kgoff6

I will give that a try! Im headed to the track right now but I've got the tool box.
Don't have a multi meter with me.
Can you point me towards the relay and maybe even soecufically the bridged posts #s?
I know it would help me keep that cold water flowing tonight I'll be apt to get my iats down even further!

This is current info as im driving the car now in the picture i attached.
Coolant is a little warm but temp on the dash says it's 92f outside and ive got the ac blastin.
Ill add ice at the gas station in a minute and post a comparison.
Thanks
Kenny

ZephTheChef

Yeah, no problem. Now this is on an 04 S600 so I have no idea if your relay is in the same place or has the same pinout. On mine, the computer evidently grounds the trigger pin (86) to activate the pump. Or at least that's what I've done that seems to work. Pump now runs when ignition is hot (which now also continues to run for a short time after the car is shut off in my case...should help keep the intercoolers from heatsoaking on shutdown).

Like I said, it's a temporary/quick solution so not real classy looking, but it has been working fine on my car for several months.

ZephTheChef

There's not really any current running through it so you could use a really tiny wire if you have one. I just used what I had laying around at the time...I would much prefer a smaller black one or a more inconspicuous location

ZephTheChef

Got my ice tank set up fitting-wise (until I get time/money/motivation to build one that fits in the spare tire, then I get to re-do all of this). I ordered the valves from frozen boost that thread right into the tank, but they are 1/2" NPT ball valves, I have decided not to use them except for the drain line. The actual ID of the valve is like .475" or something. I didn't want my system to have to suck and return through that, so I got the right adapters to run 3/4" valves with garden hose connections. The inside diameter of these at the smallest point is .625". Much better. This will also allow me to run short lengths of 3/4" flexogen garden hose from this tank to the pump, and to a return line. If I put a female/female adapter on one of the valves, I can run male/female ends on the feed/return hoses and end up with a direct bypass connection right there should I need to remove the tank for some reason. The drain hose is going to be 3/8". I did this in part because it's going to be at the same level as the pump feed. The 3/8 line will drain slower and be more controllable, also it is centered on the original fitting so it will be exposed to air sooner when draining. I didn't want to be able to drain too much out and get air into the system. I plan on mounting the tank at a very slight angle so that the water can only drain to the very top of the pump feed fitting. I would like to figure out some sort of screen or baffle I can put in the tank to protect the pump feed fitting from getting clogged with ice as well. Pretty sure I can't get the welder in there, so I will probably have to epoxy something in place.





From the pump to up front and back will be 3/4" 2-wire hydraulic hose. Yeah, it's heavy and a bit of pain to work with but it's a small amount of weight overall (like 1/2lb per foot or so...maybe 20-25lbs total). And it'll last forever, should be fairly well insulated (may add pipe insulation if sweating is a problem...they won't like it at the track if it drips), and absolutely won't kink and cause a flow problem.

Dr Matt

My experience with an ice tank was you don't need a screen. Remember, ice floats so if the line out is at the bottom of the tank you are not going to get any ice in the line going out. I was worried about that with my first ice tank too but it was never an issue.

ZephTheChef

That's kind of what I was thinking, especially on accel. If I have the feed to the pump at the very rear of the car, that's going to make the ice float to essentially exactly opposite where the pump pickup is. I was just somewhat concerned if I had the max amount of ice and minimum amount of water necessary, but I don't foresee going to that extreme. This tank holds 20 lbs of ice, and I should only need half that per run max so it should always be floating floating completely above the fitting.

I think I've got room when I do the spare tire tank for almost 5 gallons plus insulation. So then it definitely won't be an issue then, that's twice the size of this frozenboost tank so the same amount of ice won't take up nearly as much of the container. I will probably install some kind of baffle in that tank anyway though since it will be scratch-built.

Edit:

Was the ice tank in the lightning or other previous car, or have you tried ice on your 65?

Dr Matt

Ice tank was in my lightning. I started out running ice from bags, but got tired if hauling a few coolers full of ice to get through a weekend. Besides, if there were any delays when I was already in the staging lanes, like a rain shower or oil down, all the ice would melt before my pass. In the end I was freezing a case of bottled water. I'd throw some ice cubes in the tank, and one or two frozen bottles of water / ice chunks. I'd just freeze the bottles of water, and then between passes cut the plastic bottle off the ice. Worked great. I'd still have a little ice when I got to my pit after most passes and IAT's were more consistent, kind of important for bracket racing as you never know how long you may be in the staging lanes. There were even times I'd fill the tank with ice, and take two "ice blocks" (frozen water bottles) to the staging lanes in a little bucket I kept on the passenger floor. I'd throw them in the tank when I got close to the front of the staging lane line as my class was running, lol. The things we do to try and run consistent ET's.

With the killer chiller, I should be able to have ice in the freezer for my Old Fashioned at the end of the race day, rather than just a buch of frozen plastic bottles forcing me to drink warm bourbon.

ZephTheChef

I hear ya. I could see it being a huge pain in the butt depending on circumstances. I will probably eventually still add a killer chiller type setup. I mean I already have the cores laying around for it, it's just a matter of plumbing them. It would provide me some active cooling for daily driving, as well as keep the ice from melting while waiting around in the lanes (assuming the car was running).

kgoff6

The washer fluid resevoir has been working great for that last month or so but here in New Mexico it's really starting to get hot, 103f this week during the day.
I drive the car about an hour on the highway cruising around 70 mph.
I was watching the torque app the whole time. Temp on the dash showed 104 and coolant temp got up to 213f at a couple time, but was staying pretty steady between 200f and 208f.
Anyway, i got to where i was going and saw something leaking. Check coolamt light cane on.
I opened the hood and used my stack of rags (because this is the second time this has happened) to open the coolant resevior and it was damn near empty.
All my engine coolant had drained into my washer fluid resevior ( ic res) and this is what was leaking, my intercooler resevoir from the top..
I am wondering if i need to disconnect the air purge line coming from supercharger line going to coolant res and hook it up on the intercooler resevior..
Also wondering if i need to fit an airtight lid on the ic res..
Any help is much appreciated,
Kenny

ZephTheChef

I am confused, I thought you had split systems? Are you saying your purge line off the IC circuit still dumps to the pressurized engine coolant reservoir? Yes, this would be a problem as your coolant system needs to be pressurized to avoid boiling/evaporating coolant. So if there is a path for it to get into the intercooler system, it will definitely expand into your reservoir, and overflow. I wouldn't try to put a pressure cap on your intercooler reservoir, it is too thin/weak to hold much pressure and either wouldn't seal, or would break. Just get the systems properly/completely split.

kgoff6

Very reassuring! Yessir that is what im saying and after hearing you explain it it makes compete sense.
Thank you, ive got an extra nipple ill put it on there right now and see how it does.
Just to make sure, i want it towards the top of the ic res, correct?
Thanks,
Kenny

ZephTheChef

Yes, you want it to the top of the intercooler reservoir. Make sure the old nipple on the coolant bottle is capped properly...standard vacuum caps will NOT hold up to coolant heat/pressures for very long.

kgoff6

Good to know as i wouldve used a standard one.
I will be sure to find something more suited for high heat/pressure.
Kenny

ZephTheChef

Yeah, I've used them before as a temporary measure. They are just too thin...once everything heats up and softens the rubber the pressure will blow them right out. They WILL leave you stranded on the side of the road, lol. Smaller diameter ones last longer but eventually it will go...and not like long-term eventually...probably within a few months. I would say use a good heater hose or fuel injection hose (both are reinforced to hold pressure), with a bolt silicone'd, shoved into the hose, and clamped in place. It looks kinda dumb but works great. I really haven't found a better solution that holds up as well unless you want to permanently close it up by welding or epoxy.

kgoff6

Added the new purge line and capped the old one with a bolt and hoseclamp lol
Screenshots of torque and pics of temps on dash are from yesterday, ill post pics of what difference the air ourge line makes later with the system FULLY seperated. We live and we learn right.
Kenny

ZephTheChef

It will probably be a small change. I don't think you were getting a whole lot of fluid exchanged, it was mostly that your system was no longer sealed so the coolant expansion was able to get pushed out onto the ground. It might make a bigger difference than I would think though, depending on how much was actually circulating around between the two systems.

kgoff6

Thank you for helping me get that taken care of! Huge difference. I drove the car around and it was just as hot as yesterday..before i left i put ice in the ic res just because. (Did this yesterday too, it got hot quick)
When i got home i put my fingers in the ic res and it was ice cold.
Temps stayed down and i didn't lose any fluid.. shouldve been this way the whole time!
Kenny

ZephTheChef

That's good news! Glad to hear it. Now get it back to the track with a working ice tank!

GatorMB

One thing I do not see with all this engineering is insulation.

A coolant reservoir would be real easy to apply some Header Wrap or fiber wrap for commercial refrigeration systems. The ambient temps encountered under the hood in New Mexico, Florida (me) and other south east/west states will saturate the benefit quickly.

I would like to see a good photo of the windshield washer reservoir idea, It sounds like a real space saver. Only issue is the thin material. Hmmm

Think,Think,Think "Whinnie the Poo"

Best, Gator

I get the picture post 40, Thanks

GatorMB

A 0.5" or 0.75" coil of copper tubing in the reservoir will go further.
Pipe it into the into the main Intercooler/heat exchanger lines.

Cheers

kgoff6

I have thought about getting it coated! There is a place in towm that does alot of containment tank liners, bed liners, soray foam insulation all those types of things.
I gave them a call the other day, in going to pull the coolant res out in the next day or so and go have them spray it. That will also give me peace of mind that all my connectors will be securely sealed to the resevoir, and will definately cut back on heat absorbtion.


Dont know if i mentioned before, to get rid of the washer fluid message on the dash i just connected the float back to its electical connector and taped it straight to trip the sensor.
Probably couldve just looped the two wires but whatever!
Kenny

kgoff6

I am actually planning on adding a loop for my AC Refrigerant to run through the washer fluid warmer lines (down the road)
I figure this will help, even if its just a little.
Or it could make my ac work less efficiently, i guess it could go both ways.. who knows lol
Kenny

ZephTheChef

It depends how you do it. It won't affect AC operation much if you just put a loop in the suction line right before the refrigerant gets back to the compressor. But it also won't cool your IC system that much. Adding an extra evaporator KC style will cool a lot more, but may diminish the performance of your cabin air. That method also requires Ts and an expansion valve, whereas a small passive chilling loop in the existing suction line would not need to be valved or T'd...just some re-routing of one line/adding some length plus your chilling coil.

GatorMB

To better cool things off with the suction line. The Mercedes 380, 450 SL series M119 also Jaguar used fuel line inter-cooler.

The fuel was plumbed into a fitting built into the suction line. Cool fuel lowers combustion temps better than meth I believe with less super tuning.

It would be rather difficult to plumb tubing for SC into the tank but really easy to build a short coil of pipe for the suction line in the tank.
The variable rate compressor will never reach freezing temps because it is internally pilot driven. Introducing the extra heat load might trick it into wide open valving.
The killer chiller seems best for all street applications but the cost and complex plumbing are what I am considering.

I like what I am seeing and reading in this thread. The WW reservoir hold quite a bit of coolant. I will likely approach this theory when it is time for plumbing the IC/HE.
I would wrap the tank though.

All the Best, Gator

Remember that the suction line must remain gas, Over cooling this pipe will cause the the refrigerant to condensate into liquid. Testing with AC gages is the best way to go.

ZephTheChef

Not even remotely close. That's not to say it doesn't help and is not a good idea, but to compare it to meth is just so far out of the ballpark I don't even have the words. I don't have the exact figures for gasoline off the top of my head, but it will follow a similar relationship as water does, so I'll illustrate with those numbers. The cooling potential for evaporating water is 970x that of just changing the temperature of water while it remains in liquid form. In other words, even if you chilled your fuel to freezing and normal rail temps were 100 degrees over that, the cooling from the fuel being physically cold is probably going to be 1/10th, maybe at best 1/8th or so of the cooling from the evaporation of said fuel. So you might gain 12.5% total cooling BTUs that way.

For comparison, methanol has 7.16x the evaporative cooling capacity of gasoline at the same AFRs. So to put that into better perspective, methanol offers 50x the cooling improvement compared to chilling the fuel. If you meant water/methanol injection, then we're only talking about 15x. In any case, chilling the fluid that you're injecting has an extremely insignificant effect as compared to the phase change cooling. It's precisely the same reason ice is so much more powerful than more water volume in terms of heat storage capacity.

I think the evaporator chilling loop for the IC reservoir is a great idea, but I also think it will be a relatively small impact on overall temps. I mean it's essentially using waste/leftover energy from the main evaporator. There just isn't much surface area in the coil as compared to the evaporator, coupled with the fact you're a LONG way from the expansion valve already. Most of the refrigerant will have already boiled. Do suction lines usually get cool/cold all the way to the compressor? Absolutely, but that's when they have maybe a 1/2lb of aluminum to chill, not 10 lbs of water. It would be better in an orifice tube car where there was a fixed amount of freon being delivered, but it will be a much smaller amount of waste to take advantage of in an expansion valve system. The slight pressure changes in the low side from further heating that refrigerant in the additional chilling coil may well shift the compressor displacement up slightly, but that won't matter if the expansion valve is still controlling the amount of superheat at the primary evaporator.