comecorrect

Looks great! Thanks!
MIKE

SoSleek

Plz tell your welder to make me an exact replica of your exhaust!!!! Haha looks amazing. That x pipe is sick!!

pmgiarrizzo

Yeah he does some really quality work. He's a known guy in the VW world of modifying and tuning. he's built and welded MANY custom exhausts for all kinds of cars from Audi to Volkswagens. He's done my exhaust and the pictures really don't do it justice, its truly artwork.

I just had my Eurocharged tune done, its called the "euro flash" tune thats supposed to take an OEM car from 469hp to 516hp and 516tq to 563tq... and eliminate the CEL for no cats. Assuming (modestly) that the exhaust work gave me another 30 of each hp and tq, that would mean im sitting at roughly 546hp and 593tq... however, after the tune, i cant say the car feels all that much different, if at all (placebo effect?). I was hoping that the jump of nearly 50hp and 50tq from the tune would just be a dramatic gain... but I wonder if the guys tuning the car simply programmed the CEL to disappear rather than load the tune software.

I'm heading back to Eurocharged Canada here in Toronto after work, to have the guys re-load the software, or possibly load it for the first time. I won't bash them, mistakes happen. Hopefully something did go wrong that way I do get the re-tune and things improve dramatically as expected... an engine making nearly 600ftlbs of torque should smoke the tires in second gear without a challenge... any one have similar mods to me with reviews? Maybe the car is tuned and I was expecting an even bigger jump in power than there was?

cheers,
Pete.

MTV10

They're gonna tell you that you need a pulley upgrade
Edit: Or dyno tune . . .

pmgiarrizzo

In a way... that's basically what they told me. One of the owners (he tuned my car) said we can throw it on the dyno to see what its putting down, for $150.. which wouldn't be a problem... but I didn't have the time for it. I just asked him to re-flash the ECU just in case there were any issues. He did it without any hesitation, which was great. The car does pull like an animal in 2nd gear, but I just dont know if thats because of the new exhaust system or if its the tune. I was expecting the tune to up the power to allow me to smoke the tires in 2nd gear... anyone have that tune and have any power reviews?? I mean, next year I think I'll end up going with the rest of the stage 3 package... i already have the upgraded cooling system, pump as well as exhaust work. The rest of the kit is injectors, throttle body, pulley and new tune... and since its there, might as well get the TCU tune. Any recommendations for/against the TCU tunes?

-Pete.

pmgiarrizzo

Hey guys,

Just an update on the car, I realized why it didn't feel "tuned". It was my mistake. I re-read the details about the tune from Eurocharged on their website and went over one key detail that I forgot. The tune is optomized for 93 octane fuel... I went there with about 1/4 tank of left over premium 91 octane fuel. I read this as my tank emptied out, so of course, my next fill up was Petro-Canada's famous Ultra 94 fuel. Initially it didnt make a difference until all of the old 91 was finished running its course through the lines and what not. but after a couple days of driving it normally, I decided to thrash it on my way to work. Wow... I mean... holy s***. Again, it was another wake up call for this motor.

The guys at eurocharged were really cool about the whole thing. I showed up and asked if they could verify that the tune was done, they tried the same tune file but it was programmed for a car with cats, but it was the exact same tune file. They programmed it, I drove it, it felt the same, so they loaded back the cat-less file, again, no change, until the Ultra 94 made its way into the system.

I highly recommend the tune for those wanting to wake up that already scary torque monster.

anyone do an LSD swap? I feel like that might be my next mod.

-Pete.

pmgiarrizzo

Since the car is sitting in storage (Heated garage of course) I visit it once a week to start it up, keep the battery alive as well as let it warm up to operating temperature. The car has never been winter driven and its seen rain maybe a handful of times this year, aside from the water used to wash it.

It was dark and wet outside but I decided that a video after all of the work has been performed is a must.

Enjoy!

Idle and revs:


Quick wheel rip:


Take it easy guys,
Pete.

C32owner

Man have I enjoyed this thread, thanks for the thorough posting of all.

What's makes it more special is the timing, as I am off to collect my car this morning after having complete exhaust done and smaller upper pulley, also got the guys to hard wire the if pump for constant operation with key on.

Out of interest what mm diameter is your exhaust 76mm? Sorry if I missed it earlier. I must be killing you leaving the beast stuck in a garage over winter...

Ps such a pity you didn't have any baseline numbers to work with to see all your efforts paying off increasing power with each mod, although I'm sure as you rightly put it you can certainly feel the difference. What altitude you running at ? Do you plan on slapping it on the dyno

pmgiarrizzo

Hey man, I'm glad you've enjoyed it. It was a lot of work but worth every minute of it as soon as I fired the car up. The exhaust is 2.500" (approx 65mm) inner diameter. I would have ran the 76mm (3.00") inch, but with the amount of torque movement the engine makes, and with how little room there would be in some areas, I didnt want to experience any rattling of any sort. the exhaust (after it heats up from a WOT pull) expands and warps due to heat expansion). I didnt want that to be an issue for me.

Cheers bud, Enjoy the "new" car. Its going to feel like one! Parking it sucks, its so sad seeing it sit there in the garage. Its begging me for a joy ride. But unless the roads are dry and the temperatures are about 5degrees celcius, I wont take her out. It's never been winter driven and I plan on keeping it that way.

-Pete

C32owner

Cool, well got mine back, and hells the thing has 88mm piping, it's like a damn exhaust off a jet engine lol... The accelerator pedal is definitely a loudness pedal, holly smokes... Luckily highway cruising and light throttle is like stock And no drone

pmgiarrizzo

Hey guys,

Since this thread started, I've kept all of you posted as to what I've done and how far along its come. Here in the GTA of Ontario, Canada, we just recieved about 20cm of snow (approx. 8 inches for you USA guys). hopefully soon enough the spring weather will come back and we can get our cars on the road.

Whats to come in the next couple weeks:

1. Wheels - Rohana RC8 Machined Silver Finish. 20x9 ET25 Front 20x11 ET35 Rear
2. Tires - 255/30/ZR20 Front & 305/25/ZR20 Rear - Michelin Pilot Super Sports
3. Renntech Lowering Module. (I am a renntech dealer, pm me for things you want or need).

Once the weather turns around, I'll put the insurance back on the car, bring it to the shop and install everything.

Cheers,
Pete.

Also, if anyone has specifications for fixed pulleys, I have access to a VERY large CNC machine shop that i can make literally anything with. I can make belt wrap kits and fixed pulleys. However, all I need are drawings. I have access to AutoCAD and SolidWorks, so CAD models are VERY welcome.

Once I have designs set in place, i can get some estimated quotes for you guys if need be.

SoSleek

Hey Pete, I cant wait to see it lowered with the wheels!

I just want to give you a heads up, if you are going for the flush look you may want to consider an offset closer to ET20 in the rear and around ET16 front. With your current offsets you will need at least a 10-15mm spacer to sit nicely with your fenders.

pmgiarrizzo

SoSleek, thanks for the tip man! once I have everything installed and ready I can measure the distance from the fender to the tire and determine what spacers (if any). Once i determine that, I'll get a piece of 7075 aluminum and toss it on one of the many CNC machines here at work.

Best Regards,
Pete.

dyno

a really well documented installation. I spent the last hours today watching and reading your posts & pics. so, thank you !

pity, as you had at hand that good welder, you could have embellished a bit those otherwise raw headers..

Then, wondering if you really needed to install that pump and reservoir .. our cls come with the good bosch pump.

I'm not a fan of open exhaust (better, not if permanently open ..) but the sound from the garage is exciting - lol

dyno

at how many rpms starts the fun (Torque wise) with a 3.5 exhaust ... do you have a dyno ?

pmgiarrizzo

Just a teaser picture. Hopefully I'll have a decent set of pictures to post soon enough. the car was just beginning to lower itself another inch. My brother snapped this picture impatiently lol. The renntech module raises the car up about an inch when travelling above 50km/h (31-32mph roughly) just for safety of bumps or dips. it was still up in the raised position.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

The rest of the exhaust looks great I agree, but that X-pipe is a toilet. I'd be curious to see how much power the car would pick up with a nice Dr. Gas or Burns piece that wasn't seemingly designed with maximum turbulence in mind.

No disrespect to the owner, it's a beautiful car!

pmgiarrizzo

No disrespect/offence taken, however, I am going to politely disagree. Take a look at this "X-Pipe" design, its nearly identical in design and flow characteristics, ask the owner of the lamborghini that this pipe went onto if he lost any power or had the turbulence that you speak of.




Based on your theory, this pipe would probably be even more turbulent. However, the gains made out of this pipe on an N/A motor (V10 gallardo I believe) makes nearly 30ftlbs more than the OEM exhaust design.

But hey, to each their own, I love the way the car feels, and with the exhaust (before I had it tuned) the car gained easily 40-50ftlbs. Keep in mind, no primary or secondary cats, and no resonator either, but regardless, a very significant bump in power. Definitely enough to feel it.

-Pete.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

What I'm telling you isn't a theory, it's basic airflow dynamics.

1- Im sure that Lambo exhaust you pictured did indeed bump the power of the car but it's a compromised design due to packaging restraints. (Mid-engine)

2- Your knucklehead exhaust guy may have made something that looks like that Lambo X-pipe, but it's facing the wrong way Look at both and think about how the gases are flowing. The Gallardo exhaust is flowing through a mandrel bent 180' turn that has a small window of crossover to the other bank, while yours is being fed into an airflow disaster zone. That thing really is a toilet dude. It's definitely hurting your performance. How much? I don't know. Maybe not too much, maybe a noticeable amount.

But again, please take the criticism constructively. I dig your car a lot, I have almost the same one and absolutely love it.

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

This is what you want

pmgiarrizzo

If that's the exhaust system I wanted, I would have it. But at this point your comments of "no disrespect" and "take it as constructive criticism" no longer apply. You've now called my x-pipe a "toilet" twice, and you've insulted my welder twice. You must have a mechanical engineering degree with a masters degree in Thermodynamics with all of your knowledge about my x-pipe and its flaws. Tell ya what, stud, since you are obviously educated in this field, why don't you go ahead and calculate what my thermal efficiency loss is due to my "toilet" pipes. Calculate the back pressure they're generating due to my design. Tell me how much horsepower I'm losing based on your "basic airflow dynamics" education.

Here is the picture with the exhaust flow patterns:



If you were to cut a cross section in those pipes, you would see a VERY significant sized hole between each 180 degree bend allowing a majority of airflow to pass THROUGH the hole, hence the X-Pipe design. the purpose of the X-pipe is to create a VENTURI effect by using the hot exhaust pulse from the left bank, to charge through the pipe and cross over just before the right bank sends its pulse. The venturi effect will then have a "vacuum" type system inside the right bank pipes PULLING the hot air through the X-pipe again and again thus creating less restrictions and MORE flow.

In case my pipes are a tad confusing for you, here's my pipes with the same illustrations drawn.

I'll apologize ahead of time for the microsoft paint doodling, but the message is quite clear.




I've studied mechanical engineering, I have the degree to prove it. Thankfully, I have taken courses in Thermodynamics, and various other courses. I've come across MANY systems that have their efficiencies and deficiencies as well. I happen to think my system works quite well.

Are there other systems that work just as well or better? Sure, there will always be something better, something more, something faster. Is mine the best? Absolutely not, but hell, until you or someone else literally shows me their calculations proving to me that my x-pipe is ineffective or is "a toilet" as you call it, keep your words to yourself.

The forum is designed to help people, to start conversations, discuss ideas and share thoughts and information throughout the world over the internet. It was not designed to insult someone's efforts in trying something different. I have different ideas based on my education/trade/background/experience, and I'm sure you have your own ideas/theories/experiences/background that you will stand up for as well. But like I said, I can appreciate you saying you dig my car, but I don't appreciate your childish words saying that my welder is a knucklehead, and my x-pipe design a "toilet".

Sir-Boost-a-Lot

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for clearing that up. You've obviously got a firm grasp on things.

dyno

to the OP: ..you certainly have not chosen the conventional way of fitting that merge pipe, but, in the end, what's important is the result that you obtained.
maybe you could comment some more on this ..

As I see it, the merge pipe you have used is not in first place a truly X-pipe but is an "equalization pipe" instead, because the two pipes are just contacting and not crossing. It is something midway between an H-pipe and and X-pipe and is normally useful for smoothing the pressure from the two engine banks and, in cross-planes engines like ours, as a remedy for equalizing the pressure spykes caused by the double firings on each bank in 90 crank degrees sequence (instead of regular 180°) that is peculiar to a cross-plane V8.

By the way, that same merge pipe installed on the Lambo, as I see it, is not intended to work as you depicted it. i.e. no cross flow intended: flow from the left bank continues to the left and does not flow tot he right, except for just a small equalization amount.

Now, by fitting that merge pipe 90°-turned, you have indeed obtained a different result, i.e. something more akin to a true X-pipe. But a particularly styled X-pipe with "V" shapes transversal instead than longitudinal .. this should cause the flow to be "tempted" to reverse back from the left to the right bank (as the flow tends to remain attached to the surface and follow the bend as it travels - "Coanda effect", that you, as an engineer, are obviously aware of).
You said the two U-pipes are connected by a large hole, so maybe, the reversion does not happen .
But I 'd say that, as a net effect, you have moved your torque curve up in the range.... so, let's know !

As a side note, I remember of having seen applied this same type of fitment in the early years of our M113K platform, but it had no following. .. should have a pic of a similar x-pipe somewhere.

dyno

the long tube header that you posted is certaily a nice big header ... and I'm often tempted to install something like that .. but it would be just for love of craftmanship , as I'm not a fan of loud exhausts.
Indeed, it's just a 4into1 long tube set ..
I don't see any special design in it:
- no sequential primary pairings
- no stepped pipes
- no Equal lenght primaries
.. agreed, our cross-plane engine can't fully benefit of equal lenghts as a flat-plane V8 would, but pity... at least an "attempt" to get a better pulse-tuning by properly sizing the leghts of primaries 'd have been appreciated )

pmgiarrizzo

Dyno,

thank you for the post, and I will completely agree with almost everything you've said with respect to my design, yes the design is definitely not as "conventional" as most would be, but if you were to actually put a smoke tester through the lambo pipe, it would be in the neighbourhood of 30% of the exhaust from the left bank channeling through the right bank and vice versa. the exhaust gases are travelling around a bend, which means most of the high speed gases are moving around the outer portion of the bend. picture a marble rolling down a hill and then entering the exhaust, the marble, due to its momentum, would rush in and pin itself against the outer side of the bend, much like exhaust air would, in an ideal world, the exhaust gases would be laminar in flow with 90% of its flow being in the center of the diameter, but in bends, of course, the center of flow changes, it will be on the outer diameter of the pipe which allows for the blow through of somewhere around 30%.

In my system, the exhaust gases would do the same, they would be "forced" against the outer bend diameter and be "pushing" against that wall, which would allow for very smooth flow through the x-pipe and the gases would go from left bank to the right pipe and vice versa. As for exhaust gases travelling back up the opposite bank, I dont think that will be the case since the opposite bank is sealed (closed valves) it would be a pressurized system and the exhaust gases, like a fluid, will take the path of least resistance. Yes, the design is an attempt to have both the benefits of the X and H pipe functions, is it better than either one? I can't say for sure until its tossed on a dyno with separate X and H pipes to quickly swap out, but I can definitely say the whole exhaust system performs REALLY well.

-Pete.