Brake wear warning
05-20-2019, 02:14 PM
#1
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Brake wear warning
I have a 2008 X164 and got the brake wear warning.
It showed up when backing from being parked a couple of times but not consistently.
I took a quick look and the backs were far further worn than the fronts (looking at the outside pads on both sides).
I expected this since I had a lot more miles on the rear pads than the front.
Even though it looked like I have about 25% to 33% or so of the pad left, I decided to do the rear pads and rotors (I had the rotors from a pad only replacement about 60K miles ago (if I remember correctly)
Pads were worn fairly evenly, just about to get to the sensor, but not quite there. Rotors were not bad, but wavier and more lip than I like to keep.
Everything went well, and now about 600 miles or so past the rear brake job, backing out of a parking space "BEEP" - "Brake Wear"!
I don't recall, does the front have two sensors or one (back had one on right side)?
Is there a way to tell if it is the front or rear sensor circuit tripping the code?
It showed up when backing from being parked a couple of times but not consistently.
I took a quick look and the backs were far further worn than the fronts (looking at the outside pads on both sides).
I expected this since I had a lot more miles on the rear pads than the front.
Even though it looked like I have about 25% to 33% or so of the pad left, I decided to do the rear pads and rotors (I had the rotors from a pad only replacement about 60K miles ago (if I remember correctly)
Pads were worn fairly evenly, just about to get to the sensor, but not quite there. Rotors were not bad, but wavier and more lip than I like to keep.
Everything went well, and now about 600 miles or so past the rear brake job, backing out of a parking space "BEEP" - "Brake Wear"!
I don't recall, does the front have two sensors or one (back had one on right side)?
Is there a way to tell if it is the front or rear sensor circuit tripping the code?
Last edited by N_Jay; 05-20-2019 at 06:37 PM.
05-21-2019, 03:01 PM
#2
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They have one sensor for each axle. It is likely 1 of 3 things:
1. The mechanic put the old sensor back in after the brake swap.
2. The sensor was replaced, but is not seated properly or has a loose connection.
3. The front brakes need to be replaced. It is very possible that an inside pad that you can't see is completely worn down due to a caliper slide that is sticking or corroded, thus causing the pad to stay engaged with the rotor all the time and wear out prematurely. The outside pads can look like there have lots of meat left on them while the inside pads are completely worn. The brake sensors measure the inside pad only.
The easiest way to tell is to get it on a jack or lift, pull the tires off, and check all of the pads. My best guess without seeing it would be #3.
1. The mechanic put the old sensor back in after the brake swap.
2. The sensor was replaced, but is not seated properly or has a loose connection.
3. The front brakes need to be replaced. It is very possible that an inside pad that you can't see is completely worn down due to a caliper slide that is sticking or corroded, thus causing the pad to stay engaged with the rotor all the time and wear out prematurely. The outside pads can look like there have lots of meat left on them while the inside pads are completely worn. The brake sensors measure the inside pad only.
The easiest way to tell is to get it on a jack or lift, pull the tires off, and check all of the pads. My best guess without seeing it would be #3.
05-21-2019, 03:14 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Ill be nice!
1. The "mechanic" was me. The sensor was new (I just forgot if it was one or two)
2. The sensor was placed properly, but that doe not mean it could not have become dislodged.
I doubt it has a loose connection, the connectors are fairly well designed, but given miles and road debris anything is possible.
3. The rear calipees looked good, and I have not had a problem with a hanging caliper on either of the MBs in the past (yes, they can fail, and was a common issue with my Honda's past 150K miles in Chicago salt.), so I doubt that it hung up.
Additionally, if one side hung up, the outer pad would typically wear less and is usually noticeable side to side.
And yep, pulling the wheels is next, but was kind of hoping there was a way from eth dash to see if it front of back, since if it is back it is somewhere in the truck wiring, and I can save myself the time of futzing with the front wheels.
I am wondering why you assume #3, and not a bad wire in the vehicle or a bad sensor from road debris?
P.S. I have had very little problem with German car brakes (been driving and maintaining MB. Porsche, VW, and Audi cars for a long time, I use the recommended (but rarely used ATE brake grease) however don't follow the recommendation of replacing or turning rotors every pad change (typically replace every other)
Could the air pressure cause it? (Smirk)
They have one sensor for each axle. It is likely 1 of 3 things:
1. The mechanic put the old sensor back in after the brake swap.
2. The sensor was replaced, but is not seated properly or has a loose connection.
3. The front brakes need to be replaced. It is very possible that an inside pad that you can't see is completely worn down due to a caliper slide that is sticking or corroded, thus causing the pad to stay engaged with the rotor all the time and wear out prematurely. The outside pads can look like there have lots of meat left on them while the inside pads are completely worn. The brake sensors measure the inside pad only.
The easiest way to tell is to get it on a jack or lift, pull the tires off, and check all of the pads. My best guess without seeing it would be #3.
1. The mechanic put the old sensor back in after the brake swap.
2. The sensor was replaced, but is not seated properly or has a loose connection.
3. The front brakes need to be replaced. It is very possible that an inside pad that you can't see is completely worn down due to a caliper slide that is sticking or corroded, thus causing the pad to stay engaged with the rotor all the time and wear out prematurely. The outside pads can look like there have lots of meat left on them while the inside pads are completely worn. The brake sensors measure the inside pad only.
The easiest way to tell is to get it on a jack or lift, pull the tires off, and check all of the pads. My best guess without seeing it would be #3.
2. The sensor was placed properly, but that doe not mean it could not have become dislodged.
I doubt it has a loose connection, the connectors are fairly well designed, but given miles and road debris anything is possible.
3. The rear calipees looked good, and I have not had a problem with a hanging caliper on either of the MBs in the past (yes, they can fail, and was a common issue with my Honda's past 150K miles in Chicago salt.), so I doubt that it hung up.
Additionally, if one side hung up, the outer pad would typically wear less and is usually noticeable side to side.
And yep, pulling the wheels is next, but was kind of hoping there was a way from eth dash to see if it front of back, since if it is back it is somewhere in the truck wiring, and I can save myself the time of futzing with the front wheels.
I am wondering why you assume #3, and not a bad wire in the vehicle or a bad sensor from road debris?
P.S. I have had very little problem with German car brakes (been driving and maintaining MB. Porsche, VW, and Audi cars for a long time, I use the recommended (but rarely used ATE brake grease) however don't follow the recommendation of replacing or turning rotors every pad change (typically replace every other)
Could the air pressure cause it? (Smirk)
05-21-2019, 03:31 PM
#4
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Ill be nice!
1. The "mechanic" was me. The sensor was new (I just forgot if it was one or two)
2. The sensor was placed properly, but that doe not mean it could not have become dislodged.
I doubt it has a loose connection, the connectors are fairly well designed, but given miles and road debris anything is possible.
3. The rear calipees looked good, and I have not had a problem with a hanging caliper on either of the MBs in the past (yes, they can fail, and was a common issue with my Honda's past 150K miles in Chicago salt.), so I doubt that it hung up.
Additionally, if one side hung up, the outer pad would typically wear less and is usually noticeable side to side.
And yep, pulling the wheels is next, but was kind of hoping there was a way from eth dash to see if it front of back, since if it is back it is somewhere in the truck wiring, and I can save myself the time of futzing with the front wheels.
I am wondering why you assume #3, and not a bad wire in the vehicle or a bad sensor from road debris?
1. The "mechanic" was me. The sensor was new (I just forgot if it was one or two)
2. The sensor was placed properly, but that doe not mean it could not have become dislodged.
I doubt it has a loose connection, the connectors are fairly well designed, but given miles and road debris anything is possible.
3. The rear calipees looked good, and I have not had a problem with a hanging caliper on either of the MBs in the past (yes, they can fail, and was a common issue with my Honda's past 150K miles in Chicago salt.), so I doubt that it hung up.
Additionally, if one side hung up, the outer pad would typically wear less and is usually noticeable side to side.
And yep, pulling the wheels is next, but was kind of hoping there was a way from eth dash to see if it front of back, since if it is back it is somewhere in the truck wiring, and I can save myself the time of futzing with the front wheels.
I am wondering why you assume #3, and not a bad wire in the vehicle or a bad sensor from road debris?
BTW, I only offer advice on threads where I have personal experience with the issue, have thoroughly researched, or have personally spoken with a knowledgeable mechanic or service adviser regarding the specific issue. If you're going to ask for help, I suggest you be respectful of the people offering help.
05-21-2019, 03:43 PM
#5
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Because it has happened on both my old 2007 S600 and my 2013 GL550. I just had my front rotors and pads replaced earlier this year. The inside pads were worn down on both the left and right while the outside pads had lots of meat left on them. So the calipers were bound up on both sides. My service adviser told me it is quite common in Benz', especially if you drive in an area where they use salt on the roads in the winter. It is a good idea to replace the brake hardware, including installing new slide pins every time you do a brake job. You can pick them up at RockAuto pretty cheap.
BTW, I only offer advice on threads where I have personal experience with the issue, have thoroughly researched, or have personally spoken with a knowledgeable mechanic or service adviser regarding the specific issue. If you're going to ask for help, I suggest you be respectful of the people offering help.
BTW, I only offer advice on threads where I have personal experience with the issue, have thoroughly researched, or have personally spoken with a knowledgeable mechanic or service adviser regarding the specific issue. If you're going to ask for help, I suggest you be respectful of the people offering help.
Where did you get it serviced? I typically do my own brakes, but did use MW in Hoffman Estates once for the E350
I have not seem evidence of hanging up. but if you had it on both sides, I will take a look to be safe. I would hate to chew up the rotors on the first set of pads.
I only replace the guide pins when they show corrosion or scoring (Or some idiot mechanic buggers the hex or Torx hole by using the wrong tool or size.)
The secret I find is, even in salty areas, using the ATE brake grease.
P.S. It is a good idea to put is on the threads of the bleeder screws also, even though this goes against recommendations.
05-21-2019, 04:22 PM
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Where did you get it serviced? I typically do my own brakes, but did use MW in Hoffman Estates once for the E350
I have not seem evidence of hanging up. but if you had it on both sides, I will take a look to be safe. I would hate to chew up the rotors on the first set of pads.
I only replace the guide pins when they show corrosion or scoring (Or some idiot mechanic buggers the hex or Torx hole by using the wrong tool or size.)
The secret I find is, even in salty areas, using the ATE brake grease.
P.S. It is a good idea to put is on the threads of the bleeder screws also, even though this goes against recommendations.
I have not seem evidence of hanging up. but if you had it on both sides, I will take a look to be safe. I would hate to chew up the rotors on the first set of pads.
I only replace the guide pins when they show corrosion or scoring (Or some idiot mechanic buggers the hex or Torx hole by using the wrong tool or size.)
The secret I find is, even in salty areas, using the ATE brake grease.
P.S. It is a good idea to put is on the threads of the bleeder screws also, even though this goes against recommendations.
Yes, brake grease should always be used on the slides. But salt and road grime can stick to the grease and cause it to wear off or dirt to adhere to it....thus causing the slides to fail. The mechanic showed me the old slide pins and they had pitting on them, thus putting wear on the caliper rubber which appeared to cause the binding. The rubber inserts were part of the hardware kit. Since my vehicles go through about 3-4 winters between brake changes, I think it's always a good idea to invest a few extra dollars to replace the brake hardware when doing a brake change. And with all German cars, the pads and rotors should both be swapped at every brake change. Pad slaps are not a good idea, especially with the high weight of these cars. German cars use rotors with softer metal that wears down faster than most US and Asian cars. Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, and Porsche all recommend that brakes and rotors always be replaced together every time.
If you use after-market rotors, never buy the drilled or slotted ones. They are almost always made in China and can develop heat or stress cracks, rendering them useless and dangerous, even with very few miles of use on them. The flat surfaced after-market rotors are almost always better when they are neither drilled or slotted, even if the OEM's were.
05-21-2019, 04:51 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
That's funny. I did buy this truck at MW in Hoffman, but always get my Benz cars serviced (usually warranty related repairs) in Barrington. I think the service advisers are much more knowledgeable and the mechanics are better over there, even though they are under the same corporate umbrella. I let my local mechanic do the oil changes, brake jobs, and annual service items as I'd rather pay $100/hr vs $175/hr for more basic service items that any good and knowledgeable mechanic can handle.
Yes, brake grease should always be used on the slides. But salt and road grime can stick to the grease and cause it to wear off or dirt to adhere to it....thus causing the slides to fail. The mechanic showed me the old slide pins and they had pitting on them, thus putting wear on the caliper rubber which appeared to cause the binding. The rubber inserts were part of the hardware kit. Since my vehicles go through about 3-4 winters between brake changes, I think it's always a good idea to invest a few extra dollars to replace the brake hardware when doing a brake change. And with all German cars, the pads and rotors should both be swapped at every brake change. Pad slaps are not a good idea, especially with the high weight of these cars. German cars use rotors with softer metal that wears down faster than most US and Asian cars. Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, and Porsche all recommend that brakes and rotors always be replaced together every time.
If you use after-market rotors, never buy the drilled or slotted ones. They are almost always made in China and can develop heat or stress cracks, rendering them useless and dangerous, even with very few miles of use on them. The flat surfaced after-market rotors are almost always better when they are neither drilled or slotted, even if the OEM's were.
Yes, brake grease should always be used on the slides. But salt and road grime can stick to the grease and cause it to wear off or dirt to adhere to it....thus causing the slides to fail. The mechanic showed me the old slide pins and they had pitting on them, thus putting wear on the caliper rubber which appeared to cause the binding. The rubber inserts were part of the hardware kit. Since my vehicles go through about 3-4 winters between brake changes, I think it's always a good idea to invest a few extra dollars to replace the brake hardware when doing a brake change. And with all German cars, the pads and rotors should both be swapped at every brake change. Pad slaps are not a good idea, especially with the high weight of these cars. German cars use rotors with softer metal that wears down faster than most US and Asian cars. Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, and Porsche all recommend that brakes and rotors always be replaced together every time.
If you use after-market rotors, never buy the drilled or slotted ones. They are almost always made in China and can develop heat or stress cracks, rendering them useless and dangerous, even with very few miles of use on them. The flat surfaced after-market rotors are almost always better when they are neither drilled or slotted, even if the OEM's were.
We got the CPO E350 at Hoffman and the GL320 by private party.
I have never had pitted or scored pins on either one, but did have a pair buggered on the CPO E350 because someone used a hex instead of a Torx on the back. (Probably an MB "mechanic!)
As for pad swaps, as long as the wear surface is flat and not worn beyond the limit it is just fine. the pads will bed into the surface in a few miles, and the rotor is basically pre work hardened. Typically you get two sets of pads to one set of rotors. (Unless you have some other issue.)
I don't know how your slide pins got corroded (unless the shop used the wrong grease, did not replace the rubber, or did not clean the pins. (I lived in Wauconda, so we got plenty of Chicago and Lake County salted roads.)
I am actually fairly disappointed with MB service. They seem to make up for the poor workmanship by over servicing (and over charging).
How many miles are on your GL?
I bought mine in January 2013 with 96K and now have 169K, with about 1/4 to 1/3 of that towing. No seized caliper slides, (hopefully) and no bad calipers.
We put 120K miles on the E350 between 2010 and now, again with no brake part problems. (Reminding myself to start shopping for pads and rotors, because I am sure it is due sometime this summer)
Last edited by N_Jay; 05-21-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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05-21-2019, 05:46 PM
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I used Hoffman (for the little I used any dealer) because I was told they were better than the "Honda Techs" in Barrington. I forgot who told me that, but being as they service a lot of Sprinters, I figured it could not be that far off.
We got the CPO E350 at Hoffman and the GL320 by private party.
I have never had pitted or scored pins on either one, but did have a pair buggered on the CPO E350 because someone used a hex instead of a Torx on the back. (Probably an MB "mechanic!)
As for pad swaps, as long as the wear surface is flat and not worn beyond the limit it is just fine. the pads will bed into the surface in a few miles, and the rotor is basically pre work hardened. Typically you get two sets of pads to one set of rotors. (Unless you have some other issue.)
I don't know how your slide pins got corroded (unless the shop used the wrong grease, did not replace the rubber, or did not clean the pins. (I lived in Wauconda, so we got plenty of Chicago and Lake County salted roads.)
I am actually fairly disappointed with MB service. They seem to make up for the poor workmanship by over servicing (and over charging).
How many miles are on your GL?
I bought mine in January 2013 with 96K and now have 169K, with about 1/4 to 1/3 of that towing. No seized caliper slides, (hopefully) and no bad calipers.
We put 120K miles on the E350 between 2010 and now, again with no brake part problems. (Reminding myself to start shopping for pads and rotors, because I am sure it is due sometime this summer)
We got the CPO E350 at Hoffman and the GL320 by private party.
I have never had pitted or scored pins on either one, but did have a pair buggered on the CPO E350 because someone used a hex instead of a Torx on the back. (Probably an MB "mechanic!)
As for pad swaps, as long as the wear surface is flat and not worn beyond the limit it is just fine. the pads will bed into the surface in a few miles, and the rotor is basically pre work hardened. Typically you get two sets of pads to one set of rotors. (Unless you have some other issue.)
I don't know how your slide pins got corroded (unless the shop used the wrong grease, did not replace the rubber, or did not clean the pins. (I lived in Wauconda, so we got plenty of Chicago and Lake County salted roads.)
I am actually fairly disappointed with MB service. They seem to make up for the poor workmanship by over servicing (and over charging).
How many miles are on your GL?
I bought mine in January 2013 with 96K and now have 169K, with about 1/4 to 1/3 of that towing. No seized caliper slides, (hopefully) and no bad calipers.
We put 120K miles on the E350 between 2010 and now, again with no brake part problems. (Reminding myself to start shopping for pads and rotors, because I am sure it is due sometime this summer)
05-21-2019, 06:03 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Still wondering how you're as needed new calipers with so few miles.
I am trusting Mercedes-Benz service less and less.
the warning is not on steady just every once in awhile when backing up out of a parking space.
I am trusting Mercedes-Benz service less and less.
the warning is not on steady just every once in awhile when backing up out of a parking space.
05-21-2019, 06:22 PM
#10
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You should get those front wheels off and check the inside pads. Hopefully it's just an issue with the sensor.
05-21-2019, 07:43 PM
#11
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Well, I just did the back for about $120, the fronts with rotors will be about 150.
Maybe a touch more and that includes a new sensor new rotor screw if needed, and changing the brake fluid.
Maybe a touch more and that includes a new sensor new rotor screw if needed, and changing the brake fluid.
05-21-2019, 08:14 PM
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So you're obviously not using OEM pads and rotors. I would never put cheap Chinese after-market rotors on my 5800 lb truck, but if it's been working out for you without any problems, then that's good.
05-21-2019, 09:35 PM
#13
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But they may have been StopTech rotors.
Rehoboth Chinese crap your number iPhones come from China too.
You can get whatever quality you want as long as you demand it.
As for the centric stoptech rotors, there are several levels of as long as you don't get the base level they're very good.
How do you know if the rotors they put on I'm Alabama aren't from China?
05-22-2019, 01:18 AM
#14
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I'm not a fan of anything with an Apple on it. My phones are made in South Korea, not China.
If you paid $120 for your aftermarket pads and rotors, then they were definitely manufactured in China. Almost all cheap crap is made there using inferior materials to what is used in the US and Germany. The OEM pads and rotors on the GL are manufactured in Germany. The Germans don't put Chinese garbage on any of their vehicles....not even the lowly A class. Even Brembo has been making their aftermarket stuff in China for several years. It's really sad that these well known companies have sacrificed quality for the cost cutting of Chinese manufacturing and materials. If you are going to buy aftermarket rotors, DO NOT ever buy the cross drilled or slotted versions. The failure rate of those are extremely high. It's safest to stick to the smooth surface rotors as those have a lower failure rate.
StopTech also manufactures almost all of their brake components in China. The exception being their expensive "Big Brake" kit which is supposedly made in the US, but with Chinese slugs that are cut in a US factory.
Textar, Bosch, Meyle, and Akebono also make all of their aftermarket brakes in China. Even if they say "OEM quality", they really aren't even close to that.
You get what you pay for.
If you are looking for a less expensive option to OEM, then you may want to consider Zimmerman, Pagid, or Jurid rotors and pads. They are made in Germany and are OEM equipment on many cars made there. Their failure rates are almost zilch.
If you paid $120 for your aftermarket pads and rotors, then they were definitely manufactured in China. Almost all cheap crap is made there using inferior materials to what is used in the US and Germany. The OEM pads and rotors on the GL are manufactured in Germany. The Germans don't put Chinese garbage on any of their vehicles....not even the lowly A class. Even Brembo has been making their aftermarket stuff in China for several years. It's really sad that these well known companies have sacrificed quality for the cost cutting of Chinese manufacturing and materials. If you are going to buy aftermarket rotors, DO NOT ever buy the cross drilled or slotted versions. The failure rate of those are extremely high. It's safest to stick to the smooth surface rotors as those have a lower failure rate.
StopTech also manufactures almost all of their brake components in China. The exception being their expensive "Big Brake" kit which is supposedly made in the US, but with Chinese slugs that are cut in a US factory.
Textar, Bosch, Meyle, and Akebono also make all of their aftermarket brakes in China. Even if they say "OEM quality", they really aren't even close to that.
You get what you pay for.
If you are looking for a less expensive option to OEM, then you may want to consider Zimmerman, Pagid, or Jurid rotors and pads. They are made in Germany and are OEM equipment on many cars made there. Their failure rates are almost zilch.
Last edited by DaveW68; 05-22-2019 at 01:21 AM.
05-22-2019, 06:23 AM
#15
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I'm not a fan of anything with an Apple on it. My phones are made in South Korea, not China.
If you paid $120 for your aftermarket pads and rotors, then they were definitely manufactured in China. Almost all cheap crap is made there using inferior materials to what is used in the US and Germany. The OEM pads and rotors on the GL are manufactured in Germany. The Germans don't put Chinese garbage on any of their vehicles....not even the lowly A class. Even Brembo has been making their aftermarket stuff in China for several years. It's really sad that these well known companies have sacrificed quality for the cost cutting of Chinese manufacturing and materials. If you are going to buy aftermarket rotors, DO NOT ever buy the cross drilled or slotted versions. The failure rate of those are extremely high. It's safest to stick to the smooth surface rotors as those have a lower failure rate.
StopTech also manufactures almost all of their brake components in China. The exception being their expensive "Big Brake" kit which is supposedly made in the US, but with Chinese slugs that are cut in a US factory.
Textar, Bosch, Meyle, and Akebono also make all of their aftermarket brakes in China. Even if they say "OEM quality", they really aren't even close to that.
You get what you pay for.
If you are looking for a less expensive option to OEM, then you may want to consider Zimmerman, Pagid, or Jurid rotors and pads. They are made in Germany and are OEM equipment on many cars made there. Their failure rates are almost zilch.
If you paid $120 for your aftermarket pads and rotors, then they were definitely manufactured in China. Almost all cheap crap is made there using inferior materials to what is used in the US and Germany. The OEM pads and rotors on the GL are manufactured in Germany. The Germans don't put Chinese garbage on any of their vehicles....not even the lowly A class. Even Brembo has been making their aftermarket stuff in China for several years. It's really sad that these well known companies have sacrificed quality for the cost cutting of Chinese manufacturing and materials. If you are going to buy aftermarket rotors, DO NOT ever buy the cross drilled or slotted versions. The failure rate of those are extremely high. It's safest to stick to the smooth surface rotors as those have a lower failure rate.
StopTech also manufactures almost all of their brake components in China. The exception being their expensive "Big Brake" kit which is supposedly made in the US, but with Chinese slugs that are cut in a US factory.
Textar, Bosch, Meyle, and Akebono also make all of their aftermarket brakes in China. Even if they say "OEM quality", they really aren't even close to that.
You get what you pay for.
If you are looking for a less expensive option to OEM, then you may want to consider Zimmerman, Pagid, or Jurid rotors and pads. They are made in Germany and are OEM equipment on many cars made there. Their failure rates are almost zilch.
My point about Apple is on regard to the quality you can get from Chinese mfg if you demand it.
( I don't by their stuff either)
You hold a lot of beliefs as truths.
05-22-2019, 08:31 AM
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With the exception of home drilled rotors and truly crap parts sold for style, I have never seen a rotor failure.
My point about Apple is on regard to the quality you can get from Chinese mfg if you demand it.
( I don't by their stuff either)
You hold a lot of beliefs as truths.
My point about Apple is on regard to the quality you can get from Chinese mfg if you demand it.
( I don't by their stuff either)
You hold a lot of beliefs as truths.
It's an absolute fact that China uses inferior metals in all of their products and manufacturing tolerances are far inferior to what you see in most other countries. This has been well documented for several decades. But until people stop buying their cheap crap at stores like Wal-Mart and Harbor Freight and buck up for higher cost, higher quality stuff made made in other countries, then nothing is going to change.
05-22-2019, 09:07 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
I can show you lots of proof of brake failure of Chinese rotors and pads. You can see all kinds of evidence of that with a simple Google search or by watching brake comparisons on YouTube. I'd be much more scared of trusting brakes made in China that need to stop a 5800 lb vehicle vs some electronic device you can stick in your pocket...that can be returned to the store if it fails.
It's an absolute fact that China uses inferior metals in all of their products and manufacturing tolerances are far inferior to what you see in most other countries. This has been well documented for several decades. But until people stop buying their cheap crap at stores like Wal-Mart and Harbor Freight and buck up for higher cost, higher quality stuff made made in other countries, then nothing is going to change.
It's an absolute fact that China uses inferior metals in all of their products and manufacturing tolerances are far inferior to what you see in most other countries. This has been well documented for several decades. But until people stop buying their cheap crap at stores like Wal-Mart and Harbor Freight and buck up for higher cost, higher quality stuff made made in other countries, then nothing is going to change.
You sound like the sales guy at the high end dealers parts counter.
Let me ask you a question.
Just how many sets of brakes have you done YOURSELF?
EDIT: Take my front brake job price up about $25 to $50. Seems rotors have gone up.
Rotors $50 each
Pad set with all hardware $50
Fluid $15
Sensor $6
Rotor Screw $2
Brake Clean, Brake Grease and Thread lock - Off the shelf ($5 to be safe) (In case one of the three runs out)
Hand cleaner (Dawn from the kitchen - Free)
$177 out the door
Or I can pay an Indy about $400 to $500, or a Dealer $600 to $750+
And I get a free bonus screwed up part surprise!
Last edited by N_Jay; 05-22-2019 at 09:51 AM.
05-22-2019, 09:44 AM
#18
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I'm not trying to sound like a salesman. I just think an expensive high quality vehicle like a Mercedes should have high quality parts on it...especially something as important as brakes that need to safely bring a 5800 lb car to a stop. I'd have even less faith in aftermarket parts if I were towing a boat or trailer with it. I save a bunch of money by getting the OEM parts online at a heavy discount (just a hair over dealer cost), then take them to my local mechanic to install. That's how you save $500 on a front brake job vs what the dealer charges to install the exact same stuff. For $180 in labor cost at my indy, including shop materials, it's worth letting them do and warranty their work.
05-22-2019, 10:06 AM
#19
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
In the early to late 80's, I used to do all of my own brake jobs and engine work. But I was young and had an interest in learning how things worked. Plus, brake jobs on a '72 Monte Carlo (my first car) and a '78 Toyota Celica were very simple when you have a younger brother eager to pump the brake pedal to push air out of the system. When I started buying new cars in the late 80's, I just left it up to my local mechanic to do that work since it really didn't save me all the much to do it myself and get my hands dirty and cut up. I did do a pad swap on my '06 300 SRT-8 as I got tired quickly of the incredible amount of brake dust that the Brembo brake pads were emitting. It took no more than an hour to do that job in my garage. I sacrificed stopping power with those Centric Posi Quite pads (made in China) vs the stock Brembo pads because I was tired of the wheels getting dirty after only a couple miles of driving.
I'm not trying to sound like a salesman. I just think an expensive high quality vehicle like a Mercedes should have high quality parts on it...especially something as important as brakes that need to safely bring a 5800 lb car to a stop. I'd have even less faith in aftermarket parts if I were towing a boat or trailer with it. I save a bunch of money by getting the OEM parts online at a heavy discount (just a hair over dealer cost), then take them to my local mechanic to install. That's how you save $500 on a front brake job vs what the dealer charges to install the exact same stuff. For $180 in labor cost at my indy, including shop materials, it's worth letting them do and warranty their work.
I'm not trying to sound like a salesman. I just think an expensive high quality vehicle like a Mercedes should have high quality parts on it...especially something as important as brakes that need to safely bring a 5800 lb car to a stop. I'd have even less faith in aftermarket parts if I were towing a boat or trailer with it. I save a bunch of money by getting the OEM parts online at a heavy discount (just a hair over dealer cost), then take them to my local mechanic to install. That's how you save $500 on a front brake job vs what the dealer charges to install the exact same stuff. For $180 in labor cost at my indy, including shop materials, it's worth letting them do and warranty their work.
LOL!! You are not paying $180 and hour, you are probably paying $400 an hour for the Jr. Mechanics assistant to (Mis)install parts priced at twice what you can get them for.
First, check out eh "Flat Rate" hours top do a brake job (What you pay) verses the real time to do the job (what you should pay)
Now check out the cost of the MB part from MB, verses the MB part from someplace like FCP-Euro, Pelican Parts, etc. (Exact same part, much better price)
THEN check out the ATE or other OEM part price (Exact same part, just a different part number) (P.S. the kit will usually come with all hardware, but the dealer will likely charge you at per parts prices)
As for me, I have probably done 100+ sets of brakes over the past 45 years and have ONLY had an issue with fixing problems caused by previous "professional" mechanics.
P.S. I like using hardened coated rotors, as I fond most MFG brand Rotors are not coated and the non-wear surfaces end up rusting.
If you are in a salt state, you probably have to hammer them off the hub. (Usually not the case with coated rotors.)
I also find high end OEM pads to be too soft and dusty for my liking. Pads like the Posi-Quiet give me all the bite I need for road driving, even towing, without making as big a mess of the wheels.
05-22-2019, 10:35 AM
#20
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LOL!! You are not paying $180 and hour, you are probably paying $400 an hour for the Jr. Mechanics assistant to (Mis)install parts priced at twice what you can get them for.
First, check out eh "Flat Rate" hours top do a brake job (What you pay) verses the real time to do the job (what you should pay)
Now check out the cost of the MB part from MB, verses the MB part from someplace like FCP-Euro, Pelican Parts, etc. (Exact same part, much better price)
THEN check out the ATE or other OEM part price (Exact same part, just a different part number) (P.S. the kit will usually come with all hardware, but the dealer will likely charge you at per parts prices)
As for me, I have probably done 100+ sets of brakes over the past 45 years and have ONLY had an issue with fixing problems caused by previous "professional" mechanics.
P.S. I like using hardened coated rotors, as I fond most MFG brand Rotors are not coated and the non-wear surfaces end up rusting.
If you are in a salt state, you probably have to hammer them off the hub. (Usually not the case with coated rotors.)
I also find high end OEM pads to be too soft and dusty for my liking. Pads like the Posi-Quiet give me all the bite I need for road driving, even towing, without making as big a mess of the wheels.
First, check out eh "Flat Rate" hours top do a brake job (What you pay) verses the real time to do the job (what you should pay)
Now check out the cost of the MB part from MB, verses the MB part from someplace like FCP-Euro, Pelican Parts, etc. (Exact same part, much better price)
THEN check out the ATE or other OEM part price (Exact same part, just a different part number) (P.S. the kit will usually come with all hardware, but the dealer will likely charge you at per parts prices)
As for me, I have probably done 100+ sets of brakes over the past 45 years and have ONLY had an issue with fixing problems caused by previous "professional" mechanics.
P.S. I like using hardened coated rotors, as I fond most MFG brand Rotors are not coated and the non-wear surfaces end up rusting.
If you are in a salt state, you probably have to hammer them off the hub. (Usually not the case with coated rotors.)
I also find high end OEM pads to be too soft and dusty for my liking. Pads like the Posi-Quiet give me all the bite I need for road driving, even towing, without making as big a mess of the wheels.
Also, the OEM rotors come zinc coated from the factory. Neither the fronts that just went through a harsh winter nor the rears which are at least 3 years old have even 1 speck of rust anywhere on the non-contact areas. The coatings on the Chinese rotors wear off over time and will begin to rust. OEM Benz rotors don't.
You sound like a salesman trying to push cheap Chinese parts.
I'm here trying to help you with your questions and you are arguing about why Chinese parts are better than OEM stuff. I swear that you argue just because you get off on it or something.
05-22-2019, 10:58 AM
#21
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Sorry, Miss the $180 total, but still it only takes about an hour on a lift and maybe two on jacks. (Flat Rate is a rip off)
So you paid $650
$180 labor, leaving $470 in parts. Ouch! Glad he threw in the shop supplies,. because you needed the brake grease to take that!
So you paid $650
$180 labor, leaving $470 in parts. Ouch! Glad he threw in the shop supplies,. because you needed the brake grease to take that!
05-22-2019, 11:21 AM
#22
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I'm more than happy to pay for quality vs the cheap Chinese garbage that you install on your high mile 11 year old truck. And the fact that you tow a boat with that truck while using that Chinese crap is pretty scary. You should be counting your lucky stars that you haven't had a catastrophic brake failure.....yet.
05-22-2019, 11:55 AM
#23
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Yes, $470 for OEM rotors, pads, brake hardware, and caliper slides....including tax and shipping. This is a brake job on a $110k X166 GL, not a 1990 Chevy Corsica. Benz dealers charge over $1100 for the same thing.
I'm more than happy to pay for quality vs the cheap Chinese garbage that you install on your high mile 11 year old truck. And the fact that you tow a boat with that truck while using that Chinese crap is pretty scary. You should be counting your lucky stars that you haven't had a catastrophic brake failure.....yet.
I'm more than happy to pay for quality vs the cheap Chinese garbage that you install on your high mile 11 year old truck. And the fact that you tow a boat with that truck while using that Chinese crap is pretty scary. You should be counting your lucky stars that you haven't had a catastrophic brake failure.....yet.
Have you ever even seen a cracked rotor, or shattered brake pad??? And I don't mean internet pictures, I mean with your eyes?
Exactly what kind of "Catastrophic brake failure" are you concerned about?
As for MB/Zimmerman zinc paint, it does a fine job resisting rust in shipping, but is complexly gone from the rotors on 6 months to a year.
Not sure why they don't use ATE rotors, as I have had better luck with them.
The Centric 125 rotors paint seems to hold up for the life of the rotor without a problem. The 125 is a harder iron then the 120 and 121 rotors, and seems well worth it.
I see nearly no need for slotted or drilled rotors, but given the choice like slotted for a little extra vapor venting should I actually get pads on the road hot enough to out-gas.
Seems for most it helps wipe the pads in bad weather but also gives the rotor a place to pick up debris to get embedded in the pads (rather rare anyhow).
Even MB says that is the rotors are not grooved and in spec thickness wise they can be reused. Replacing rotors with every pad swap is a waste.
By the way, the sensors typically come on with about 1/5 or 1/4 of the pad left (if you don't believe me, measure the pad thickness and the sensor depth and get back to me), so if pads last 25K to 75K miles You have 5K to 15+K miles left when the light shows up.
As for your terminal "Last Post-it is", you might be one of the few people worse than me, but the last guy who was in competition got permanently banned.
05-22-2019, 02:47 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
05-22-2019, 04:52 PM
#25
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Dude! You are hilarious!
Have you ever even seen a cracked rotor, or shattered brake pad??? And I don't mean internet pictures, I mean with your eyes?
Exactly what kind of "Catastrophic brake failure" are you concerned about?
As for MB/Zimmerman zinc paint, it does a fine job resisting rust in shipping, but is complexly gone from the rotors on 6 months to a year.
Not sure why they don't use ATE rotors, as I have had better luck with them.
The Centric 125 rotors paint seems to hold up for the life of the rotor without a problem. The 125 is a harder iron then the 120 and 121 rotors, and seems well worth it.
I see nearly no need for slotted or drilled rotors, but given the choice like slotted for a little extra vapor venting should I actually get pads on the road hot enough to out-gas.
Seems for most it helps wipe the pads in bad weather but also gives the rotor a place to pick up debris to get embedded in the pads (rather rare anyhow).
Even MB says that is the rotors are not grooved and in spec thickness wise they can be reused. Replacing rotors with every pad swap is a waste.
By the way, the sensors typically come on with about 1/5 or 1/4 of the pad left (if you don't believe me, measure the pad thickness and the sensor depth and get back to me), so if pads last 25K to 75K miles You have 5K to 15+K miles left when the light shows up.
As for your terminal "Last Post-it is", you might be one of the few people worse than me, but the last guy who was in competition got permanently banned.
Have you ever even seen a cracked rotor, or shattered brake pad??? And I don't mean internet pictures, I mean with your eyes?
Exactly what kind of "Catastrophic brake failure" are you concerned about?
As for MB/Zimmerman zinc paint, it does a fine job resisting rust in shipping, but is complexly gone from the rotors on 6 months to a year.
Not sure why they don't use ATE rotors, as I have had better luck with them.
The Centric 125 rotors paint seems to hold up for the life of the rotor without a problem. The 125 is a harder iron then the 120 and 121 rotors, and seems well worth it.
I see nearly no need for slotted or drilled rotors, but given the choice like slotted for a little extra vapor venting should I actually get pads on the road hot enough to out-gas.
Seems for most it helps wipe the pads in bad weather but also gives the rotor a place to pick up debris to get embedded in the pads (rather rare anyhow).
Even MB says that is the rotors are not grooved and in spec thickness wise they can be reused. Replacing rotors with every pad swap is a waste.
By the way, the sensors typically come on with about 1/5 or 1/4 of the pad left (if you don't believe me, measure the pad thickness and the sensor depth and get back to me), so if pads last 25K to 75K miles You have 5K to 15+K miles left when the light shows up.
As for your terminal "Last Post-it is", you might be one of the few people worse than me, but the last guy who was in competition got permanently banned.
I just checked the service records on my truck. It turns about that the rear pads on my truck were replaced at 26k miles in Nov, 2015. I'm currently at 52k miles and it appears that the pads still have quite a bit of life left in them....probably at least another year. Pretty amazing considering how often the traction control kicks in with the power this beast puts out. (Yes, it will spin all 4 wheels on dry roads very easily). Amazingly, they are still the original 6 year old rotors and still don't have a speck of rust on the non-contact surfaces. This was originally a truck from Manhattan, NY, so I'm sure that it's seen more than it's fair share of salt over the last 6 years. So that zinc coating hasn't worn off at all. The rears still have the same zinc coating that the newer fronts have. So that 6 month wear off theory doesn't hold water, at least on OEM Benz rotors. Those rears do have a pretty good sized lip on them though, so there is no chance they would survive another pad slap. I would never try a pad slap on the fronts as those do 80-90% of the braking and wear a lip into the outer edge. I had my mechanic check the front rotors prior to me buying new ones and he said that although they were technically still in spec, a few thousand miles on a new set of pads would take them out of spec and I'd likely have the rotors wear too thin before the pads wore out and pulsation was likely to become an issue. So I just decided to get rotors too. The last brake job by the previous owner had new pads and rotors.
I had my mechanic put Centric rotors and pads on my daughter's '02 Mazda 626 about a year and a half ago. When that job was completed, my mechanic showed me the original rotors and pads. Those pads were literally crumbling in my hands (they looked like they had chunks removed from them), and the front rotors had lots of grooves in them. He said they were not OEM pads or rotors. After just a few months, the new brakes got extremely loud and started vibrating. I took it back to my mechanic to figure out what was wrong and one of the rotors had multiple stress cracks and the pads were getting all chewed up. They replaced that rotor and pads on that wheel under warranty, but said it's not uncommon to see issues like this from time to time with after-market brakes. Fortunately it's only about a 3000 lb car, so nothing catastrophic happened before we could get them swapped out. For the last year that problem hasn't returned, although we just had to have a Centric caliper replaced a few days ago (rear calipers were replaced when the brakes were done) that failed and wore the rear pads on the left side down to the metal. The noise it was making was deafening. Those rotors were all coated when I got them, but all of them have extensive rust on them now.
You can find plenty of videos online showing failures to aftermarket brakes, even the more expensive ones. I'm glad you've had good luck with yours. But I would never put that cheap sh*t on my 5800 lb Benz that's pushing 550 hp and 650 tq. For my daughter's '02 Mazda and my other daughter's '07 Toyota Matrix, those cheap brakes are fine. But as I've shown, those cheap Chinese brakes aren't fool-proof, even on a light car that isn't driven hard.
And I do believe you about the time that the sensor warning comes on. 1/4 to 1/5 pad life left seems about right. I always figure that I have about 3 months to get them changed whenever I see that warning. Unfortunately that sensor only measures the pads on the inside right, so we'd have no clue what the inside left looks like until you get a good look with the wheels off. It's pretty easy to see the outside pads at all 4 corners without removing the wheels.
I think this subject has been pretty well exhausted and all of your questions have been answered. Feel free to have the last word as I don't think there are any unanswered questions that apply to your original post.
