ab0bab0i

It's pretty funny reading the responses you and others have for AMG CE & Information on PL.

zibby43

BMW has been cleaning up for years with its "M Sport" models. Audi has done the same with its "S" models.

Some people want more performance but do not want a full-blown performance sedan/coupe.

The C450 is actually called the "C450 AMG Sport." It does not wear any genuine AMG badging, aside from two tiny "AMG Sport" badges on the front fenders.

I'm shocked it took Mercedes this long to introduce a competitor to the M Sport 335i and Audi S4.

It doesn't bother me in the least that the C450 AMG Sport exists. It's not pretending to be anything other than what it is - an "AMG Sport" model.

What it is funny to me is when people buy these "in between" cars and try to pass them off as genuine RS/Quattro, M, or AMG models. Just be proud of whatever it is you own and call a spade a spade.

All that said . . .

Discussion of the C450 AMG Sport does not belong in this forum. This forum is for the W204 C63 - a true AMG performance sedan/coupe.

trueblue_ips

To be fair, the c450 is a bit more than a c400 with an AMG badge! From what I can gather it borrows tech from the c63 transmission to speed it up (slow transmission was a criticism of the c400). It also borrows bits of the suspension and has the AMG bodykit and styling. The engine has also been tuned by AMG. It's a an AMG lite or junior AMG.
To be honest you could argue has better credentials to being an AMG than the CLA45 which is a 2 litre 4cylinder!
There's plenty of room between a c300 and the mighty c63 for a compromise car which is what it is.

zibby43

The C450 does not have the same styling as the W205 C63.

It's not even close. They share the same doors and a few body panels. That's about it.

The C450 is a trumped up version of the C400, not a trumped down version of the W205 C63. All of this info. I'm sharing re: the cars' specs is straight from the AMG Private Lounge.

The C450's suspension is loosely based on the W205 C63's suspension. They're nowhere close to identical. The C450's suspension is a tweaked version of the C400's suspension.

The W205 C63 has a completely unique/bespoke suspension.

The only thing the C450 does borrow from the C63 AMG is the ability to change suspension stiffness/dampening; there are 3 modes. The hardware, however, is completely different. Remember that the C450 has C400 specs (re: track width, etc.).

The W205 C63 has its own unique dimensions.

A few more distinctions between the C450 and the W205 C63:

C63 also has a LSD (standard car has a mechanical differential standard whereas the S model has the e-differential from the new AMG GT).

C63 has a bespoke exterior (A-wing front splitter, true quad exhaust with 4 separate tailpipes, AMG single-blade grille, twin power domes on hood, etc.).

C63 has bespoke wheel choices.

C63 has a bespoke motor (obviously) and exhaust system.

C63 has the dynamic engine mounts from the AMG GT.

C63 has the carbon fiber driveshaft from the AMG GT.

C63 has a completely different braking system (6-piston fixed front Brembos as standard with optional carbon ceramic rotors).

C63 has a completely bespoke interior (different seats, different steering wheel, different trim options, different gauges, AMG menu(s), different car setting buttons, etc.).

C63 has hydraulic steering.

Furthermore, the W205 C63 has an updated/upgraded version of the MCT, whereas the C450 has the same automatic transmission as the C400.

And on and on.

C63 (Notice the massive 6-piston fixed front calipers; bespoke wheels, etc.):



C450 (Same Mercedes-Benz branded 4-piston calipers utilized by the C400; smaller rotors; AMG "Sport" rims, etc.):



C63 (A-wing front splitter; carbon fiber trim; AMG single-blade grille; twin power domes on hood, etc.):



C450 (Same as the C400 Sport front bumper with the CLA250 Sport Grille):



C63 (Notice the true AMG exhaust and carbon fiber diffuser; AMG badging; AMG carbon fiber spoiler, etc.):



C450 (Notice how it is badged C450 4MATIC):

trueblue_ips

Jrcart, calm down!!! I would love a "proper" AMG but can never hope to afford one, let alone the insane fuel bills living in the UK. Do you know how much fuel costs here? The c450 is a great idea by Mercedes from a marketing POV for the reasons I've explained and I'm sure will be a very popular car for the masses who like me couldn't afford to run an AMG.

That said, I can see why see AMG owners are annoyed but it's the same with all ca manufacturers. Jaguar is now producing a "dumbed down" car to enter the 335i/c450/s4 segment.

jrcart

I need the name and number of your drug dealer becuase he evidentally has some really good $#!+

I would take a CLA45 over a C450 "AMG Sport" any day

zibby43

+1

Once you go full AMG, it's tough to go back. At least for those of us with petrol running through our veins.

jrcart

So now your're blaming fuel costs??? I bet fuel costs in the UK cost less than the race fuel I run in all my cars. If we are even having a discussion on fuel costs you shouldnt even be on a MB forum....don't they sell the B class on thst sife of the pond? Treat yourself to one of those, maybe they make a B 25 AMG or something for the petrol expense challenged.

izzy63

Libby always has good information listen to this guy

trueblue_ips

Zibby, at the risk of upsetting jacart more, then I am living proof that Mercedes strategy works. I'm happy to admit I know absolutely nothing about cars so most of what you've just said went straight over my head. I'm not technical with cars but I like good looking cars and follow Motorsport so know about branding.
I was also set on a bmw 335i and then saw the c450 which I thought looked stunning compared to the bmw. The fact that it was a baby AMG made it a no brainer. There are plenty of people like me who'll go for the great looks and AMG name without understanding what it really is their buying.

izzy63

Zibby always has good information listen to this guy

kuba.95

Surprisingly the C63's fuel consumption isn't bad.

6.7-6.9 L/100km Highway.
10.8-11L/100km City.
based off https://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63s.php?lang=eng

The C400 has (based of MB Canadas website)
8.4 highway
11.1 City

zibby43

At the end of the day, all that matters is that you enjoy the car you're after.

Most of what I set out above is pretty basic stuff for us car nuts (no offense intended here) so a true AMG probably would not be a good fit for you at this point.

Most of us on here have turned wrenches on our own cars at some point. We like to know everything about our cars and what makes them tick. We like to modify them. We like to run them on road courses and at the drag strip.

My advice to you is pretty simple: Go enjoy whatever car you ultimately choose but don't try to make it out to be something that it isn't.

Also, you admitted that your intention here was to stir up the hornet's nest a little bit. I would advise to keep all C450 discussion in the standard W205 C-Class forum. On the BMW forums, the M Sport cars do not have their own separate forums; these cars are discussed alongside the cars they were based on - the standard models.

Good luck!

Thank you sir! Appreciate the kind words. I tend to read more than I post but when I do post, I try to make it count.

Djmouz63

:popc orn:

trueblue_ips

I don't know what a diffuser is but the c450 has the quad exhaust. I've seen it. It also has the rear spoiler. Admittedly, it doesn't have everything it's big brother has. That's why it's cheaper and a compromise car.

trueblue_ips

Thank you zibby and duely noted. I should learn more about cars as I have to taken mine to a mechanic for an oil change.

trueblue_ips

Jrcart, but you don't go racing every day. Everyday fuel is much cheaper in the US. Plus you probably don't realise that we have to pay an annual tax based on emissions, which again is expensive as the c63 is relatively un-environmentally-friendly. The UK government fleeces car owners to pay for our world leading welfare and health care systems.

CarHopper

We don't have a gas guzzler tax on the w205 C63, the new 4.0TT is more "eco-friendly" so I bet you would also see some small break there.

You should give the cla45 a shot. You mention the c450 is more AMG than that cla45.. Go drive one, you'll probably come out surprised.

zibby43

Look at the exhausts more closely. The C450 has a dual exhaust and each tip has a partition in the middle (sort of a "faux" quad exhaust).

The C63 has a true quad exhaust - each tip is a separate entity. It is also an entirely different exhaust system. If you're unfamiliar with cars or a particular brand of cars, differences might appear subtle but as you learn more, the large discrepancies between standard vehicles and AMG vehicles will become more readily apparent.

Also, the spoiler each car has is different. AMG vehicles are bespoke. All of the parts on an AMG car are designed to work in harmony. They're not parts bin specials. That is why we enthusiasts buy them. Every AMG engine is hand-built by a single technician. The turbocharged V6 in the C450 is a tuned version of the mass-produced motor in the C400.

You need to start thinking of the C450 as a tuned-up version of the C400, not a tuned-down version of the C63. The C450 has a bunch of subtle improvements over the C400.

The C63 is a markedly different car - different track width/dimensions, different motor, different suspension, different brakes, different wheel/tire choices, different steering wheel, different seats, different transmission, and so on and so forth.

There is a lot to learn. For example, with respect to brakes alone, in comparison to the C450, the C63 has much larger front and rear calipers. The C63 also has bigger and better rotors (carbon ceramic rotors are an option on the C63).

The C63, as a RWD car, has a mechanical limited-slip differential as standard. The S model has the e-differential from the new AMG GT S.

These components I'm mentioning are tremendously important when it comes to performance cars.

trueblue_ips

Thanks Purple Heart and zibby. I wasn't being entirely serious in my comparison to the cla45 AMG. I know the c450 is a tuned up c400, not an AMG.
It's styling is nice though in its on right.

I've been put off the cla45 as it only has a 2 litre engine with 4 cylinders but a massive turbo. I've spent some time on the bmw forums as I was looking to buy a 328i originally. That car is really not liked as its described as a 4 banger tuned to hell with a turbo that's too large that'll blow up due to the "hysterical" engine. That versus the silky smooth 6 cylinder 335i. Everyone says 6 cylinders is miles better than 4 and worth the extra money.
I'll have a look at the cla though as shouldn't dismiss it.

trueblue_ips

PS, yes I can see the differences in the exhaust. You get what you pay for like anything in life.

edwardsflight33

I wouldn't take too much advice on the CLA 45 from the BMW forums. Most of them are rationalizing their decision for the 235 or 335 over the CLA. MB and especially AMG take great care in designing and building their engines, because that has been their key to success. Sure I could've bought an M3 and been faster around the Nuerburgring, BUT I realized the C63 was more enjoyable as a DD due to the growl of the 6.2 NA engine.

As far as MB calling it an AMG Sport, they're behind the game on this one. Cadillac has the V-Sport, Lexus has F-Sport, BMW has M-Sport, Audi has S-Line. All tweaked models of the base car. Knowing what I know about fuel prices and taxes in Europe, I think you'll love the C 450 AMG Sport. No, it isn't a detuned C63, but it will still be a very comfortable car, with 4-Matic, and an amazingly quick car on the streets. 4.9 seconds (yes, probably quicker) will hang with stock Corvettes from less than 10 years ago. It won't take long for tuning companies to improve on that either.

jrcart

...I pay $8.50-$9.50 per gallon for the fuel I run in my SLS BS and C BS that are both tracked AND driven on the street.

jrcart

Do you even realize the AMG 2.0L that you are dismissing as "only a 2.0L" was devoloped and built along side and in conjuction with the new 4.0L bi-turbo motor that is going in the AMG GT-S and new C63 S? AMG came right out and said that the new 4.0L is essentially two 2.0L powerplants fused together....that was the exact wording they(AMG Engineers and Representatives) used, so are you still sticking to your words that the 2.0L is realy not a "true" AMG motor?

masterianvii

Trollololololo...