silver_metallic

Just spoke to a service advisor at the dealer and of course, he's never heard of transmission problems on C32's in his 10+ years at MB, blah, blah, blah

I've done an extensive forum search but I couldn't find an answer to this question:

The "jerk" problem is intermittent. It may or may not do it when I take the car in today. Do you guys know if some kind of code will be stored in the ECU from the 1000 other times the car has done this?

The guy already told me that W mode will shift very hard by design so I can't show him that. Is this true?

Thanks for your help!

V12Godspeed

My car was jerking a lot, that sounds freaky...but it is true, Itook it in and they repaired the whole transmission, they replaced clutches and a million other things, they also removed some other codes from the ECU.

Bif powell

For the 2002 model. Not sure about others.

There can be a few causes of this from glycol contamination of the system which can be anything from a fluid flush to an entire tranny/radiator replacement or some problem with the tranny programming from the torque converter which just requires reprogramming


Here's the one for glycol contamination. I'm going to pay to have my dealer do this test to put my mind at ease, and then change the radiator myself if it's not contaminated, or let them fix it if it is - I'm under warranty

TSB below, sorry the pics didn't come across

A/T - Harsh Engagement/Buzzing Noises

Date: February 17, 2005

Order No.: P-B-27.55/50a

Supersedes: P-B-27.55/50 dated January 27, 2005

Group: 27
Revision:
Additional Applicable Models, Parts and Warranty Tables Updated

SUBJECT:
Model 203.040/061/064/065/081/084/261/264/281/284/740/747/764
Model 209.365/375/376/465/475
Model 211.065/070/076/083/265/283

Up to Production Date 09/2003

Harsh Engagement Possibly Followed by Droning/Buzzing Noises During Light Acceleration Between Engine Speed of 1200 - 2500 RPM

If you receive customer reports in the above model vehicles of humming/buzzing noises or noticeable harsh engagement during gentle acceleration between engine speed of 1200 - 2500 rpm; this may be caused by incomplete adaptation of the torque converter, the transmission (EGS) ECU software or glycol contamination of the automatic transmission fluid. Follow the below repair procedures to resolve.
Note: The condition is not intermittent and can be reproduced at all times.

Note: The Glycol test must be performed only if:

a. the vehicle was produced before 09/2003,


b. the radiator is manufactured by "Valeo", refer to Figure 1 for identification.





c. old crimping method used to assemble the radiator end tanks resembles Figure 2.

Caution! It is mandatory to follow the process steps in sequence.

1. Clear all adaption values.

2. Verify if condition is still present

3. If condition is still present after clearing all EGS ECU adaption values, perform glycol test.

4. If condition is no longer present after clearing all EGS ECU adaption values, replace the EGS ECU with updated software with part number listed in the parts information table.

5. If condition reappears after EGS ECU software updates, perform glycol test.

Instructions for Glycol Test
Caution! Ensure that safety glasses and rubber gloves are worn when performing glycol test. This test should be performed in a clean and well ventilated area away from organic materials (rags, cardboard, oils and other chemicals). Refer to the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDs) for additional safety measures.


1. Fill 0.5 ml of ATF with the pipette in the small glass container (Figure 4, 1).

2. Fill with distilled water to 5 ml (Figure 4, 2).

3. Add 1 drop of "Tenside" (Figure 4, 3).

4. Add 1 micro spoon of "Periodic acid" and rock the small glass container (Figure 4, 4).

5. Allow to stand for 5 minutes (Figure 4, 5).

Note: It is essential to comply with the specified standing time in step 5; otherwise the measured value result may be distorted.

6. Add 10 drops of "Natronlauge" or Caustic Soda Solution (Figure 4, 6).

7. Allow to stand for 3 minutes (Figure 4, 7).

Note: It is essential to comply with the specified standing time in step 7; otherwise the measured value result maybe distorted.

8. The sample is now divided into 2 layers; an upper and a lower layer. Immerse the syringe so that the end tip is into the lower layer of the sample and take up approximately 4 ml. of the lower layer using the syringe (Figure 4, 8).

9. Pour the fluid taken up through the filter into a clean small glass container (Figure 4, 9).

10. Immerse test sticks into the filtered solution for approximately 2 seconds, shake the stick and wait for a reaction time of one minute (Figure 4, 10).

11. Compare the color of the test sticks with the color chart on the test stick tube (Figure 4, 11).

Note: The colors of the color chart tube correspond to the amount of glycol contamination of the ATF. After completion of the test, the liquid in the two glass containers should be handled as a hazardous waste. Store in a sealed container and dispose of in accordance with all Federal, state and local hazardous waste regulations.

Perform repair based on the test result:
1. Up to 100 mg/liter of glycol contamination do not perform any repair (considered normal due to condensed water and not a leak).

2. As of 100 mg/liter up to 400 mg/liter of glycol contamination, replace radiator and torque converter. Clean and flush lines.

3. As of 400 mg/liter, replace radiator, torque converter and transmission. Clean and flush lines.



Parts Information
Note: The following allowable labor operations should be used when submitting a warranty claim for this repair.

Bif powell

More recent TSB

A/T - Rough Converter Engagement/Droning/Buzzing Noise

Date: January 10, 2005

Order No.: P-B-27.60/43

Supersedes:

Group: 27
SUBJECT:
Model 170.466

Model 203.040/065/740

Model 211.065/070/076/082/083/265/282/283

Model 215.374

Model 220.174

Model 230.474/476

Torque Converter Clutch Rough Engagement and/or Droning/Buzzing

If you receive customer reports in the above model vehicles that during acceleration and/or constant drive there is a noticeable jerk, possibly followed by a droning/buzzing, adapt the torque converter clutch as per the below procedure. This may be caused by a lack of/or inadequate adaption of the torque converter clutch. This particularly applies in cases where there is less than 6,000 miles accrued on the torque converter or transmission control unit.
1. Read engine coolant temperature out with Star Diagnosis [Cars > Vehicle Type > control units > ME > Actual Values > Test engine at idle speed].

2. Start the engine (cold start, over-night), select D with the shifter and hold the vehicle at idle speed for 20 seconds by depressing the brake pedal.

3. Start driving the vehicle between 30-40 mph on level ground using the cruise control. With SDS, observe the engine coolant temperature until the engine coolant temperature has risen approx. 10 degrees Farenheit.

Warning! Hazardous procedure for one technician alone.

4. Stop driving and hold the vehicle in "D" at idle speed for 20 seconds by depressing the brake pedal.

5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 with each engine coolant temperature increase of about 10 degrees Farenheit until the operating temperature levels out.

6. After reaching a transmission oil temperature of 80 degrees Celsius, continue driving between 30-40 mph, on level ground for 10 minutes cumulatively using the cruise control to maintain consistant engine load.

Note : The following allowable labor operations should be used when submitting a warranty claim for this repair.

silver_metallic

I appreciate the input! I'll print this and take it to my well-informed service advisor. I just hope he does't deny that these bulletins exist and are not fabricated.

Bif powell

The story that I got from my first service advisor was *condescending voice* "Our guy drove it and he felt the jerking you mention, but he said it was normal, you see, these high performance cars hunt and seek for gears all the time, and that's just how these high performance cars are". Sucks because this guy is like RIGHT next to my office and the nearest competitor is about 10 miles away.

That 10 mile away guy called and said "Yeah, there's a bulletin out for it, we'll have it ready to pick up in 30 minutes."

I guess it's the capitalist in me, I just switch until I find one I like, I don't go back. You really want THAT guy working on your car if you have to tell him how/what to do?

silver_metallic

Ok, so I took the car in and their transmission expert took out for a drive. Apparently in his career, not a single C32 tranny problem has been seen.

He hooked up the machine to it and said there are no codes. No codes = nothing is wrong. He was very skeptical regarding my concern.

He told me that the glycol test and ECU replacement DO NOT apply to AMG cars and therefore, he would not perform either one.

Time to go to another dealer. Sad thing is, these people are supposed to be the best in Atlanta.

sdsilverm3

Sad to say but the first thing dealers will do is plead ignorance. Even when you present them with a service bulletin they'll say there's nothing wrong. If you have a couple dealers within your area just play them like they try to play you. Once you find one that is willing to help you out in a satisfactory manner then establish a relationship with one service advisor and one tech otherwise it's like trying to win the lottery everytime you go in for something.

Bif powell

FWIW, several people on these boards have had both of these problems with their AMGs and I'm one of them.

More importantly, this board represents the tiniest fraction of C32 owners out there - imagine how wide-spread some of these problems might be.

NY C32

My suggestion print out Bif Powell's post and bring the car back to that same dealer where the SA so confidently waived you off. I brought in the car when I started to notice this problem and I printed another one of Bif's posts just in case my SA didn't know what I was talking about. He knew about it and took care of it.

Its no secret that the 02 and early 03 C32's have this problem. I would rub it into this no-it-all service advisor. I would then follow up with the service manager and have a smug remark like "10+ years at M-B and your service advisor can't read a TSB? Maybe I should find another service advisor with more experience"

I would be pissed if I had a ****y SA like yours

silver_metallic

You guys are awesome, thanks for all the support! I will take up the conversation with Bif's TSB and see where it gets me with these idiots.

It blows my mind that dealers will turn down free money. My car is fully warranted by a third party, not MB. The problem exists and yet they look at me like I'm stupid for saying the transmission jerks.

Wish me the best. I'm driving a loaner Taurus with like 50,000 miles on the clock. Sad thing is they put big embarrassing stickers on the back saying "compliments of MB"

SteveL1

I stoped by the local MB dealer today to ask the service advisor a couple of questions about a C32 that I'm looking to buy and asked him about the transmition issue. He said that they have seen a few come through and replaced the trans/radiator per the service bullitin. Strange thing was that he said that one of them was an '04 and that as far as he knew, there were no specific build dates that were affected more than others. He said that they are all subject to this, but as long as you are under warranty it should be all good.

Bif powell

One more thing - the adaptation might be different for everyone, but mine was more pronounced in W mode under slow acceleration, so try that too and see what you get. I still felt/saw it in S mode, but you had to work the throttle a certain way to make it obvious, in W it was ALL the time.

jayitx

Reading these posts got me paranoid, so I had to check out mine. It was manufactured 10/2003 (pretty close), and it does also have a Valeo radiator. I have noticed lately that a couple of times I felt a little 'kick' while driving slowly, but pretty much ignored it. Now I'm not so sure. I'm going to try 'w' mode today and see. I just had Service A done yesterday (35,300 miles on my 2004 C32) but I didn't mention this problem. I'll be going back next week though so I think I'll bring it up and see what they say.

BTW, I think my dealer is pretty good. I'm using Ewing Autohaus in Plano, TX. I told them I'll probably need brakes very soon so they can change them if they need it. Instead of changing them and charging me a bundle, they called and told me I have 33% left and they're fine! 35000 miles and still the original brakes!! Also, I got a 2006 C230 for a loaner. Not a bad car. I like the instrument cluster, but the rest of the interior looks pretty cheap. And obviously it doesn't come close to the C32 in terms of power. The 7-speed was nice though.

timberman

it seems almost everyone with a c32 has or has had this problem.
I've had the same trouble for the past 4/5 months and have had the car back at the dealers on several occasions to try and get it sorted with very similar responses

after reading this thread and the others i have asked them to do the glycol test, and so today i took the car in and they took an oil sample to be sent for tests.

hopefully this will prove to be the answer as my warranty runs out in just a few weeks

SiLvaC32

i had the problem also, mine was a 03!! we replaced the whole tranny/radiator/torque converter. it was about 7Gs in warranty work.

ultraseven

but I've had the jerk problem for quite some time. The thing is, it goes away after the car warms up so it really only lasts for a short time.

I have however, from time to time experienced the "kick" at different speeds, but only at cruising speeds and just as I push the pedal down a bit. It isn't an abrupt, pronounced move, which will always set off the supercharger. Has anyone had this symptom?

FYI my car has close to 35K miles.

jayitx

I mentioned a kick in my post below, so I think I've had the same problem. Mine is also a 2004 and has about 35K miles on it. It happens while driving fairly slowly, for example in morning traffic. I've had it 'kick' when touching the gas pedal and also when taking my foot off the gas pedal. It's definitely noticeable when it happens.

I'm definitely telling them about it next week.

Bif powell

Just remember is can be glycol contamination OR tranny programming. It's possible it's something else on all these cars, but these two problems are so common that it's good bet to check it out.

Please keep the group updated on everyone's experience with this issue!

DL_AMG

I have the same problem while the car is cold and driving between 35-45mph every morning now. I printed out the Bif_powell's TSB bring in the car in this wk for the problem plus the recent recall on 2ndary air-pump and Service-A. Will post some update when car return.

bViC

i have the same problem as well, with mine you only feel a jerk while accelerating slowly from a stand still, you would feel a slight kick, but only between like 1500-2000rpm's. im taking it in friday for that, and i think my I/C pump went out, i lost power at like 118, felt like i went into neutral.

DL_AMG

Just called and checked on the status. (my advisor is not very pro-active) My car needs a new torque converter and radiator (no new tranny, yet) and all coolant related parts need to be flush and clean.
Looks like my service advisor is not technical at all…I ask why, he doesn’t seem to know anything…so sad. I asked why the tranny wasn’t replaced, and he said, that what they can do first.
So here is my questions, if later they need to replace the tranny, do they have to replace the torque converter and radiator again? I will assume all units had been contaminated again.

ultraseven

You are lucky if you get a techinical one. For the most part, these guys are trained to only tell what they need to. Mine sometimes just hides in the office, and I sure hope he ain't wanking off for the rest of the day.

Coming from my old car to this one, what kind of a service improvement do I get?

1) Better coffee
2) Loaner car - Enterprise outsourced

For about 35K more, at least get someone a bit better than Al Bundy.

silver_metallic

It amazes me how dumb dealership folks can be. That's not a glaring generalization, it's a fact that I can attest to from personal experience.

Before I test drove a C55...

ME: How many horsepower does this thing have (just testing his knowledge)?
SALESGUY: I don't know, but we have some great lease rates on it.

ME: I miss the torque of a V8, considering buying this.
SALESGUY: Oh, these things have a V8?


ME: A lot of C32 owners have had transmission problems.
Master Tech: I've been fixing MB's for 15 years. Never heard of this problem. (AFTER reading the bulletin I handed him)....OH, this does not apply to your car.


And then here's the kicker... most of these people can make over $150K just by telling you stories.

I've given up on dealers, they're a headache.

silver_metallic

I got fed up with the MB's handling of my tranny problems and took matters into my own hands...I bought a used transmission control unit off of ebay.

The 1500rpm jerk is gone. It took me about 10 minutes to replace the $60.00 TCU. Shifts are smooth and consistent, given the updated 2003 software.

I suggest this route for anyone who...

• Has a 2002 C32 with the jerk problem
• Is out of warranty or does not want to use the dealer
• Does not have glycol contamination

While C32 TCU's are hard to come by on ebay, most German car salvage places would be more than glad to sell you a used one.

You can also get your existing unit reflashed for about $400.00. Remember, this fix only works for 2002 C32's. Later models already have the updated TCU.

The part number for the updated TCU is 032 545 12 32