C36 AMG, C43 AMG (W202) 1995 - 2000

Rear Thrust/Torque Arms

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
Old 05-20-2015, 09:04 PM
  #1  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
Rear Thrust/Torque Arms

A few weeks after my last track day my C43 started steeping the back end out under acceleration. Having had a bit of a run on damaged torque arm bushes I just parked it until I had some time to get to it. Yesterday I finally had some spare time and found something that I certainly wasn't expecting.

It has somehow managed to bend BOTH torque arms in exactly the same way. I've seen plenty of worn bushes but NEVER a bent arm other then due to accident damage. I was intending on fitting a set of aftermarket arms but decided not to until I work this one out.

Has anyone else ever bent a rear torque arm? I cant imagine it's due to the 55 conversion, I've also got a W210 E55 with over 200k kms with the original arms and it doesn't have a problem.

Any thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3457.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3459.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3460.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3461.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3462.jpg  

Old 05-20-2015, 09:24 PM
  #2  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
cm60k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A.D., U.A.E
Posts: 7,034
Likes: 0
Received 384 Likes on 349 Posts
00 C200 & 00 C55 & 06 SLK55
If bushings not got loose, it could be something happens to axle bearings or diff. mounts or diff. interior bearings/gears went bad..!!

ZAYED,,
Old 05-20-2015, 09:46 PM
  #3  
Super Member
 
Super B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
'97 c36
Wow aus, that's crazy!!! It's hard to believe... Any chance some body shipped your car at some point and they chained the car at that point?

One would think the tires would break loose before making the kind of forces to do that. Pretty impressive
Old 05-21-2015, 07:12 AM
  #4  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Sulaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,367
Received 180 Likes on 147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
holy crap I think this is what I've been chasing with my C43! the rear end is doing the same thing and I didn't even know to look for this!
Old 05-21-2015, 02:43 PM
  #5  
Super Member
 
Super B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
'97 c36
Hey aus what springs are you running? did you bottom out real hard at the track? camber bar looks good? Like you had said.. Short of an accident/impact what a crazy thing to have happen.
Old 05-22-2015, 02:33 AM
  #6  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
I've got a new set of arms in now and I'll see how it goes.
I certainly hasn't been towed, had rear end accident damage and hasn't had any particularly hard bumps since the arms were last replaced (due to a single damaged bush but I replaced the pair of arms)

The springs that were in it were the H&R sports but I've now changed back to OEM with size 3 spacers.

All W201, W202, W203, W209, W124, W210, W170 use the identical arm with the exception of some W210 wagons (aluminium arms) and the CLK63 (I think only due to a track width change).

Some arms in the rear suspension were upgraded for the armoured version of the W210 but not the thrust arm so MB obviously didn't think it was a weak spot.

My best guess is that although there is nothing advising they need to be installed in a particular direction that they may indeed have different load capacities depending on the direction they are installed. Whilst this wouldn't be an issue on most models (good luck breaking anything in the drivetrain of my 190D due to excessive torque!!!) it may be an issue on the higher torque models. I made sure they are mounted the in the same direction as originally fitted.

Whilst I don't believe this will make a significant difference, I don't have any other ideas at this stage.
Old 05-22-2015, 07:18 AM
  #7  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Sulaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: America
Posts: 2,367
Received 180 Likes on 147 Posts
1999 C43 AMG, 2005 E55 Wagon
Originally Posted by Ausmbtech
I've got a new set of arms in now and I'll see how it goes.
I certainly hasn't been towed, had rear end accident damage and hasn't had any particularly hard bumps since the arms were last replaced (due to a single damaged bush but I replaced the pair of arms)

The springs that were in it were the H&R sports but I've now changed back to OEM with size 3 spacers.

All W201, W202, W203, W209, W124, W210, W170 use the identical arm with the exception of some W210 wagons (aluminium arms) and the CLK63 (I think only due to a track width change).

Some arms in the rear suspension were upgraded for the armoured version of the W210 but not the thrust arm so MB obviously didn't think it was a weak spot.

My best guess is that although there is nothing advising they need to be installed in a particular direction that they may indeed have different load capacities depending on the direction they are installed. Whilst this wouldn't be an issue on most models (good luck breaking anything in the drivetrain of my 190D due to excessive torque!!!) it may be an issue on the higher torque models. I made sure they are mounted the in the same direction as originally fitted.

Whilst I don't believe this will make a significant difference, I don't have any other ideas at this stage.
You have an awesome collection of baby MB's. I had to fight tooth and nail to keep both my C43's when we got the wife a new Jeep Compass. I doubt she'd ever let me get a nice 190d or 240d as a third car, let alone a freakin' E55.
Old 05-22-2015, 11:46 AM
  #8  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sick430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
CLK Cabrio
Hey Aus, I am having the same issue. When letting off after hard acceleration it feels like the back end (at least body wise) is stepping out to the right.
Was this the feeling you had? Will put the car up in the air this weekend. I have upgraded camber arms.
Old 05-25-2015, 08:54 PM
  #9  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
Most of the time if the back end moves around under acceleration and deceleration it usually the inner bush on the thrust arm. It's not worth replacing the bush alone, just replace the arm and I suggest doing both sides at the same time.
Old 05-26-2015, 01:43 AM
  #10  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sick430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
CLK Cabrio
Thanks!!!!! I'll look onto that!
Old 06-11-2015, 10:40 PM
  #11  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
So I did a little digging through the MB "part bin" (EPC) and took a gamble on ordering a set of arms from a CLK63 as the 209 chassis had the same arms for all variants except the 63. They were about $60ea.

Looks like AMG knew they were too weak for track work too. I'm starting to think it's not the engine power that caused the damage but the cornering with a set of wide semi slicks because many people have done the same engine conversion without having an issue.

Here are some pics of the AMG thrust arms. (A209 350 0006)
They also use the harder bushings from the W210 wagons, there is more rubber in the bush compared to the stock bush as pictured.
Attached Thumbnails Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3416.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3417.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3418.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3419.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3420.jpg  

Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3422.jpg  
Old 06-12-2015, 01:24 AM
  #12  
Banned
 
KJI3jflarryfe93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Ausmbtech
So I did a little digging through the MB "part bin" (EPC) and took a gamble on ordering a set of arms from a CLK63 as the 209 chassis had the same arms for all variants except the 63. They were about $60ea.

Looks like AMG knew they were too weak for track work too. I'm starting to think it's not the engine power that caused the damage but the cornering with a set of wide semi slicks because many people have done the same engine conversion without having an issue.

Here are some pics of the AMG thrust arms. (A209 350 0006)
They also use the harder bushings from the W210 wagons, there is more rubber in the bush compared to the stock bush as pictured.
did you test fit these thrust arms on your c43 yet?
let us know the outcome.
Old 06-12-2015, 02:14 AM
  #13  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
There are identical length as the factory arms, they should be a direct fit......I'll let you know when I fit them next week.
Old 06-12-2015, 02:53 AM
  #14  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
DRBC43AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Land of mountains, cheese, chocolate and watches
Posts: 5,692
Received 262 Likes on 222 Posts
12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Just picked up this thread. Wow Aus looked like some serious problem and I immediately thought that knowing you tracked your beast, the use of slicks or semi-slicks could be the root of the problem. This was confirmed in one of your later posts.
Nice to know that an upgraded reinforced AMG part exists. I'll be thinking of this should I need to change mine one day.
Old 06-12-2015, 03:33 AM
  #15  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
cm60k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A.D., U.A.E
Posts: 7,034
Likes: 0
Received 384 Likes on 349 Posts
00 C200 & 00 C55 & 06 SLK55
Great find Aus., this definitely will help widen curving wheels/tires as well..-

ZAYED,,
Old 06-12-2015, 08:33 AM
  #16  
Banned
 
KJI3jflarryfe93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 0
Received 36 Likes on 35 Posts
these thrust arms will they improve handling on public road?
Old 06-12-2015, 10:00 AM
  #17  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
DRBC43AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Land of mountains, cheese, chocolate and watches
Posts: 5,692
Received 262 Likes on 222 Posts
12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Seeing that the end bushes are beefier, I imagine that it should firm things up nicely. Now, I wonder if a normal butt dyno would feel a difference on normal roads. I doubt it very much.
Old 06-12-2015, 09:07 PM
  #18  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
Originally Posted by kowalski
these thrust arms will they improve handling on public road?
I'm doubtful you'd feel any difference, it's just purely a reinforced control arm. If you changed the bushes in all the control arms to nolathane you'd notice though.
Old 06-14-2015, 04:04 PM
  #19  
Super Member
 
Pagz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 672
Received 15 Likes on 11 Posts
C43 w/clk55 Organs
Awsome find on the arms, look forward to knowing if they fit well Id definitly run these when mine are due!

Do you think you could weigh one before install?

Cheers,

Last edited by Pagz; 06-14-2015 at 04:10 PM.
Old 06-15-2015, 08:42 PM
  #20  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sick430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
CLK Cabrio
Ok, I need these. will be ordering them shortly. Please let us know how they fit once they are installed.
Old 07-09-2015, 09:34 PM
  #21  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sick430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
CLK Cabrio
any update? how do you like them?
Old 07-09-2015, 11:31 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
Tony_AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Culver City, California
Posts: 446
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
1999 C43 AMG
Going to be very honest cause it happened to me on my c230 kompressor exactly. that only happened to me when i make a sharp turn and end up hitting the curb. you can be parking and can do the same thing. These arms are meant to bend easier than the rest but save the knuckle and other components as well. I have both in my kompressor that are bent exactly like that but are able to adjust the other arms to pass alignment too. also can be due to running potholes allegedly, but IMO experience is because of the curb bumps we do alot. have you had any wheel damage before on the rear wheels?
Old 07-12-2015, 10:35 PM
  #23  
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
 
Ausmbtech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes on 23 Posts
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
I've fitted the arms and done another track day. As I thought, you don't feel any difference in the car. They are a perfect fit though. I tried to confirm which way they should be installed (they are curved) but I couldn't find any pics of them fitted and no CLK63's are around when you want to stick you're head under one when you need one. I went with what I thought was right but will advise if I find they need to be mounted in reverse.

I don't believe the old arms bent from any kerb damage either on or off track. I've done at least 15 track days prior to the engine swap with no issues other than the rear sway bar mounting points breaking with is inevitable especially with a 4mm larger rear bar. If anything I use the kerbs a lot less on the track now with the engine upgrade as I don't feel like the need to "wring it's neck" as much in the corners to get some speed out of it. I've seen enough accident damaged arms to know it's rarely just one arm that bends and certainly not identical on both sides.

I have read that the CLK Black Series guys are having issues with the rear end feeling vague and loose under full power or on the track with slicks and their solution is to fit nolathane bushes to all the arms (Weistec do a kit). I don't like using nolathane unless absolutely necessary as it's still a road car so I'm going to hold out until I try using the "square" tyre setup (running 8.5x17" rims with 245/40/17 front and rear rather than a staggered setup) and then decide if I need to do this too.
Attached Thumbnails Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3438.jpg   Rear Thrust/Torque Arms-img_3439.jpg  

Last edited by Ausmbtech; 07-12-2015 at 10:44 PM.
Old 07-13-2015, 12:37 PM
  #24  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
DRBC43AMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Land of mountains, cheese, chocolate and watches
Posts: 5,692
Received 262 Likes on 222 Posts
12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Thanks for the update Ausmbtech
Interesting you idea of going "square" with 17" Should improve understeer and braking with the larger front foot print.
Old 07-13-2015, 04:34 PM
  #25  
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sick430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,946
Received 20 Likes on 19 Posts
CLK Cabrio
i have gone 245/255 in order to curb understeer and braking and made a huge difference.

thanks for the info.


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Rear Thrust/Torque Arms



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:03 AM.