c63buckeye

Does anyone know if a 2013 or 2014 P31 and/or a 507 will have the dreaded limp mode above the 290 degree oil temp?

Thanks.

c63buckeye

Anyone?

jrcart

Yes, it will begin to pull timing before it reaches 290 then it will go into limp mode for self preservation.

jordanaf

I've always been curious. What set's off limp mode?

Is it temperature? Functionality? Brake issue? Engine communication? Anyone have a brief but concise explanation? Or is it just an overall ECU communication that tells the driver enough is enough?

Thanks!

c63buckeye

Ok, but has this been verified on a 2013 or 2014 P31 or a 2014 507?

There was talk about a software update and that the internals being different as having an impact.

Thoughts?

jrcart

My 2012 C BS is identical in every way to a 2013 C BS. It is a safety and preservation thing that is set, they would not take that out of the tune. If it gets hot its gonna pull timing if it getshotter it will go into limp mode. If the trans gets too hot it will do the same thing.

Ezec63

What temp does the ecu start to pull timing? I had alot of issues with my 12 coupe overheating while i abused it but now i retrofitted the black series coolers the temps float around in the 230's but no matter how hard i beat on the car and try to get temps up i cant get it to go over 240 so its def doing its job. Hope 230's isnt in the range where timing is being pulled. Also the 12 coupe doesnt show trans temps like the BS does i wonder what my temps are there now with the BS trans cooler

rage2

From what I've been able to gather, the limp mode at the track affects all facelifted C63's with the exception of the BS. The updated software raises the limits slightly, but it just allows the MCT gearbox temps to run a little higher. You can't see the gearbox temps in the C63's (again minus the BS with Perf Media), so you never know when it happens. It's independant to engine oil temps that you see, that's why the engine oil temp numbers for when it triggers is all over the place, just higher than usual.

There's been a few threads of folks retrofitting the BS gearbox oil cooler, that's the only way to solve the issue. The 507's vented hood won't solve the issue. So far, I've heard of 1 instance where the 507 kicked in limp mode at the track.

ucla95

Is this also happening with E63's?

149max

I have a 507 w/ Performance Media so I will update you guys if I run into any problems at the track.

UMP

Was just at Putnam Park this weekend in 507. Ambient temp was about 90 degrees F. With track tires I would go into limp in about 3 hot laps. Oil temp was around 290. The first day when I was using street tires, I did not go into limp mode but did not do more than 3 or 4 hot laps at a time. I destroyed the 2000 mile street tires in about 9 total hot laps divided up into only 3 sessions. I had Tire Rack drop ship new R comp wheels\tires to the track, next morning. The track wheels\tires held up well (no TPMS) but set off the limp in 3 laps. I was really flogging the beast. I raced an E36M3 competitively years ago and used to hold the BMW Club racing B mod lap record at Mid-Ohio for several years so I'm a bit hard on cars, but this was very disappointing. I originally thought it was because Tire Rack did not put in the TPMS sensors, but now I realize it was probably the tranny heat because of the extra stick.


BTW: the car is really fun for a 4000 pound freight train.

ParkerK

Good to know - wonder if that new cooling package would have let you last longer or eliminate limp mode altogether - at 5k is better in my mind.


My guess is with Ho-Ho's or R1's...likely not if the tranny is what gets hot.

UMP

I really don't know what it was, I do know something got too hot.
For 5K, I can get a cheap race car.(kinda, but you get the point) I think this car is a better short burst fun street car. It would be very cost prohibitive to be a GOOD track car.
Or, you can always go to Road America in December.

whoover

The cooling package has a larger tranny cooler and a larger engine cooler.

UMP

Are they BS parts or an upgrade for our "normal" cars?


What are the part numbers?


Is that 5K for just the parts or also install?

whoover

Part numbers are here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...7.04.14eng.pdf

Tranny cooler is from BS:
http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/__/OIL...305001200.html

Engine cooler is from SLS:
http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/__/OIL...975001600.html

But it's just mounting hardware different from one in BS:
http://www.mbpartsworld.com/p/Merced...975001200.html

roadtalontsi

that's not a transmission cooler, that is an oil cooler. There is no transmission cooler in the upgrade.

UMP

Hey,
THANKS!

whoover

The front cooler is the transmission oil cooler. It is replaced with a much larger unit. Look at the pdf. Page 9, for instance.

The "wheel arch cooler" is the engine oil cooler.

unagi1

Wouldn't be a bad idea to add the transmission temp to the "AMG" section of the display in conjunction with this add-on...

whoover

I could easily be wrong but my hunch is that the tranny temp sensor talks directly to the TCU/ECU and doesn't publish on a channel, like CAN-C, that the cluster can access. If this is the case, it would take a wiring change to allow this. Since many limp-mode conditions are due to transmission overtemping (and the MCT versions even have an increased tolerance programming update because the torque convertor was the most easily affected component of the old transmission), it's odd that the AMG display doesn't display transmission oil temp. That's why I think it's a hardware limitation.

In any case, the massive coolers of this update, for both engine and tranny, and deletion of the annoying fan, make this upgrade very tempting.

unagi1

Interestingly enough, AMG Performance Media has trans temps in addition to standard oil/water. It's a different head unit, so either tapping in directly to the TCU/ECU as you mentioned through the harness or picking it up on a channel.

Ideally, some company might want to think about picking up these signals and having something along the lines of AEM's serial gauge that you can set threshold values for alerting, peak / hold values, etc...

whoover

And it could be another wiring difference, of the sort that has AMG telling us you can't retrofit APM.

roadtalontsi

the transmission control module, which is part of the valve body. The control module has the temp sensor built into it, so yes it directly talks to the sensor.

507 man

New to the site and my 507

took it to VIR in Danville Saturday and kept getting the Limp mode. Thought at first is was a traction mode but shut everything off. Now realize it is definitely a temp thing. Very disappointing.