1, 2024 at 05:22 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 2, 2024 | 01:55 AM
  #18  
CaliBenzDriver's Avatar
Out Of Control!!
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 12,002
Likes: 6,827
From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
relay voltage spike protection

specially the "flyback diode" that protects the F-SAM from seing the voltage spike when interupting the coil.
It's hard to test which relay has a resistor, which has a diode and which has none.
Use your favorite multimeter to ohm around the coil both directions.

Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Mar 9, 2024 at 08:24 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 2, 2024 | 04:25 PM
  #19  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
Eck; did you really say an external pump using a drill will not create oil pressure? I literally do things like this for a living, fyi, but am open to your theory how it would not work.

Actuating the relay some other way changes nothing in how that flyback resistor works. You could swap the resistor out for a diode to make it work better, but if it really bothers you/anyone then bypass the relay.
I still think it's a waste of time to crank for pressure. Let me put this into your brain: If the pump has to suck air at first, because the oil drained out of the tube, then cranking will take more revolutions to get oil pressure than if you started it. So cranking could be worse than starting it.
A pre-oiler or accumulator is the answer, imo.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2024 | 07:10 AM
  #20  
cdk4219's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
Where are you pumping this oil to? Where does the drill pump outlet go?
Reply
Old Mar 9, 2024 | 07:17 PM
  #21  
Chevota's Avatar
Super Member
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 247
E550 Coupe 2wd (2016)
cdk: Post 14
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2024 | 07:16 AM
  #22  
cdk4219's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
What sort of adapter goes to the oil filter housing to pressurize the oil system? Just dumping it into the filter housing does nothing to pressurize anything. Might as well put it into the valve cover.
Reply
Old Mar 11, 2024 | 07:36 AM
  #23  
kenneyd's Avatar
Super Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 878
Likes: 638
poop
Originally Posted by cdk4219
What sort of adapter goes to the oil filter housing to pressurize the oil system? Just dumping it into the filter housing does nothing to pressurize anything. Might as well put it into the valve cover.
Once again, like I said about. I don't recommend this. It's completely a pointless endeavor.
But if you are determined to do this, you would pump it into the place where you would put an oil pressure sensor. There is a 6 mm Allen plug on the oil pump housing.
That's where the factory says you can hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge, meaning that is in the pressurized side of the system. So if you were able to hook up a pump to that port, and pump oil in, you would prime the motor

Reply
Old Mar 11, 2024 | 03:09 PM
  #24  
EckFe1's Avatar
Thread Starter
Member
10 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 236
Likes: 69
From: Was, Cali, 95XXX, now Bavaria 91XXX
993 cab, 2014 E63 AMG 4matic T
Thank you kenneyd, this makes sense, although too much of an inconvenience to get it all set up.
I'm probably going for the oem starter relay and incorporate a switch to only crank.
Popp the hood, switch the relay, crank for a while and put the stock relay back.


Reply
Old Mar 11, 2024 | 05:14 PM
  #25  
cdk4219's Avatar
MBWorld Fanatic!
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 310
95 SL600
That would work well.
Reply


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:37 PM.

story-0
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know

Slideshow: Mercedes-AMG's new electric GT 4-Door Coupe trades combustion for software, synthetic noise, and more than 1,100 horsepower.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-20 20:08:15


VIEW MORE
story-1
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)

Slideshow: Not every Mercedes design becomes timeless, some feel stuck in the era they came from.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:09:07


VIEW MORE
story-2
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun

Slideshow: Yes, Mercedes built manual cars, and some of them are far more interesting than you'd expect.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-02 12:36:58


VIEW MORE
story-3
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren

Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-29 11:19:28


VIEW MORE
story-4
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

Slideshow: Before curves took over, Mercedes mastered the art of the straight line, and some of those shapes still look right today.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-25 12:05:49


VIEW MORE
story-5
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction

Slideshow: The 190E Evolution II shows how a homologation necessity became a six-figure collector icon.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-22 17:53:47


VIEW MORE
story-6
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know

Slideshow: Mercedes is turning one of its core nameplates electric, and the details show just how serious this shift is.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-21 13:58:06


VIEW MORE
story-7
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know

Slideshow: Faster charging, longer range, and a controversial steer-by-wire system define the latest evolution of Mercedes-Benz EQS.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-15 10:35:34


VIEW MORE
story-8
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve

Slideshow: These overlooked Mercedes-Benz models never got the spotlight, but they quietly delivered more than most remember.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-13 19:35:45


VIEW MORE
story-9
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping

Slideshow: A well-used 1991 Mercedes-Benz 300D with more than one million miles is now looking for a new owner, and it still appears ready for more.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-10 10:05:15


VIEW MORE