lovestarbucks

Hi
I have a 2002 CLk 430 Conv

My top isn't working, its sounds similar to the other issues people are having with there tops not working. The Conv Top button flashes after nothing happens, and after i start the vehicle the headrest button flashes then stops shortly. when i release the latch, all windows go down together. I took it to a local Mercedes Benz Mechanic, who only work on Mercedes. he looked at it, and he says it needs a passenger Window motor and regulator and then recheck the system. It sounds a little fishy, only because all the windows are operational. Its not that i don't trust him, its just i've already spent 580, and i don't have definite answer. if someone could please help me i would be so thankful.

Thanks Johnny H

rickdear

I have the same care and had the same problem a few years ago. I was quoted almost $7000.00 to fix by my Mercedes service department. They said that my hydraulic pump had failed. I found that hard to believe. So I worked the top manually for the rest of the summer. I found out through this site that it could possibly be simple as a fuse for the rear headrest. I did the work myself took about 45-60 minutes removing all parts, and less time putting back together. The fuse cost was only $10.00. I still was prepared to sent the pump out to be rebuilt for about $400.00-$500.00 just in case the fuse did not work. either way the money saved would've been with it.

Not sure if this is something you would want to tackle yourself but I'm no mechanic either and got it done. I will try and find the link with the step by step instructions and send to you.

GatorMB

The Headrest circuit goes through a check-sum at start up this is normal.

Opening latch all windows down, (normal)

Pump should engage while lifting the top button. Bow opens, Hatch opens, bow retracts roof into compartment, hatch closes. (party time)!!!

If all the windows retract suspect a limit switch interlock to be the problem. Check Fluid level in pump reservoir and all fuses.

Gator

Serndipity

lovestarbucks

The W208 power roof operation is a very complex system; that involves a controller, 7 hydraulic cylinders, a dozen or more limit/position switches, a pair of tension cables, hydraulic pump/motor/relay, value body, interlocks with other vehicle systems via communication with the CAN-Bus, associated connectors, wiring harness etc.

While the windows lower after opening the roof latch is a good sign, the power roof controller does monitor other subsystems (e.g. A37, N70, N72, N73) for proper conditions. For example, within N72, the power window and truck release conditions are checked.

Did your mechanic use the MB Star Diagnostic System (SDS) in coming up with his diagnosis?

The key to repair is understanding how the power top works at each stage of operation and checking for the correct controller input/output conditions.

Good place to begin is by reviewing the power roof operation in your owners manual, which includes information pertaining to the main switch blinking light error conditions. For example, if the luggage cover is not in the proper position, the power roof will not work. You not only need to see it in the proper position, but that the roller wheels in the rails are properly aligned and actuating the position switches.

In searching the forum, you will find a treasure chest of existing threads that covers the diagnosis, common problems and DIY repair of the power roof. Another great resource is the W208 section on the TopHydraulics web site http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/c...y-instructions

For example, there is an inspection port inside the truck, whereby you can easily check for leaking hydraulic cylinders by observing the level of fluid in the system. If OK, common problems could be a faulty motor relay or any one of the numerous switches.

If all fails, the MB SDS diagnostic should be able to isolate the fault, particularly if it's a rare, but possible, CAN-Bus module related issue. Note: The CAN-Bus operates via voltage encoding, which is beyond DIY trouble shooting with a multimeter. The SDS tool is available at MB dealers and many independent mechanics.

Top Hydraulics

rickdear, are you saying that the Mercedes service department diagnosed a faulty pump, and it really was only a fuse in the end? Or was it the relay next to the pump? In either case, congrats on getting it fixed yourself!

If the 40A fuse for the convertible top system is blown, then that normally means the hydraulic pump motor has shorted out. That again is usually the result of a sticking relay p/n A 002 542 13 19, located next to the hydraulic pump motor. This relay is the same part number as the fuel pump relay, so it is easy to check the function of the relay by swapping in the fuel pump relay. In most cases, the relays spot-weld themselves closed and keep the hydraulic pump running until the electric motor overheats and burns out. The 40A fuse could also blow if the pump motor is close to burning out and drawing more current than usual.

The hydraulic pumps in CLKs fail so frequently these days that I am not surprised at the Mercedes service department's hasty diagnosis. The pump you get from Mercedes is actually a rebuilt one, because Mercedes does not sell new ones any more. For a fraction of the Mercedes price, you can have your pump rebuilt at Top Hydraulics. You actually get a better product back. See http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/w...ulic-pump.html.

Pump part numbers are:
2088000030 aka A 208 800 00 30 (model years 1998 - 2000, up to VIN -070017 in model year 2001)
2088001048 aka A 208 800 10 48 (model years 1998 - 2000, up to VIN -070017 in model year 2001)
2088000230 aka A 208 800 02 30 (model years 2002, 2003, and from VIN -070018 in model year 2001)
2088001748 aka A 208 800 17 48 (model years 2002, 2003, and from VIN -070018 in model year 2001)


Just for completeness, hydraulic pump removal is not difficult, and here is how to remove and package the pump if needed:


Access to the pump is covered in these instructions: http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/W208...eplacement.pdf

Once you have access to the pump, do the following:
- unplug electrical connector
- remove black protective plate
- remove socket head bolts on aluminum hydraulic line retaining plate
- pull on each hydraulic line individually (do not worry - the lines will all stay connected to the plate, and they will not get mixed up)
- unbolt the mounting brackets from the car, and take out the pump
- drain the reservoir
- remove one or both mounting brackets if you want to save on shipping cost/weight
- put pump into a sturdy garbage bag
- buffer your parcel well inside, ideally double box, and tape up well
- ship to Top Hydraulics after making payment on the website


Serndipity, that's an excellent answer!

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com



Mercedes W208 CLK-Class Cabriolet Hydraulics

Mikeoxlodge

Hello,
I seem to be having the same issue. Maybe someone can give me some ideas as to my problem.

My top starts to open and then stops and the switch light starts to blink slowly. If I release the switch and engage it again it just continues to blink slowly.

If I shut the car off and restart it I can get the top to go down, although sometimes it takes several restarts to complete. The same when putting it back up.

I removed the panels to look at the pump. My oil level is perfect and there are no signs of leaks.

I switched the relay with the fuel relay and I still get the same result.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to my next step?
Thank you in advance. I have solved MANY problems with this car through this forum.

Mike
2002 CLK430 Cabriolet

Serndipity

Hi Mike.....

As usual, forum members try to help, but the newbies vanish into thin air (e.g. makes one wonder.....why try to help?) .

However, seems like you have already tried (e.g. doing the basics).

Given your description of the your power roof.........

Possibly, stretched or broken tension cables?

Note post #30 in the following thread.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208...fixed-1-a.html

Ed

Mikeoxlodge

Yes, my cables are broken, but I have been pushing the top past the point of resistance until the top starts to go down. When I twist the handle to put the top down I hold the top up with my left hand and hold the switch with my right until the top starts to go back.

This has worked fine for me for the two years I have owned the car. It seems the problem is elsewhere.

Serndipity

I apologize for suggesting a possible solution (e.g. suggesting broken tension cables), but w/o repair, you still expect that your power roof will still operate normally.

Shame on me .......but, hope you can find and resolve your problem.

Best of luck.

Mikeoxlodge

I certainly appreciate your suggestion, but I have seen dozens of posts from people about the cables being stretched or broken and the top operating with a push to get it started,

My top starts to malfunction now right when the rear latch starts to unlock, while I am holding the front of the top open so there is no tension on the assembly, the same as I have done for almost two years. I believe that I am performing the same job the cables would do, since once the top starts to fold back the cables would be slack anyway. Maybe the broken cables have caused the pump to work too hard and now it is worn out.

I was hoping there would be some way to test the pump function or hydraulic pressure in the system so I could actually determine the problem instead of throwing money at parts and hoping to find the solution.

lovestarbucks

Than You All for all the wonderful diagnostic avenues for my convertible Top.

I have noticed that the Rear headrest don't go up or down anymore, and the red light for the Rear headrests flash on the button.

I also don't hear any clicking coming from the rear of the vehicle.

The Top doesn't engage in any way, shape or form. When You try to lower the top, nothing happens, and the convertible button flashes after 10-15 secounds.

Serndipity

lovestarbucks

No guarantees, but........

Based on what you said in both of your descriptions, the hydraulic pump, required to lower/raise both the roll-bar and roof, may not be operational.

A lot of electrical current is needed to operate the hydraulic pump motor. The low current control electronic provide the required current through a relay. When the relay contacts make and break, the resulting arc causes contact pitting and over time, much higher contact resistance, that results in insufficient current flow to operate the motor. It's also possible, but less likely, for the contacts to weld together, causing the motor to runs continuously until it burns out, if the thermal protection circuit doesn't kick in.

Unfortunately, you'll have to remove the access panel to get at the power roof components. The DIY instructions, on how to do this, are in Top Hydraulics above post.

The fuel pump uses the same relay, so you could easily try it in place of the pump relay (e.g. simple plug and play).

If that turns out to be your problem, a replacement relay is a commonly available part and very inexpensive (e.g. less than $10).

GatorMB

It seems both lovestarbucks and mikelodge have pump (hydraulic) issues.

You should hear the pump when activating the top switch, love might have a leak in the headrest system, Mike might have an open manual bleed screw loose if the pump runs. Also report fluid level and condition.

Happy Holiday, Gator

lovestarbucks

Hi Guys, I removed the carpeting in the trunk and fluid level is at the Upper Level line. I'm trying to locate the Relays, to test the Convertible motor. any input on locations?

Thanks You Everyone!

lovestarbucks

Thank You Everyone for all your Help! I Appreciate Everything!

Guess Who Has a Convertible Again!

It ended up being the Hydraulic Pump Relay, good news is Mercedes has it in stock for $17.00, I was so shocked!

Thanks Again Everyone! Best of Luck top you Mike.

Top Hydraulics

Excellent - you're a lucky guy!

Be vigilant for the first few weeks of top operation with the new relay in place, in case the old relay failed on account of the pump drawing more current than it should. Familiarize yourself with the location of the 40A fuse for the pump and be prepared to pull it, in case you hear the top pump running after the opening or closing cycle is finished.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

m2736185

they relay for the pump is located near the hydraulic pump?

Top Hydraulics

Yes, the relay is mounted on the pump's frame. You have to remove a lot of bolts to get to the pump, but it's not difficult. Use part of the following DIY as a guide: http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/W208...eplacement.pdf

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

m2736185

well that's what I am suspecting. My top use to go half way up after all the windows came down. Now I turn the handle and the windows all retract but nothing happens and the button blinks. The seat positions all function, and the fuses are all good.

andymac10

My top did stop working but after a manual open procedure all started working again. The only issue I have now is when the roof closes, it hits the top of the windshield crooked. After the rear window locks down it is lined up correctly to close with the handle. I checked the cables and they both appear to have the same tension. And as I said once the rear window closes all is even.
Any suggestions?

miatawnt2b

Your problem is one of the front cables has stretched. It doesn't take much.

Austinat

I have a 1999 convertible that I bought a year ago and had the same problem about a month after purchase. It would not close - the anti-roll bar light flashed, the windows opened, the pump whined, but nothing happened. Fortunately, it quit operating when I was at home.

I opened the hood using an Allen key to open the hood cover [inside the boot (trunk)] , a screwdriver to release the pump pressure (inside the boot) and a 10 mm spanner to release the hood (behind the rear seats). These items were originally supplied with the tool kit but mine were not in the car so I had to utilise what tools I had. The 10 mm spanner is long and thin so be prepared to add an extension to it. I used a piece of steel tube battered flat to cover the end of the spanner. Your handbook shows where to go to access these items.
After unlocking the hood cover and releasing the pressure, I lifted the cover and the rear of the hood in order to access the boot (trunk).
I then removed the carpets to expose the metal construction.

In the front of the boot (trunk) there is a panel held with about 24 x 10 mm bolts. Removing this panel exposed the hood motor and electrical system.
There are 2 relays, one for the fuel pump, one for the hood operation. As they are identical, I swapped them. Result - the hood operated, but the car would not start. Great! It showed that the hood relay was faulty.

MB wanted about about £20 ($30) for a relay - theirs has a lock to prevent it jumping out of its housing. I went down to my local car parts dealer (Car Spares Monmouth) - [why should they not have a promotion?]. I bought a relay without the locks for £3.99 ($6.00). To ensure it did not jump out of its housing, I wrapped a nylon ratchet tie wrap around it and its housing.
After fitting, the hood worked perfectly.

In all, the job took about 4 hours and a sore back, as it involves bending over the side of the car in order to access the various bits that need removal and re-fitting. However, I found great satisfaction in being able to fix a complicated bit of equipment and save a lot of money.

Good luck with your car!

Austin

nashvlille_bill

I'm helping a friend with the non-functional convertible top on his 2002 CLK320. I've read a lot of treads on this forum, and found them to be very helpful, but I'm still having a problem diagnosing his problem.

This started when he was raising the top, and noticed a fluid leak when the top was slow raising; he did manage to get the top up, but the rear of the top wasn't secured and the trunk won't release from the remote.

I have checked the three fuses and added fluid to the top line in the reservoir.

The rear of the top is now secured to the car.

The rear headrests (roll bar) will raise and lower with the roll bar switch.

The windows lower when the manual top release (top of the windshield) is turned.

I hear something click when I pull up on the top switch, but nothing moves or releases. The top switch is solid red when I first pull up, but starts flashing slowly after a couple of seconds.

I assume that I have a limit switch problem, but I only see the one at the rear of the curtain; where are the other ones? Is there a diagram of the switch locations, like the great diagram of the hydraulic parts?

We thank you, in advance, for any help you can give us.

nashville_bill

Top Hydraulics

nashvlille_bill, welcome to the forum and kudos for helping out a friend!

I will comment below.

Let's double check on a few simple details, before going crazy on micro switches.

1) How far did the pump move the top before you got involved and filled up the hydraulic fluid etc?
2) Did the storage cover get closed manually, or did the pump do it?

The reason I'm asking is, if the storage cover was closed manually but not fully latched, then the computer might find the situation illogical with the rear bow latched but not the storage cover.

Klaus

www.tophydraulicsinc.com

nashvlille_bill

Klaus,

I don't really know the answer to either question, but the top was down when the problem started and up when I received the car; the pressure release was still closed when I got the car, so I assume the pump raised the top most or all of the way.

Thanks for your fast response.

Bill