cosmicclubber

Hope everyone has had a Merry Christmas!

I have a 2011 W218 CLS63 with 147000km on the clock. Has been running extremely well for the past 3 years of owning it. Modified with Weistec Turbopipe, Downpipe and Midpipe, PP-Performance Tune and AFe Air FIlters. 6 months ago I changed the spark plugs on the car to NGK SILZKBR8D8S (colder plugs) and have had no issues with the car driving beautifully. Only issue was the car would have to turnover for 2 seconds before starting rather than the usual rapid start when you press the Start Button and I thought nothing of that because everything was running fine.

1 week ago I noticed a rough idle issue driving back from work in the afternoon. Drove to work the next morning and it was even rougher. So I decided at middday to take it to a mechanic nearby and on the way there the car started shaking and the RPM would jump to 3000 every few seconds at idle and the car was lacking power. Barely got to the mechanic. He used a OBD reader and said cylinder 5, 7, and 8 were misfiring due to ignition coil issues. But when he cleared the error codes the car went back to normal. So he asked me to buy the coils and change them. Drove off and 5 minutes later the car did the same thing. Very rough and erratic idling. So I called Mercedes Spare Parts. they only had 1 ignition coil in all of sydney. Decided to call spare parts shops who told me the BREMI 2721500280 Ignitions Coil was compatible with my VIN number, Bought 8 coils and installed them that afternoon, easy job and took 1 hour. The car would start and immediately shutdown so I reckon the parts are not compatible. I checked for error codes with the OBD reader with the new coils and here is the list of codes:




So decided to replace the old ignition coils back in place. I did not make a note of the ignition coils for cylinders 5, 7 and 8 so they all got mixed up. And so when I replaced them the car started again with a slight rough idle and I thought it would last long enough to get genuine mercedes ignition coils. The next evening (night as I finished work at 130am) in my workplace carpark the car had an erratic and very rough idle again and was struggling to move off the line. Attached is the video of the incident. As soon as I switched the car off, it would start momentarily with that violent sound and then shutdown. so I read the error codes again and this time Cylinders 1,2,3 and 4 were misfiring instead. The error codes are as below:



At this stage my car is stuck in a tight multi-storey carpark at my workplace. I called roadside assistance who couldnt help other than push me into a bay and said no tow truck could get in to take the car out. So I decided to buy genuine ignition coils still believing that was the problem and install it myself ($1400) already. Mercedes had not got 3 in stock. Bought them on Monday and installed them Tuesday night after i finished work on Christmas Day at 10pm. Seeing as Cylinders 1,2,3,4 were misfiring, I decided to change cylinders 1,2,4 ignition coils. Same issue, same errors which is now confusing. I then decided to swap the old ignition coils which are working in cylinder 5,6,7,8 to cylinders 1,2,3,4 and put the new coils in cylinders 5,6,7. I assumed if the problem with with ignition coils that once I swapped the 2 sides of the engine the problem would move to the other side. Same problem, rough start, erratic idling and dies down quickly.




I am baffled now. Above are the last error codes. It is between christmas and new years, my regular mechanic is away and I am in desperate need of the car for work purposes. I will have to hire a car in the interim but I need advice as to whether anyone has experienced the same issue or if anyone has any suggestions.

I finally managed to push it down the carpark ramp to ground floor and used a friend's car to tow it onto the street so a tow truck could get it loaded and it is now sitting in my driveway.

I am thinking camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor or both next. I can work on it myself for now.
But I am worried about the timing chain being off now as well. And to be honest I am now anticipating major damage to the engine which is a disaster. I guess this is what happens when you own a high km AMG.

I am desperate and need any and all the advice possible. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Much appreciated.

cosmicclubber

Here's the video of the breakdown

Terence E ENoh

Usually when you get those symptoms, its usually the coil pack because coil packs usually cause random misfires. So I know the issue is not your spark plugs. It cant also be your coil packs because you just replaced it. At this point I would suggest couple of things:
- Check your electricals and your ECU. Have you had an oil leak that is going to the electricals ? That would cause these problems. I have had that happen to my BMW. See if you have any oil leaks to the ECU or anywhere close to electricals or spark plugs.
-I know you mentioned you tuned the car. Try detuning the car temporarily back to factory settings. If this step works, then your car has to be retuned especially with the new additions.
- Bad crankshaft sensors or electricals will do that aswell. Check to see if your sensor is drenched in oil. Try replacing it and see what happens. Make sure none of it's wirings are drenched in oil.
I am not a car expert by any means but I have had my own share of these types of problems aswell so I know a little about these things. Also post this post in the E63amg forums since we all have the same platform. Some other people over there will be of very very good assistance. Keep us posted with what happens.

Mikeki7

A star diagnostic would be better suited to find the exact cause but usually a a bad sensor will throw a specific code, unless you have the oil in wiring harness issue then that can create random problems. After sensors my next guess would be failing/failed fuel injector/s causing multiple misfires. The early direct injectors have been known to fail and mercedes have since updated the part number. With a star diag you would be able to check injector fault count and run some guided tests for misfires. Hard to say what the issue might be on high mileage car, could also be low pressure fuel pump which may not throw a code, high pressure fuel pump, faulty spark plug. injectors/pumps are expensive so hopefully its something simple.

cosmicclubber

I posted to the E63 forum.
Unfortunately Mercedes are shut over the new years period and they couldn't even get me spare parts because they have none available in Sydney!
I took out the camshaft sensors and there's a tiny bit of oil in 1 out of 4 sensors. Luckily no oil in the ECU harness.
So I have ordered the camshaft sensors / crankshaft sensors and 5 more ignition coils from FCPEuro. Hoping once I install them the car starts again.
Otherwise I am in for a very expensive bill if its the injectors or fuel pump.
This is my only car and daily driver so it's irritating this happened around this time of the year.
Thank you all for the suggestions. I will post back once there's some progress.

homeofstone

I suggest getting the car scanned with a STAR diagnostic which may give you more specific information as to what is wrong. It could be bad fuel. .

FCPEuro

Pull the plugs and swap with the OE range Bosch plug if you haven't already.

--Kyle

cosmicclubber

So the ignition coils change and the camshaft sensor change has not fixed the problem
Car was towed to a mechanic in Sydney (International Autohaus in Marrickville)
Waiting for them to open timing cover
But most likely stretched timing chain or cam sprochet problem etc
The mechanic tells me it's not an easy fix and if the valves have contacted the pistons they're bent it will sting in terms of price
Crossing fingers hoping it ain't worst case scenario which I have been informed might even be having to replace the engine
What a nightmare this ordeal has become!

Terence E ENoh

Damn dude! I hope for the best for you..Keep us updated with what they find. Were you driving the car really rough? Do you have a warranty on the car? Try contacting the tuning company and explain the problem too. Tuning cars will cause reliability issues down the line since engine parts would wear out faster. Did your tuning company provide warranty with their tune?

amgboy916

this worries me because i have just gotten P0017 and P0018 codes. only symptom is cranking longer to start. I have my mechanic looking at it but he still hasnt returned a diagnosis. I'm hoping its nothing serious since I havent noticed any other symptoms. but it seems this is how yours started too

cosmicclubber

ALL M157 OWNERS BEWARE: ALL 2011-2013 M157 OWNERS NEED TO HAVE A TIMING CHAIN MECHANISM SERVICE/UPGRADE TO UPDATED COMPONENTS TO AVOID CATASTROPHIC TOP-END FAILURE OF ENGINE. DO NOT DELAY IT
- MULTIPLE FAILURES IN THESE ENGINES DUE TO MERCEDES MANUFACTURING DEFECT, YET MERCEDES DOES NOT WARN YOU ABOUT IT AND WHEN I HAD MY 100,000KM SERVICE, NOBODY FLAGGED THE ISSUE.
- AVOID A VERY EXPENSIVE REPAIR BILL BY SORTING THIS OUT EARLY BEFORE IT FAILS.

Mine started with taking longer to crank many months back. Then it catastrophically failed.

Here is the ordeal I've gone through in the past 4 weeks.

I finally got my car towed to International Autohaus in Marrickville after speaking to Allen about the problem. He seemed knowledgeable and gave me a sense of security that the car would be sorted out properly. He said he needed to review it to diagnose the problem and it may need a new engine which might cost 20grand. But hopefully it's a camshaft sprocket issue and no bent valves.

After attempting to open the timing chain case, he said it had jammed and the chain was not allowing access to the engine without dropping it out of the car. He quoted me AUD$5000 for parts and labour for timing chain issue and asked me if it was ok to proceed. 6 days later, I got a call saying the engine was dropped and after opening the casing, he found the chain stretched and jammed, the cylinder heads were scored and the pistons dented slightly. All the intake valves were bent and the bit at the end of the camshaft was loose and out of sync.

Turns out after the timing mechanism failed, the pistons collided with the valves and bent them all and damaged the cylinder heads. Luckily, the bottom end appears to be ok.

So I have now been quoted AUD$20,000 for the repair: resurfacing the cylinder heads, replacing the valves and seals, fixing the camshaft issue; AUD$15,000 for parts and AUD$5000 for labour.

I proceeded to look up the cost of all the parts individually from American website mboemparts.com, and it definitely does not add up to that price for the individual parts. Even if I buy BRAND NEW cylinder heads, valves, pistons and all the seals, it only just adds up to that price. He was not replacing the cylinder head or the pistons.

Now my engine is in 100 pieces, I called the mechanic and asked if I could supply the parts and he did the repair job. He initially refused due to time issue on parts arriving, then he admitted eventually after explaining that I cannot afford to dump that much cash on a repair job and hence I need to source the parts, the fact that he is making money on the parts and he is not willing to just do the job. He is wrapping the engine parts in boxes and has requested I take my engine away somewhere else to get repaired as he is not dropping his price under any circumstance.

I don't know how much it costs to do a top end service, but I feel like $20,000 is excessive, especially as he is not touching the bottom end.

SO ANYONE WITH THE OLDER M157 BEWARE OF STRETCHING TIMING CHAIN ISSUE CAUSING CATASTROPHIC ENGINE DAMAGE. FIND OUT IF YOUR ENGINE HAS THE OLDER OR UPDATED TIMING CHAIN BEFORE IT FAILS.

I am now stuck. I have no idea how to proceed. I was told by multiple mechanics that since the engine is opened, they are reluctant to take the job on. Nobody wants to touch it. I don't know how to fix it. And I don't want to give into plain extortion from the mechanic since I feel like that price is significantly marked up based on my research. My options are find someone to fix it and I source the parts, or buy a second hand engine which would be AUD$23,000 for a used engine with 90,000km on the clock. New engines from Mercedes in Sydney cost AUD$110,000.

I need an opinion from the community as to how to proceed. Attached are photos of the damage. You can see the bent intake valves and the dented pistons. How would you all proceed if you were in my shoes? I am open to any suggestions that might salvage this desperate situation.
Also, do I need to worry about the piston dents? The mechanic said he wouldn't replace the pistons. Is that advisable?


Dented pistons

Dented pistons

Dented pistons

Bent valves

Dented pistons

amgboy916

1MavRick

a cold chill just went down my spine. really sad to see you going through this. and thanx for the heads up. what exactly are we to tell the shops that we are wanting to do to prevent this from happening?

amgboy916

I apologize I just realized youre the OP and you already documented your symptoms and codes.

I'm worried because I have codes P0017 and P0018 I didnt see that listed on yours but I am having the same symptom of crankling longer to start
ive been foolishly driving the car still in this conditon thinking it wasn't serious but now I'll stop for sure until its fixed. thinking I may have to go to the stealership for the diagnosis to be sure.
but I'm hoping im not at the point of catastrophic failure as I havent had any of your other symptoms or codes. hoping for a simple fix


and to 1mavrick

heres an excerpt from another thread that may help


Engine 157:
1) From engine number 157 9xx 60 009368 up to engine number 157 9xx 60 017984 install check valves and chain tensioners

2) From engine number 157 9xx 60 017985 up to engine number 157 9xx 60 022333 (December 2012) install check valves (optimized tensioners installed in this production range)

Note:
When performing repairs and only the check valves are supposed to be installed, the tensioners must still be checked according to WIS documentation. If optimized tensioner is found to be defective it must be replaced

Note:
Check valves were installed in the factory in the engines above the ranges provided above. In case of 157 engines either A 278 050 40 00 or A 278 050 33 00 check valves were installed. In engines 276 and 278 check valves A 278 050 33 00 were installed. It is important to measure the oil supply opening in cylinder heads to install correct check valve.

My engine number is 028822 - from the notes above, it seems that the 'optimised tensioner' installed at the factory was defective as it was replaced. The check valve was also added according to the dealer, so it was either missing or the spec had changed?. Anway, the tensioner or the check valve can seemingly go bad and need to be replaced anyway.


also heres a pdf

file:///C:/Users/W1476020/Downloads/Rattling%20noise%20after%20engine%20start.pdf

CLS63amgs

Sorry to hear buddy! It's really put me in a **** mood man!

International Autohaus in Marrickville isn't the friendliest of workshops! I've tried them once (Hence the "once")

I've just called my MD dealer and he said to me that if something like this happens, the lack of rapid startup is the first sign of this catastrophic failure.

I wish I can give you some suggestions but I can't think of anything. I live in Sydney myself so feel free to hit me up in private chat. Would like to catch up

ItalianJoe1

There's no damage to the pistons, those valve reliefs are cast in.

The timing gear may have failed, but usually if they fail the spring holds them in the default position and they don't bend valves. I have only seen timing system issues on heavily modded cars so far, even the really high mileage 278/157 engines we see haven't had it happening, yet at least. There arent many with a ton of miles on them yet.

The gears are expensive but they may be somewhat of a maintenance item on high mileage, heavily modded engines if this happens more often. It would not be a surprise to need a set of chains and tensioners, they aren't the best.

Did your car have the updated upper chain tensioners referenced in the bulletin above? They usually only get replaced for bleeding off and causing noise at startup but I have taken some out that were starting to bind and I could see them being an issue on a well used engine.

exhaustgases

If someone was supplying the parts, I could do the job for under 3k, that is just the engine, no desire to deal with the car. The reason for huge cost from a shop is they have to warrant the work. So the big bill is to cover the costs if they have to do the job again and not charge for the second go at it.