bugnuker

Hey there everyone,

I currently am in a 2007 CLS550. It is my first Mercedes, and I've absolutely loved it.

During the time I'v owned it, I got an ECU tune, lowered the car and a few other little things (trunk spoiler, etc).

I've put 100k miles on it in the time I've had it. Overall, the car has been pretty reliable. I've never been stranded, and the car has never had any major power train issues. I've had MAJOR problems with suspension, but it seems par for the course with these cars.

So the Mercedes bug has bitten, and I want something more. AMG seems to be a really good answer.

But I just wanted to post here and see what people thought about the 2012 - 2013 CLS63 AMG. (I'll be buying used).

My main concern with this car is the turbos. I've never had a turbo engine, mainly because I am afraid of the life and reliability of the turbos. I drive my cars hard, and I plan to drive the CLS63 hard as well.

How is the lifetime of these turbos? Is there a warranty one could/should get to maybe help cover any possible issues?

Should I plan on replacing the turbos at a certain mileage point?

How are the air springs with this new CLS?

I have so many questions, I wish I could find someone who has one and I could talk to them about it. Would love to know more about the sport modes, how they differ from the W219 (separate controls for transmission and suspension).

anyways, if anyone can give me some heads up, any info at all, i'd be very appreciative.

Thanks!

-Shane

quandary

Glad you're considering a CLS63 AMG, it's a great car. I've been happy with mine for the 10k miles or so I've owned it (purchased CPO @ 15k).

I have not heard of turbo issues on the W218. I am interested as to why this is your main area of concern as opposed to any of the other drivetrain components. I don't think the W218 CLS63s have been driven long enough for people to determine which parts need to be replaced generally at which mileage, and if such a list has been composed, I'm not aware of it. That brings up another overarching concept. The problem with the W218, and Mercedes in general, is the big lack of community involvement compared to Audi and BMW. There are plenty of people driving MB, but the demographic isn't one that usually finds their way onto a community forum.

To my knowledge the 2012-2014s do still have occasional suspension issues. This is probably the most frequent complaint I've read about. I've only read about people getting it replaced under warranty, though; no idea what the cost would be. Keep in mind the CLS is on a hybrid suspension; front is classic springs while the rear is on air. Peoples' troubles have been with the air system in the rear.

I haven't driven W219 so I can't speak to sport modes, but the transmission selector has 4 modes: C, S, S+, M. (C)omfort is fairly docile, great for point A to B. (S)port is a lively ride but it won't snap your neck. (S+)port turns the car into borderline ridiculous territory in terms of how touchy the throttle is. (M)anual seems to be equivalent to S or S+, but the car will not auto shift for you, you can bounce off the redline if that's what you want to do. If you use the paddles in C/S/S+ without being in M mode, the car will eventually shift for you.

The MCT transmission in this car will make ANY driving/transmission mode feel as if it has slight hesitation compared to a traditional transmission. You get used to the 'lag' after awhile but I think the addition of a SprintBooster or PedalBox is nearly mandatory with these cars. That's my only complaint, throttle response. SprintBooster is what I have, and it makes the drive much better, but the flipside is the throttle is overly touchy in S+ and due to the fact you have a third party interface in your pedal, it makes the pedal sort of erratic at times. So perhaps S+ isn't as touchy for everyone as it is for me since I use a SprintBooster. I'll let someone else chime in about suspension modes, or you can google around.

Since you said you will be new to AMG, I would highly recommend you consider buying CPO, or possibly 3rd party with an amazing third party warranty but I'm guessing many of these warranties exclude AMG. AMG parts are very expensive and so is MB labor.

Overall, it's a fantastic car. It's incredibly fast, and can get stupid fast if you tune it. I am not tuning mine because I have no interest in replacing any powertrain components outside of my warranty - too expensive with AMG. The biggest draw is the transmission behavior. If you can test drive one and it doesn't bother you, then I think you will be completely satisfied.

bugnuker

Thank you for your reply!

The reason the turbos are a slight concern for me are from past experiences and things I've read, heard, etc. Those turbos are spinning VERY fast. The bearings on turbos are notorious for going out. If a turbo does fail, it is pretty catastrophic and could destroy many other parts. I love the power turbos make. I am not one of those guys that has to have a NA motor. I just feel a NA motor will be a bit more reliable for a driver who pushes the car hard even on everyday drives. I know the car is only 5 years old at this point, so we'll probably start noticing if people are having issues. The other thing is the tune. I would love to tune the car (I think I can drive it without tune for a year or two, then turn it. I'm in California near OE tuning and I plan to just have them bench flash the ECU.) With a Tune in mind, I'm wondering how the turbos are dealing with that, and if the life of the turbos are being affected or not.

As far as suspension - I did not know the front was classic coil overs. My 2007 has air suspension all around. While I love it, it is a love/hate relationship due to all the issues I keep having. With the front being coil overs (nor air) - how does the CLS63 AMG have an active suspension? What is being uses to firm up the front? Does the car lower like the W219? (sport mode would lower the car, and the car has a raise mode to go over rough road). Is it not as easy to lower the W218 due to this?

If the suspension has multiple modes, is this controlled separately from the transmission/thorrtle control?

As far as SprintBooster, I've never heard of it. I'll have to check it out.

As far as AMG parts - What is different compared to the 550? For example, I know the entire motor is different, but from what I've read (limited info) the transmission is the same, and may other things are the same. So when we're talking AMG parts, for example, if I have an Control arm needing replaced, is it really different from the 550?

Thanks again for your reply!!!

-Shane

quandary

Hmm, there are no complaints about the turbos that I am aware of. I'm sure AMG considered this in their engineering, though. I believe these engines are built very strong. We have seen no turbo or engine failures, even among tuned people. If you want to do some research of your own, the engine in this car and its shared platforms is called the M157. The weak link seems to be the transmission, and that's only after power is added. One person snapped an output shaft but he was pushing way more power than most people (I believe he upgraded turbos, downpipes, etc., "stage 4"+).

Suspension - I'm not sure how it works in the front but the ride changes very noticeably upon using the suspension selector. I suspect some dampening in the front end is electronically controlled. In the rear, it does lower the vehicle slightly in S/S+. S+, to my knowledge, doesn't lower further than S, but further restricts dampening. It REALLY tightens up the ride. This car is like a train on rails.

AMG parts - no idea how it compares to 550, I've never tried to compare prices. But the M157 to my knowledge is only available on AMG vehicles, so anything engine/powertrain related will have the premium AMG tag attached to it. Many accessories (e.g. cooling) were customized or beefed up for AMG. The transmission is almost certainly not identical to the one in the 550, I would be very surprised if that was the case. Control arm - the suspension in the AMG is definitely different than the one in the 550, so it depends on which part you mean - control arm, it may be different, I would think it is given the very different ride setup.

bugnuker

I just did some checking on this, as I was curious to see what is really different.

So far, I've found the transmissions are a different part number, but they differ in cost by less than 100.00 bucks (7800~ for each).

The suspension struts for front are the same for a CLS400, CLS63 and CLS550 (http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/Merced...183206613.html) - Interestingly, the years are a bit strange. See Below:

Mercedes CLS400 RWD Base 2015, 2016
Mercedes CLS550 RWD Base 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Mercedes CLS63 AMG Base 2012, 2013

Many of the parts are shared. The power train is where the main differences seem to be. Brakes are different. But over all, it seems like it would be in the same ballpark as non-AMG when dealing with non-power train stuff.

For reference, I've spent well over 3000.00 in suspension for my CLS550, and those are using Arnott aftermarket air springs.

Also, while the front suspension on the W218 is coilover for the springs, it appears to still be using air shocks for dampening, and this would be electronically controlled, just like on the W219. Only difference seems that instead of air springs to control ride height, they just went coilover and you no longer can control ride height in the front. The rest of the air suspension (AirMatic) concept, it seems, is in play with the W218.

I've been buried in websites, documents, forums, etc, trying to learn anything and everything I can. If you see anything wrong or can correct me on something, please let me know.


Thanks again for your reply!! I want this car so bad, but trying to find a good deal and CPO is hard on a 2012/2013. I did find a 2012 CPO. We'll see

hyperion667

I've had my CLS63PP since March of 2012, bought new........have not had any major issue's, or minor ones for that matter.......it's been a solid car!


Good luck

PT63s

I have a 2014 CLS63s and have driven it over 50,000 miles in 30 months winter, summer in Canada.
Never had a problem except one injector went defective but never left me stranded.
As for the suspension, its McPherson struts up front, airmatic in the back.
Very reliable daily driver BUT I would never own an AMG out of warranty.
Get it dealer inspected and find out how worn the brakes are. A 4 wheel brake job on this thing is $5000 !! Get other normal wear and tear estimated $$ and an estimated how long before it needs changing. If all is good, drive like you stole it. A hell of a beast!

carguyshu

if you're paying 5k for a brake job you are getting ripped off (unless you have the ceramic brake package) rotors are approx. 150 each and pads are about 220 for a set. Even if you replaced all 4 rotors and pads you are looking at $740ish in parts. $4,260 would be a lot of labor to change out the brakes...

PT63s

The written dealer estimate for steel brakes is for $4500 + taxes I assure you.
Yes, i could go to a jobber and get pads and have my buddy do it in his back yard but that will not provide me with braking assurance I expect nor will they provide the same braking distance. I don't try to skimp on brakes for safety reasons.

AMG Rotors at the MB parts counter are not $150.00 each. Dealers here do not resurface rotors, they change everything with new parts.
I doubt your local MB dealer will change rotors + pads and needed parts for under $1000.

carguyshu

you can actually go to an MB dealer and get the OEM pads for the list price of $304 or you could go to MBdirectparts.com (an MB dealer in Omaha that sells parts at wholesale) for $220.22. pads are part # 000-420-34-00. The rotors are part #212-423-04-12 & list for $218 each and are $157.30 at mbdirectparts.com. Unless the parts catalog I'm looking at and these part numbers are incorrect (which is always possible), you are getting hustled by your dealer.

https://www.mbdirectparts.com/auto-p...omponents-scat

A lot of MB dealers will actually charge you MORE than list price at the shop, when you could simply go to their part counters and get them for list price or go online and get the exact same part at wholesale price.

Many dealers actually do resurface rotors while they are on the car with a special machine and never even remove the calipers when doing brake jobs. Lots of MB models allow for brakes to be changed by removing the pads from the top of the caliper, which allows them to resurface the rotor on the car and not have to do the labor of removing the caliper to change the pads.

On another note, a brake job is a brake job. There is nothing fancy about the MB braking system that is rocket science when it comes to changing out brakes (though on SBC equipped cars you do have to have a STAR tool to bleed them properly, you merely have to just unplug it to do a simple pad and/or rotor change). I would trust a buddy in a backyard more than most dealers. (I actually do the majority of work myself bc I know that I care more than any tech working on my car and will make sure it is done right and not done quickly) My experience across several dealers, both MB and others, has been that they do inferior work compared to a small indy shop that actually takes pride in their work. Unless you actually know the exact tech working on your car at the dealer, it is going to be a crapshoot. You may have the best relationship in the world with your dealer and service manager, but the tech in the back is the one that is actually doing the work and if he doesn't care, take pride in his work, and/or is trying to get things done quickly since he is paid not off of hours worked, but hours billed you may have some shotty work performed. I'll give you examples of my last 3 dealer experiences:

1) 2014 chevy truck had a leaking windshield seal. since it was under warranty I took it to the chevy dealer. when I got the truck back there was one screw on the pillar trim missing (along with the screw cover) and the other screw was only tightened halfway.
2) 2007 G35x Infiniti had a transmission control module go bad. Since a dealer is the only one that can code and program a new one to the car I was forced to take it there. As they were test driving the car the newly replaced module went bad and so they took apart the console to check continuity on the gear shift wires to see if a short was frying the modules. When I went to go pick up the car 2 of the dash pieces were just laying in the passenger seat and weren't put back.
3) On my 2003 E55 right before I purchased it, it was at an MB dealer (which is were I looked at the car) having the transmission replaced under extended warranty (radiator was defective and dumped coolant into it ruining it) and also had the rear brakes replaced and an oil change. I noticed that they had applied nearly 200 ft/lbs of torque to the rear wheels when they replaced the rear brakes which is double what they are supposed to be put on at and can damage the rotors (I also retorque all of my wheels myself after having tires changed out for this same reason). When I went to go change the oil myself at the next service I noticed they didn't even drain the front sump (only the rear) and that they did NOT use new crush washers or drain plugs (both of which are one time use).

My faith in all dealers is minimal at best. If their proprietary tool can't tell them exactly what is wrong (in MBs case it is STAR, which I own a copy of) then they are generally pretty clueless. Most are just parts changers that say what the computer tells them to do.

edit: on 4matic AMG models the front rotors are more, the prices listed above are for the rear components. They are $1,020 list, $738.10 wholesale & pads are $285.56 wholesale, $394 retail. Still at retail pricing you are way less than 5k for a brake job given that only the front rotor are more expensive. For all OEM parts wholesale you are looking at $2,296.58 (if my math is correct) for all four corners plus labor. Though you will pay shipping, the shipping will likely be far less than any sales tax you would pay by buying local.

KLR CLS

Just a note about the turbos, indeed you still have to contend with the fundamental service life limitations affecting all journal bearing turbos. If you beat on the car, and do not allow time for oil cool down after shutoff, you can definitely cook the bearings quickly, ultimately needing replacement. Overall turbo service life under normal conditions should be 75-100k miles, however will depend on lots of factors including temps, driving style, oil quality and change frequency etc.

carguyshu

Most modern cars with turbos will either keep pumping oil if things are too hot after shutdown or force the car to continue to run so that it can keep pumping oil to prevent this from being a large problem. I'm not sure if this applies to the 63 or not, but given all the start/stop tech etc. I would think that the start/stop tech would be smart enough to not turn off the engine when you are sitting if temps are high enough to do turbo bearing damage.

PeterUbers

You're gunna get way more traffic on the w212amg forum... basically same car (2014+ e63)

deyainrdy4ds

Does the transmission act a little erratic with the tune? Is this a common complaint post-tune?