c230 engine harness oil - issue

[emmruiz]

So my check engine light turns on, I take it to get a oil chnage since it needed it. The guy tells me there is oil in the hardness and I was able to find a pic from other threads " http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/9461/w203ln5.jpg " and right where the orange circle is he removed those connectors and there was some oil. And the error being put out was o2 sensor "PO136 / PO141". He quoted 3.000 for fixing this. He claims the following need to be replaced Engine Harness Cam shaft adjusters M.E control unit o2 sensors down stream What a mess, i see this is a common thing in these cars after 50.000K mines just turned 54.000

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[dmatre]

Unfortunately, it is quite common.

I got MB to cover the parts, but had to pay labor. Luckily, I had all my services done at the dealer, so I had a little bit of leverage. Maybe you can get them to do the same. Saved me around $1300.

[emmruiz]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Unfortunately, it is quite common.

I got MB to cover the parts, but had to pay labor. Luckily, I had all my services done at the dealer, so I had a little bit of leverage. Maybe you can get them to do the same. Saved me around $1300.

How exactly did you get MB to cover the parts?

Was your car over 50.000k/4year?

[C230 Sport Coup]

HierKrantz I think is the username...I think he posted a DIY on removing the harness...
soak in solvent, let it dry out, replace the cam sensors (not adjusters I don't think )
the short harness that protects the main harness,
and then what...uh, I guess replace the 02 sensor(S), or trying soaking them?
Also pull the ECU, and clean it real good too.

All this can be done DIY with basic tools just takes a while. I had read it was a total of about 8 hours of labor, but the total cost was less than $300.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by emmruiz

How exactly did you get MB to cover the parts?

Was your car over 50.000k/4year?

I explained to them that the reason that I had all of the services done at the dealer was just to avoid a problem such as this. They know that the problem exists, they have engineered a solution involving the cable extension - yet they didn't install this, or even offer it to me as 'preventive maintenance'.

After about 20 minutes of explaining my position, that I felt they should have either installed the pigtails, or at least offered them to me - to fix a problem that MB and the dealer is well aware of, they got MB to cover the parts if I paid the labor.

Hope it works for you too! If not, I would consider following the instructions and cleaning it myself (if you are mechanically inclined).

[Glyn M Ruck]

Common problem. Raise merry hell with Benz & ensure that the pigtales are fitted when the drama is sorted.

[pogijeffrey]

where could i get those extension cables for less?

[emmruiz]

Originally Posted by C230 Sport Coup

HierKrantz I think is the username...I think he posted a DIY on removing the harness...
soak in solvent, let it dry out, replace the cam sensors (not adjusters I don't think )
the short harness that protects the main harness,
and then what...uh, I guess replace the 02 sensor(S), or trying soaking them?
Also pull the ECU, and clean it real good too.

All this can be done DIY with basic tools just takes a while. I had read it was a total of about 8 hours of labor, but the total cost was less than $300.

Did a search and i come to find this happens alot, i am suprised MB has not done something to help people with this. This makes people never want to buy a MB again.

Does anyone know where i can find DIY on removing the harness? Couldnt find it on my sear on the forum, but i bet it exisit.

[Bogger]

Originally Posted by emmruiz

Did a search and i come to find this happens alot, i am suprised MB has not done something to help people with this. This makes people never want to buy a MB again.

Does anyone know where i can find DIY on removing the harness? Couldnt find it on my sear on the forum, but i bet it exisit.

Dealing with this issue thru MB Canada as we speak... So far it has been frustrating and I am in the "never want to buy a benz again" mentality... Never had such issues dealing with BMW.... apparently a 7 year old Mercedes this is to be expected...funny my BMW was 15 years old with almost 300K Km and was trouble free.

A service campaign was issued in the US... but not recognized in other markets..

FILE:
SERVICE: GROUP 00 OF SERVICE INFORMATION BINDER
PARTS: GROUP I OF INFORMATION _ PARTS & ACCESSORIES BINDER

Campaign No. 2009100001, December 2009
TO: ALL MERCEDES-BENZ CENTERS
SUBJECT:
Models 170/203, Model Years 2001 - 2004 / 2002 - 2004

Replace the Camshaft Adjustment Solenoid(s) and Install Adapter Harness(es)
Revision Date Purposea 12/15/09 Inclusion of reimbursement information- 12/04/09 Initial issue
This Service Campaign has been initiated because Daimler AG (DAG), the manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, has determined that due to the settling properties of the seal of the camshaft adjustment solenoid specification, oil may enter the engine wiring harness (es) through the electrical connection of the camshaft adjustment solenoid from capillary action. Dealers will replace the camshaft adjustment solenoid(s) and install an additional adapter connector harness (es) at the next workshop visit.
Prior to performing this Service Campaign:
^Please check VMI to determine if the vehicle is involved in the Campaign and if it has been previously repaired.
^Please review the entire Service Campaign bulletin and follow the repair procedure exactly as described.
Please note that Recall and Service Campaigns do not expire and may also be performed on a vehicle with a vehicle status indicator.
Approximately 66,113 vehicles are affected.

To date mercedes has offered up to pay for 50% of the parts ($2000) while I'm on the hook for 50% parts plus labor ($4300).... It's going in for a second opinion to another dealer... I figure if the ECU, MAF sensor, O2 sensors X2, wiring harness X2 (one at $578) etc.etc.etc... were all shot the car would not run...and it does.

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by Bogger

Dealing with this issue thru MB Canada as we speak... So far it has been frustrating and I am in the "never want to buy a benz again" mentality... Never had such issues dealing with BMW.... apparently a 7 year old Mercedes this is to be expected...funny my BMW was 15 years old with almost 300K Km and was trouble free.

A service campaign was issued in the US... but not recognized in other markets..

FILE:
SERVICE: GROUP 00 OF SERVICE INFORMATION BINDER
PARTS: GROUP I OF INFORMATION _ PARTS & ACCESSORIES BINDER

Campaign No. 2009100001, December 2009
TO: ALL MERCEDES-BENZ CENTERS
SUBJECT:
Models 170/203, Model Years 2001 - 2004 / 2002 - 2004

Replace the Camshaft Adjustment Solenoid(s) and Install Adapter Harness(es)
Revision Date Purposea 12/15/09 Inclusion of reimbursement information- 12/04/09 Initial issue
This Service Campaign has been initiated because Daimler AG (DAG), the manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, has determined that due to the settling properties of the seal of the camshaft adjustment solenoid specification, oil may enter the engine wiring harness (es) through the electrical connection of the camshaft adjustment solenoid from capillary action. Dealers will replace the camshaft adjustment solenoid(s) and install an additional adapter connector harness (es) at the next workshop visit.
Prior to performing this Service Campaign:
^Please check VMI to determine if the vehicle is involved in the Campaign and if it has been previously repaired.
^Please review the entire Service Campaign bulletin and follow the repair procedure exactly as described.
Please note that Recall and Service Campaigns do not expire and may also be performed on a vehicle with a vehicle status indicator.
Approximately 66,113 vehicles are affected.

To date mercedes has offered up to pay for 50% of the parts ($2000) while I'm on the hook for 50% parts plus labor ($4300).... It's going in for a second opinion to another dealer... I figure if the ECU, MAF sensor, O2 sensors X2, wiring harness X2 (one at $578) etc.etc.etc... were all shot the car would not run...and it does.

Hi, did you get it fixed, how much did it cost ?, did you sue them ? i m about since I brought my car for service A, B's, Cylinder head change, and a zillion bill in my hand, some covered by warranty, some not, and they knew all the time but never called me to do a repair to avoid this, and to say I LOVED my car so much, I hate Mercedes-Benz now so much, and I took it really personnal, invested so much in this ****, will never buy an MB or any other german crap for that matter, lousy service, I have made one the most watched online review of the C230 Kompressor on Youtube with such a passion, but i'll make sure to inform the viewers of the great potential defects this car has, the whole thing should be a recall, repairs are more expensive than the car itself, it's a joke, The Best or Nothing my as@@ , now I understand a joke a mechanic to his colleague said, 2 years ago i brought it for shaking (again) at idle, as I was watching the mechanic at MB look at the engine, a bunch of colleagues came to him and gestured in the sense telling him trough the whole engine out if you want to repair it, I thought it was a normal joke but I guess they knew what a nightmare it was and never told me:

You Tube

You Tube

[amanonfire]

This is why I warn anyone in Canada not to even look at a 2003-2005 C230 that does not have the cam isolation wires installed. Let someone else deal with the issues.

It is a shame MB Canada won't honor many of the recalls MB USA does, and worse even the TSBs for these issues list a subset of 2003-2005 C230 VINs, while we all know it affects every M271 as they use the same cam actuators. Hell it even affects the M111 and other MB models.

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

This is why I warn anyone in Canada not to even look at a 2003-2005 C230 that does not have the cam isolation wires installed. Let someone else deal with the issues.

It is a shame MB Canada won't honor many of the recalls MB USA does, and worse even the TSBs for these issues list a subset of 2003-2005 C230 VINs, while we all know it affects every M271 as they use the same cam actuators. Hell it even affects the M111 and other MB models.

cam isolation wires ? or new cylinder heads ? or cylinder head gasket ? or ignition coils, or spark plugs, or thermostat, or control arms, or shocks, or springs, or injectors ? MB should take the whole car back and refund the full price paid to customers or change the whole engine by a different one. may be that will do.

[Bogger]

Had all the electrical done, MB Canada covered $2k in parts, my tab was $3700, then we discovered a coolant leak into the tranny, hard shifting in summer mode, we keep it in winter and it seems to be not getting worse, bill for rad replacement and tranny flush was $1200-ish. Drove it for a year basically trouble free (brakes oil changes etc...maintenance stuff)

Now at 119K km it seems the supercharger is hooped and MB reccomends a new unit at $3500.

Smaller private shop quoted me $600 for labor and the wife has tracked down a rebuilt unit with 2 years waranty for $600... $1200 isn't bad but it is frustrating that we have had to put so much money into a car with under 75000 miles......

My wife loves driving it but the repair costs are getting out of hand, costs more to keep it running than it's worth...

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by Bogger

Had all the electrical done, MB Canada covered $2k in parts, my tab was $3700, then we discovered a coolant leak into the tranny, hard shifting in summer mode, we keep it in winter and it seems to be not getting worse, bill for rad replacement and tranny flush was $1200-ish. Drove it for a year basically trouble free (brakes oil changes etc...maintenance stuff)

Now at 119K km it seems the supercharger is hooped and MB reccomends a new unit at $3500.

Smaller private shop quoted me $600 for labor and the wife has tracked down a rebuilt unit with 2 years waranty for $600... $1200 isn't bad but it is frustrating that we have had to put so much money into a car with under 75000 miles......

My wife loves driving it but the repair costs are getting out of hand, costs more to keep it running than it's worth...

wow, i feel bad for all the repairs you had to do, why don't you get rid of it, there a lot of cars that offer great driving experience without the repair bills, I understand your wife, but at some point it's too much, this is the most unreliable car/junk/thing/object/matter I've owned in my life..

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by senuoy

cam isolation wires ? or new cylinder heads ? or cylinder head gasket ? or ignition coils, or spark plugs, or thermostat, or control arms, or shocks, or springs, or injectors ? MB should take the whole car back and refund the full price paid to customers or change the whole engine by a different one. may be that will do.

I have a lot of hate for this engine too, yet it is not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. If the vacuum lines (aka $12 hose) and cam isolation wires are taken care of, the other issues are few and far between.

The cylinder head issue (aka sticking valves) is caused by carbon build up, which is exasperated by the vaccum line and cam actuator leak issue, or just by lazy MB owners putting around town and never opening it up (aka the Italian tune up). The timing chain seems to be the most recent catastrophic issue, yet seems to scream "fix me" by rattling at startup which most owners ignore.

Maintain these cars and they'll last a long time. Coils, spark plugs and shocks are wear and tear items. Injectors are a bad gas issue or "lady driven" issue usually". Control arm bushings are just a terrible design that wear faster than usual.

If you were thinking a used car would drive smooth as new with no maintenance required, you were mistaken.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Bogger

Now at 119K km it seems the supercharger is hooped and MB reccomends a new unit at $3500.

Smaller private shop quoted me $600 for labor and the wife has tracked down a rebuilt unit with 2 years waranty for $600... $1200 isn't bad but it is frustrating that we have had to put so much money into a car with under 75000 miles......

I have a used SC from my old engine I'd let go for $200. It had ~90K miles on it.

First, are you sure a local shop cannot rebuild your current SC?

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

I have a lot of hate for this engine too, yet it is not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be. If the vacuum lines (aka $12 hose) and cam isolation wires are taken care of, the other issues are few and far between.

The cylinder head issue (aka sticking valves) is caused by carbon build up, which is exasperated by the vaccum line and cam actuator leak issue, or just by lazy MB owners putting around town and never opening it up (aka the Italian tune up). The timing chain seems to be the most recent catastrophic issue, yet seems to scream "fix me" by rattling at startup which most owners ignore.

Maintain these cars and they'll last a long time. Coils, spark plugs and shocks are wear and tear items. Injectors are a bad gas issue or "lady driven" issue usually". Control arm bushings are just a terrible design that wear faster than usual.

If you were thinking a used car would drive smooth as new with no maintenance required, you were mistaken.

so take a 3 year mechanic course, or language course to understand the sounds of whales before buying the car, who said it was used? and maintenance was done at the dealer, what about MB, bench of idiots for not understanding the sounds when i go pay them 650$ for service B's ?, no I believe the crap is junk from the design papers and so is their customer service / philosophy and accountability. I loved my car and I stuck to it in repairs for 4 years, but when finding out parts were re-engineered and the dealer never talking about it while you have warranty or suggesting things to avoid future damage than I see nothing but Ill fated business, and for lady driven stuff, My wife doesn't understand me for making sure which gas station I go every time before putting it in my so called precious drive, she thought I was crazy or fanatic about my car, maintenance was followed religiously at the dealer, washed the car monthly with wax, and to put things into perspective : the cylinder head repair is 10.000$, thank god it was under warranty back than, yet I still had issues and they kept giving me the car back saying ( could not recreate issue ) , I had to go to Justanswer website to talk to a British mechanic who gave me the list of recalls to be done back than, after bringing it to MB they were embarrassed for neglecting me and proceeded with few recalls, but every time you show up to the dealer it's a nightmare service, so I tried 3 other ones, all the same genetic unfortunately and formula : You have warranty = repair less, Warranty Over= start bringing up the real stuff $$$$ and ask the cust to pay.

[Bogger]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

I have a used SC from my old engine I'd let go for $200. It had ~90K miles on it.

First, are you sure a local shop cannot rebuild your current SC?

They said they do not rebuild them, apparently it's an art...

$600 with 2 year waranty is reasonable as far as I'm concerned, but there seems to be some confusion regarding clutched or non-clutched. My understanding is that there is only 1 available SC unit for this engine so I don't know where this confusion stems from.

[Bogger]

Originally Posted by senuoy

wow, i feel bad for all the repairs you had to do, why don't you get rid of it, there a lot of cars that offer great driving experience without the repair bills, I understand your wife, but at some point it's too much, this is the most unreliable car/junk/thing/object/matter I've owned in my life..

Doesn't make sense to sell, we paid $13500 for the car still owe $11K and could only sell for possibly $8K with the SC repaired. I guess the internal optimist in me hopes that with the new electrical/sensor banks, new rad, now the SC, the car will give us another 3-5 years of service.

Even with the repairs we are better off than those who buy a $40K vehicle drive it for 3 years and see $25K in depreciation. I had just hoped it would prove as solid and reliable as my BMW was, I still swear by those things and will be picking up an e46 M3 next year.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Bogger

Even with the repairs we are better off than those who buy a $40K vehicle drive it for 3 years and see $25K in depreciation. I had just hoped it would prove as solid and reliable as my BMW was, I still swear by those things and will be picking up an e46 M3 next year.

I've got a BMW now, and they are no better although I knew what I was getting into unlike people who bought new only to find out the rear subframe rips the sheet metal out of the car

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by senuoy

I loved my car and I stuck to it in repairs for 4 years, but when finding out parts were re-engineered and the dealer never talking about it while you have warranty or suggesting things to avoid future damage

All manufacturers have moved to this business model. I was lucky to own my MB while they still fixed everything regardless if I even noticed it - yet that changed many years ago to only fixing what the customer complains about.

I agree its ****ty, yet don't think you're going to avoid it by blasting MB and switching brands. You're better off learning more about cars and reading forums like this to avoid potential issues.

Originally Posted by senuoy

she thought I was crazy or fanatic about my car, maintenance was followed religiously at the dealer, washed the car monthly with wax

Now you've learned she was right. There's no reason to pay extra for maintenance at the dealership, and wax should last longer than a month.

Originally Posted by senuoy

so take a 3 year mechanic course, or language course to understand the sounds of whales before buying the car

It doesn't take a mechanic to realize a car sounds different than before. New noises should be investigated, yet most ignore them to their peril.

Originally Posted by senuoy

and maintenance was done at the dealer, what about MB, bench of idiots for not understanding the sounds when i go pay them 650$ for service B's ?

Service B is not $650, if you paid that much your stealership screwed you. Lookup what Service B includes, you'll find its not as comprehensive as most think.

Originally Posted by senuoy

and to put things into perspective : the cylinder head repair is 10.000$

I know you're upset and being dramatic, yet my engine swap was only $7K. $10K to replace the head is only at dealer inflated prices. Find a good independent shop, stop using the dealer.

Originally Posted by senuoy

You have warranty = repair less, Warranty Over= start bringing up the real stuff $$$$ and ask the cust to pay.

Sad to say, you're going to learn another important lesson here: My car has the same cam actuator leak which fouled the O2 sensors. This was prior to the TSB being widely known, so the dealer just replaced the O2 sensors without even questioning why oil dripped out the connector.

Warranty doesn't help. In my case it just prolonged the problem and made it worse till eventually my warranty ran out.

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by Bogger

Doesn't make sense to sell, we paid $13500 for the car still owe $11K and could only sell for possibly $8K with the SC repaired. I guess the internal optimist in me hopes that with the new electrical/sensor banks, new rad, now the SC, the car will give us another 3-5 years of service.

Even with the repairs we are better off than those who buy a $40K vehicle drive it for 3 years and see $25K in depreciation. I had just hoped it would prove as solid and reliable as my BMW was, I still swear by those things and will be picking up an e46 M3 next year.

I hear you, good luck, hope it last longer with the repairs, as for me, it costed 23k to buy, a book of repair bills, and a long lousy customer service.., good luck.

[senuoy]

Originally Posted by amanonfire

All manufacturers have moved to this business model. I was lucky to own my MB while they still fixed everything regardless if I even noticed it - yet that changed many years ago to only fixing what the customer complains about.

I agree its ****ty, yet don't think you're going to avoid it by blasting MB and switching brands. You're better off learning more about cars and reading forums like this to avoid potential issues.


Now you've learned she was right. There's no reason to pay extra for maintenance at the dealership, and wax should last longer than a month.


It doesn't take a mechanic to realize a car sounds different than before. New noises should be investigated, yet most ignore them to their peril.


Service B is not $650, if you paid that much your stealership screwed you. Lookup what Service B includes, you'll find its not as comprehensive as most think.


I know you're upset and being dramatic, yet my engine swap was only $7K. $10K to replace the head is only at dealer inflated prices. Find a good independent shop, stop using the dealer.


Sad to say, you're going to learn another important lesson here: My car has the same cam actuator leak which fouled the O2 sensors. This was prior to the TSB being widely known, so the dealer just replaced the O2 sensors without even questioning why oil dripped out the connector.

Warranty doesn't help. In my case it just prolonged the problem and made it worse till eventually my warranty ran out.

I live in Canada, here we pay double for everything, go figure why, government policies, no one complaining or a bunch of reasons combined but yes 650$ tax in is what it use to cost me for service B. and the car costs 47k+ tax new, I m not mad at you certainly, but about changing brand yes definitely, will teach it even to my grand kids not to buy MB or any other unreliable car for that matter, no self respecting human should endure this reliability or customer service, we pay double for what a similar should cost, this is called premium brands, beside the logo now, what do we get more than a scion TC, Honda Civic SI, or the upcoming Scion FR-S at 20000$ ? the Logo is what we get.

[C230 Sport Coup]

Swapping the supercharger is not so hard.
Find a core like the one listed at $200.
Send it out to Magnacharger or any of the other Supercharger remanufacturing companies,
such as Steigmeirer. (Spelling) full rebuild is about 250-400.
Then sell yours as a core for the next guy. Thats what I did at 120K.
I just decided to do everything I'd need to do for the next 100K miles, and it seems to be working.
Knock on wood. Superchargers are designed to last ~100K miles according to Eaton.
After that it's basically a matter of replacing rubber couplers in the snout, putting in new oil, replacing bearings and verifying clearances are within tolerance.

All are slightly different but FYI you have an Eaton M45 Supercharger installed in an M271 engine. On my engine R&R the SC is about a 2-3 hour job DIY and I am not a mechanic, I've learned through experience and researching stuff in advance, and tapping the shoulders of mechanics at the shops.
The only hard part was using the socket wrench universals to get around corners and loosen the bolts.

As far as oil in the harness, are you saying you have it?
Is your cam sensor leaking?

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by senuoy

I live in Canada, here we pay double for everything, go figure why, government policies, no one complaining or a bunch of reasons combined but yes 650$ tax in is what it use to cost me for service B.

I live in Canada too, and Service B was $380 when I stopped doing services at the stealership.

Originally Posted by senuoy

will teach it even to my grand kids not to buy MB or any other unreliable car for that matter

Might as well tell them to take the bus then. I used to be upset at MB and vowed never to drive one again, and won't for a long time. After looking around for a new car I realized they are all the same. The lesson learned is to:
1. Do your homework before buying, and forums like this help immensely.
2. Do not buy the first few years of a new platform/engine. Let other suckers be the guinea pigs for manufacturers to workout kinks.
3. Do not service your vehicle at a dealership. Overpriced for what you get. Find a good indy mechanic.

Originally Posted by senuoy

we pay double for what a similar should cost, this is called premium brands, beside the logo now, what do we get more than a scion TC, Honda Civic SI, or the upcoming Scion FR-S at 20000$ ? the Logo is what we get.

Unfortunately that's our fault, not the stealership. A Mazda 3 can be had with almost all the features of my C230 for 2/3s of the cost - yet I don't want to drive a Mazda 3 and instead bought a used BMW M3 and inherited the potential of more problems