When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
No AMG is built in Affalterbach..So, that argument is invalid...I can't believe this nonsense. So much misinformation. I am so glad I was given the opportunity to live in the home of MB and AMG....This discussion is childish and embarrassing...Way to go "enthusiasts."
Oh? Do tell us more then since you are so educated on this subject matter? News Flash My CLK55 AMG. The M113 Engine it is called... The engine is from the AMG Factory in Affalterbach. The E53 engine is not...MBUSA even says "AMG Enhanced" vs the E63 says "Handcrafted Engine"
I am not knocking the E53. I would buy and drive one myself. I am just saying what it is. It is not a AMG. The end...
But also... say you spend $120k on an M5. Now you've got a guy with a debadged 550i with an ///M badge right next to you. That doesn't bother you? People posing to have the more expensive car but not paying the more expensive amount? It's the definition of fraud/scamster. Like a fake Rolex, fake Louis Vuitton purse. Do you not care about any of that ****?
I've got an E63s on order and love that it can be de-badged from the factory now. I opted to have both the side-gill badge and the deck-lid badge deleted. Some like to flex, others don't.
Personally I love the idea of being slightly undercover (I say slightly because of the aggressive lines of the W213) in a family wagon with the ability to torch a vette off the line or even some supercars from just a couple of years ago.
In answer to your question, I didn't mind seeing someone in an M-Performance car (like an m340) when I had my previous M3 (the F80, current gen). If they want to pose, let them pose . I prefer to let the performance do the talking.
Last edited by techno_violet; 02-09-2019 at 02:33 PM.
Reason: edited for clarity
Guys it’s all Mercedes marketing. The one man one engine stuff is marketing. The AMG enhanced is marketing. Ultimately the manufacturers realized they can make more money by badging and packaging their products a certain way, and we the consumer are getting obsessive about what constitutes a real-real product. Personally if I get an E63 wagon I’d debadge the heck out of it and have a sleeper. Got one on a boat supposedly that I may take the plunge on if the numbers work out.
FWIW I think it’s silly the E53 comes with tires that are rated at 130mph especially since they’re advertising and selling it as an AMG car, which is synonymous with sporty, performance oriented machines regardless of what everybody’s personal opinion of it is. Audi S6/S7 is allegedly limited to 155mph and the guys from fifth gear had it up to 168mph. I haven’t had mine near that limit so I can’t say.
But here we are. Want the higher top speed from the Mercedes factory, pony up for the 63s or go a different direction.
And OP as you said even though those 63 cars aren’t necessarily sports cars (they’re really sold as sports sedans), most are ridiculously capable on the track. I’ve had a hard time keeping up with some in my 3,300lb 460hp 7spd sports car corvette on the track. The explosive horse power and all wheel traction give them an incredible advantage.
And everybody calm the F down. Go enjoy your toys and beat the crap out of them and appreciate how fortunate we all are. If not then have a drink on your porch or a bite to eat or whatever makes you happy. I work in a hospital. Have had to give some bad news to people this week. Life’s too short folks.
Who cares - as an outsider i wonder if maybe it is a good thing, don't enough human beings die in gun shootouts and from addiction to prescription drugs without adding rocket cars to the list of potentially fatal weapons?
Top speed in the US is bizarre if it doesn't apply to other vehicles - but real vs fake is a totally separate 'marketeers dream' issue.
Guys it’s all Mercedes marketing. The one man one engine stuff is marketing. The AMG enhanced is marketing. Ultimately the manufacturers realized they can make more money by badging and packaging their products a certain way, and we the consumer are getting obsessive about what constitutes a real-real product. Personally if I get an E63 wagon I’d debadge the heck out of it and have a sleeper. Got one on a boat supposedly that I may take the plunge on if the numbers work out.
FWIW I think it’s silly the E53 comes with tires that are rated at 130mph especially since they’re advertising and selling it as an AMG car, which is synonymous with sporty, performance oriented machines regardless of what everybody’s personal opinion of it is. Audi S6/S7 is allegedly limited to 155mph and the guys from fifth gear had it up to 168mph. I haven’t had mine near that limit so I can’t say.
But here we are. Want the higher top speed from the Mercedes factory, pony up for the 63s or go a different direction.
And OP as you said even though those 63 cars aren’t necessarily sports cars (they’re really sold as sports sedans), most are ridiculously capable on the track. I’ve had a hard time keeping up with some in my 3,300lb 460hp 7spd sports car corvette on the track. The explosive horse power and all wheel traction give them an incredible advantage.
And everybody calm the F down. Go enjoy your toys and beat the crap out of them and appreciate how fortunate we all are. If not then have a drink on your porch or a bite to eat or whatever makes you happy. I work in a hospital. Have had to give some bad news to people this week. Life’s too short folks.
I've removed several posts from this thread and caution members who feel their right to choke a thread with unrelated arguments exceeds our member's right to discuss the topic. Thank you.
One thing interesting is my 2015 E400 sedan has Y rated tires (186mph) no idea what SPEEDLIMITer is set at.
What do 2019 E class come with for tires?
So I think the cheap tires line of thinking cannot be correct.
Maybe they do it so the E63 has a higher top speed and ensure their is a pecking order in the models.
1) The e43 and e53 are not flat out AMG cars they are a milder version that cost less and offer a more moderate ride. They offer an alternative between slow/soft basic E and flat out E63S. They also cost less. They are not bad cars but they are clearly lesser version of a AMG. The E53 should offer more torque & power than the 43 and should be a close to second to the v8 E63.
2) Since they offer not quite at the performance level of the E63 it make sense to limit the speed; that said 130 on US roads is quite fast. If you want a flat out trackable car get the 63.
I respond as follows. That the E53 is “not a full fledged AMG car” is actually not a fact - it’s an opinion. Further, “full-fledged” is an abstraction and a judgment call. So we cannot really identify the fullness of the E53’s AMG credentials, as the one-man-one-engine principle is a nice touch but does not affect the circumstance that Mercedes has brandedthe E53 as an AMG car, complete with all the benefits of AMG ownership including, but not limited to, membership to AMG Private Lounge and a free track day.
The car is branded AMG. Therefore I assume it’s an AMG. Not a partial AMG, a fledgling AMG, or anything else.
So for arguments sake, is there an official technical definition or specification or description from Mercedes as to what constitutes an AMG or is this complete thread just opinion?
So for arguments sake, is there an official technical definition or specification or description from Mercedes as to what constitutes an AMG or is this complete thread just opinion?
It’s 100% opinion.
However, other thread participants will tell you that’s my opinion — even though nobody can produce any written material that says one AMG is “more” or “less” of an AMG than any other car. The “AMG handcrafted” engine versus the “AMG-enhanced” for some constitutes the “real AMG” versus “AMG lite.”
I would say Mercedes defines AMG cars as follows: all AMG cars have factory AMG badges all over the car inside and out, the AMG designation on the web site and in the press materials, and the free track day and supplementary materials that come with all AMG cars.
The OP had asked a earnest "Speed Limitation" question in his original post - and sure the question was packaged in personal preconceived opinion - but heck - everyone has opinions.
The US "Speed Limitation" question has been answered - and for Mercedes or for any other car brand - manufacturer's are required to set production vehicles with speed limit not greater than the speed rating of the tires assigned to that model - I have not seen anyone here factual debate this - so that question is fully answered - right ?
On this thread - sure a heck of a lot opinion - and frankly a good dose of poser bullsh*t from select posters - but it's a open forum so no-harm/no-foul.
Mercedes owns "AMG" as a Brand - and AMG also exists within Mercedes as a internal "banner" for separate/individual research-engineering division as well a separate/individual production division.
I have not heard anyone say, for example, my dealer told me my E53/CLS53 engine is hand-built in Affalterbach...
What Mercedes does with AMG this year - is different that what Mercedes has done with AMG since their purchase - and next year what Mercedes does with AMG will be different from today..
My GTR Green Meanie my guys just finished Saturday wash .. and a aerial representation of AMG Affalterback today ... and 1991 560SEC AMG (pre-Mercedes owned) ...just for a quick comparison of "yesteryear" with today
present day.. for reference.
So for arguments sake, is there an official technical definition or specification or description from Mercedes as to what constitutes an AMG or is this complete thread just opinion?
Mostly opinion. The definition is clear wether people agree with it or not. Any car that is sold as an AMG model, is or was listed on the AMG production roster, has a VIN that gives access to the AMG Private Lounge and (in the US at least) gives owners a free track day is an AMG.
Everything else is myth, hear-say, nostalgia, owners pride or just wishful thinking.
People can lament about the watering down or dilution of the brand but it doesn't change that fact. AMG is in the business to make a profit and the majority of the sales/profits come from the lower-end of the model spectrum.
Speaking of Afalterbach, AFAIK only V8's are build there now. Other AMG engines are build in different locations (Mannheim, etc.)
Mostly opinion. The definition is clear wether people agree with it or not. Any car that is sold as an AMG model, is or was listed on the AMG production roster, has a VIN that gives access to the AMG Private Lounge and (in the US at least) gives owners a free track day is an AMG.
Everything else is myth, hear-say, nostalgia, owners pride or just wishful thinking.
People can lament about the watering down or dilution of the brand but it doesn't change that fact. AMG is in the business to make a profit and the majority of the sales/profits come from the lower-end of the model spectrum.
+1
Not that anybody wants to continue to hear from me, but great post!
In Germany several years ago there was a gentleman's agreement between top brands to limit the top speed to 250kmh.
With increasing consumer demand and increased availability of horse power and torque brands let the speed get unlifted for a premium.
The E63s follows the same path and with the AMG Drivers package, that you guys in NA get for free, the limit then gets lifted to 300kmh. The issue is that this engine and car can do more stock and seats on (Y) rated tires. So they can go above 300kmh. But MB/AMG won't allow it.
I don't know if the e53 is limited because of H/W tires or if it is really some fed rule and/or marketing play by MB to "incentivize" people to get the E63. Either way it seems too speeds are being curbed based on security lame excuses by MB
I think he’s referring to the possible excuses such as tires or model placement/marketing.
If the car can go 155mph as a Euro model, it can go 155mph as a US model. There is likely a very dumb internal “explanation” at M-B to justify the low 130mph limit for the US AMG 53 cars.
Think this is a cure in search of a problem, 130 is faster than I will drive on any US road.
Faster than you will drive, yes.
Some people enjoy European delivery, track days, and private high speed use. Top speeds of 155mph for European cars have been, as tonecas pointed out above in post #119, the standard for years on the handshake European deal.
Some people enjoy European delivery, track days, and private high speed use. Top speeds of 155mph for European cars have been, as tonecas pointed out above in post #119, the standard for years on the handshake European deal.
You need to break in the engine so even on European delivery it is hard to believe that 130 is an issue. What USA tracks and private roads are designed to allow (design limit) speeds above 130?
2020 Huracan EVO AWD - 2022 GLE 63 S Coupe - 2023 C63 S Coupe -
Originally Posted by Dunga
Guys it’s all Mercedes marketing. The one man one engine stuff is marketing. The AMG enhanced is marketing. Ultimately the manufacturers realized they can make more money by badging and packaging their products a certain way, and we the consumer are getting obsessive about what constitutes a real-real product. Personally if I get an E63 wagon I’d debadge the heck out of it and have a sleeper. Got one on a boat supposedly that I may take the plunge on if the numbers work out.
FWIW I think it’s silly the E53 comes with tires that are rated at 130mph especially since they’re advertising and selling it as an AMG car, which is synonymous with sporty, performance oriented machines regardless of what everybody’s personal opinion of it is. Audi S6/S7 is allegedly limited to 155mph and the guys from fifth gear had it up to 168mph. I haven’t had mine near that limit so I can’t say.
But here we are. Want the higher top speed from the Mercedes factory, pony up for the 63s or go a different direction.
And OP as you said even though those 63 cars aren’t necessarily sports cars (they’re really sold as sports sedans), most are ridiculously capable on the track. I’ve had a hard time keeping up with some in my 3,300lb 460hp 7spd sports car corvette on the track. The explosive horse power and all wheel traction give them an incredible advantage.
And everybody calm the F down. Go enjoy your toys and beat the crap out of them and appreciate how fortunate we all are. If not then have a drink on your porch or a bite to eat or whatever makes you happy. I work in a hospital. Have had to give some bad news to people this week. Life’s too short folks.
It is about MB marketing - yes. So the big question is why? There is always a motive attached to the question why. It's about customer loyalty. In today's marketplace you want to do that at a very young age. That's why the C class is the biggest seller in the companies history. It is for lack of a better term the "gateway drug" to MB. By capturing the younger buyers and getting them loyal to the brand. MB knows as they age and make more money. They will become/stay loyal to the brand and buy their more expensive cars. They simply did the same thing by making the non V8 AMG's. MB made them less expensive to capture that market. They figure a good portion of them most likely will end up buying 63's or some other MB product.
It's a smart move, because Audi/BMW and others are doing it as well. If MB didn't - they would lose that market share. Now that Audi/BMW customer may become a life long customer of Audi/BMW. Thus MB losing sales on higher end models as these customers age and are now loyal to another brand. Their logic and thinking makes total sense. If you look around a lot of advertising is geared towards the younger generation. These are the people companies want to acquire the most and turn into lifelong customers. They're not necessarily too concerned about marketing to their existing loyal customer base. They're already loyal. They just focus on keeping them happy. I'm sure MB knows what they're doing. They seem pretty successful to me.
02-08-2019, 09:06 PM
. I prefer to let the performance do the talking.
