jigsb

Hello all, thanks to all your members, I did my first Oil and filter change on my W209 2009 Clk350 last year.

This year, I embarked on ATF flush (at 56k miles and no issues) but chickened out in the end and not having all the tools and the many tricky steps involved.

My Q to come to the point - If we drained 8+ qt from Torque converter and transmission and pan combined, but could only fill back 6.75 qt around 98F and oil starts overflowing, what gives !? Car seems to be driving ok and transmission seems to be shifting as before. I drove about 35+ miles after that but I am worried. Should I be !?

Details (get ur popcorn
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Decided to hire help from CL for this project, an ex-Mercedes ASE Master technician Albert Cano (he showed his cert) and that he used to work for a local Mercedes shop (Walters in Riverside, CA). He was willing to do the job for about $215 compared at the Dealership ($350). And seemed knowledgeable so I signed up, figured I will learn along the way which I could not if servicing at the Dealership.

Raised the front of the car and Shift in Park position, he first accessed and flushed the Torque converter. Then drained the PAN through the plug and then removed and drained the PAN. W/o cleaning anything, he tried to put the new filter / seal. On my insisting to use a brake cleaner or equiv, he said he did not have it and cleaned the pan lightly with some lint. With some oil still around the housing and on his hand, he put the seal on and put everything back on. On his way, he broke one of the 6 bolts as he was not using a Torque wrench. He got some Home depot zinc bolt and screwed it back in and promised to come back with a original replacement bolt as AZ did not carry it. I am already panicking but had no choice.

When I asked how much total oil was drained, he said not important and I am worrying too much. With the car in the same raised front position, he starts pushing in ATF 134 (Shell) 1 qt at a time. He was suppose to bring 8-10 qt, but brought only 7. After 6 qts, he starts the engine and plugs in an after market OBD. He left the engine running w/o shifting for the next 20 min (when he went to look for that bolt) and when he came back temp was at 98F and he pumped in another ~ .5 qt from the 7th bottle, very little overflow, he pumped in another ~ .25 qt and this time, there was a bit more overflow and he said it is full. And I questioned him, even shifted the gears a few times to see if that allowed him to add more oil but he said No.

But I finally got stern with him and asked him to measure the oil drained into the collection PAN and to our surprise it measured at 8.25 qts. He said he cannot add more oil as it will simply overflow, neither did he have any more left on him.

He did all this with the car raised a good 26-28" on the front. He puts everything back on (hopefully he did) and asked me to take it out for a drive which seemed normal. I paid him most of the money as I was getting late for work.

Later, I spoke to a few service advisers at the Dealership and they warned me against Driving and towing the car to the Dealership and they would check the oil level for $50 (through their STAR reader) and charge me another $160 for a fill-up and I have to provide my own oil.

Q - What do you folks suggest as my next steps !? Can Autozone read the ATF level through its OBD reader !?

Please do not flame me for hiring a CL mechanic, my wife already has , I know I deserve it. But I want to learn and do such projects on my own so my Kids can see and learn to be more self dependent and learn a thing or two about Cars.

-J

Yidney

Despite your many words, you did not describe what position the car was in. Was just the front raised and not the rear? Are you saying he had the tool to read temps directly? If he truly drained the TC and the pan, then no way it only took 6+ quarts to be full. But if only the front was raised and the pan was not level, then this job was a total screw up.

Yidney

And no, AZ cannot read the level. It is read by the overflow method at a certain temp.

jigsb

Thx Yidney, I thought I mentioned it. It was raised only in the front. All work and fluid level check using overflow method was performed that way.

Yes, he plugged an OBD reader onto the Car's computer and read the temp off that. It was 98F. Yes total drained was around 8.25 qt, and took 6.75 qt before overflow but the car was not leveled and I missed that totally.

From your words, sound very bad and I drove to Work 35 miles and still at work.

Yidney

I'm pretty shocked he thought that was ok. You are measuring the level of fluid in a reservoir at a certain location. If the reservoir is tilted you will not get an accurate measurement. You won't kill it driving low for a few miles. But since your bolts are torqued wrong and he did not do a good job cleaning anything, if it were me I'd just have it done over, but I'm sort of **** which is one reason I do all that stuff myself. I put a level on my pan both directions, and this guy had it tipped 40 degrees. Crazy.

jigsb

Thx, I did not quite get a good look at my Pan when he removed it, but it is 2009 CLK 350 and it seems as per Rudney and other thread I may already have the new Pan design and in that case the temperature reading should have been at 113F as opposed to 98F. Can someone confirm if the 2009 CLK came with the new Pan design ?!

So with almost a qt and half less pumped in, am I causing damage to the AT. I do not see any diag lights in the dashboard yet and luckily no leaks as yet which is weird given the way he went about it.

Yidney

Yes it will have the new pan, and I was going to say that 113 is the right temp, but that hardly matters given the angle it was at. The temp gives an accurate measurement because the fluid changes at different temps.

Quadcammer

total hack job it seems.

Yidney

A couple other things. You mentioned he broke a bolt, but not whether he used all new bolts. Those are single-use bolts that are never to be reused. They stretch when installed which is why your pan does not leak with fairly low torque - they are sort of like rubber bands. But once used they cannot be reused. Second, did he drain your TC directly by removing the tiny drain plug? I assume so. Did he use a new one? I assume not. That little plug has a tiny crush washer on it like when you change oil. It will never crush the same way twice, so you may well have a leak around that too. So, to summarize, if you really have reused pan bolts that are all torqued wrong, one from Home Depot, a reused TC drain plug crush washer, a dirty pan and mating surfaces and the wrong fluid level, it may be time to say "honey, ever heard the phrase 'live and learn'''?.


If you do bite the bullet and get it done right, the dealer price you got may have been for the pan only. They do the half fluid job a lot. But also beware many do not know you have a TC drain plug. You have to be very specific. You have to tell them you want the TC drained, and you want it drained directly from the plug, not flushed. And that you want a new plug and washer. They may actually tell you it has no drain - many don't - so just tell them "oh yes it does."


I hope you have called out your handyman from CL. You should send him this link.

jigsb

Thanks for the added info on the bolts and TC washer. Would never have known. No, he used existing bolts. I guess I will buy new bolts from the Dealership today.

Dealerships doing a half-*** job is something I was worried as well, but the good and bad of it is that you do not see it. You assume they did the right thing and you can go after them if anything went wrong.

This guy wants to come back to finish the job and get his balance or maybe because he has a conscious, he has agreed to set the car level on all 4 jack stands, add 2 more qts and check overflow at 113F. I will have him replace the bolts (hopefully at the right Torque) one at a time. Not sure if we can do the TC washer now.

What is still puzzling to me is there is still no leaks to the naked eye and the car has been driven about 85-90+ miles since the change and the initial test drive I had really pushed the car on all low (1-5) gears in Comfort and Sports mode.

And what is funny is this guy did the lousiest of job with cleaning, got oil and possible dirt all over the new seal, did not torque, did not replace bolts or that TC washer, nothing and yet does not leak. But I have seen threads from some members here that in spite of taking quiet good care with all above and it leaked on them.

So Q: If there was an issue with leaks, should it not be evident by now ? Or could it take longer !? Could it be because there is not enough oil in the Pan to leak and that it may start leaking once he adds another 1-2 Qt.

2. How much ATF oil does the Car (Transmission and TC) actually require and hold during operation and the rest being stored in the holding Pan. That could possibly explain why my Car is behaving thus far. Just that there is less oil for the Car to recycle with.

3. One MB service adviser who I had spoken with yesterday had said to bring my car in and he can read the ATF level through the STAR reader for a $48 fee. Possible !? I know you said No to after market OBD readers at AZ.

Thanks again for your help.

Yidney

I hope you appreciate irony of having a certified MB master tech work on your car, but asking me, a lawyer, how much fluid your tranny holds. Please do let us know what this guy said about doing this with just the front jacked up - or reusing the old bolts for that matter.

It holds roughly 9 quarts, but it holds whatever it holds when the level is checked correctly.


I am not shocked it does not leak. It's a pretty soft rubber gasket. And oil on a gasket will not necessarily cause a leak.


If the level can be measured with MB's diagnostic system I am unaware of that, but perhaps Rodney will chime in if he is reading this. But AZ will not have that system - it is not a standard OBD issue.


The hole in the TC is pretty tiny, so it drains slowly, so he could probably swap the plug before losing half a quart, but he'll be covered in fluid, which he deserves.


As for the bolts being "hopefully at the right torque" this time, if he shows up without a torque wrench that measures in inch pounds as opposed to foot pounds, and you let him touch your car, I have no sympathy for you anymore.

Rudeney

I am not aware that the transmission fluid level can be read via SDS. The temperature can be read - maybe the service advisor is confused.

jigsb

Thanks guys, the ahole did not show up, had me wait 2 hrs in the morning and I had thought he developed a conscious to make things right otherwise why take trouble for $50 and bring oil as well. Sends me a text to not call him for future work . If any one want to hire Albert Cano ASE master technician in OC / Riverside, let me know, I will be glad to forward his contact info.

Anyway, I am going to fix it myself this weekend. Since it is not leaking, I am just going to add the remaining qts. Here is my plan, please correct me if I am wrong anywhere:

I already have 6 new PAN Bolts - $20 (damn dealership). Got 3qt of the same Shell ATF 134 oil ($36). Bluetooth OBD2 ($8 Amazon and $5 Torque Pro App works beautifully). Have arranged a floor jack and 4 jack stands from a friend. Planning to get the $10 transfer pump and Torque ratchet (3/8) from Harbor Freight tomorrow.

1. Raise front (first), put wheel chock on back tires and set jack stands
2. Raise back (next) and set on jack stands.
3. Make sure Car is leveled on both x and y axis. Remove protective under cover.
4. Replace one transmission bolt at a time, torque new bolt to 4nM + 180degree.
5. Remove the drain screw mount the pump adapter quickly. Most likely there will be no overflow.
6. Pump in ~2 qt and start the Engine
7. Connect OBD2 and start shifting through the gears with brakes applied.
8. At or Around 113F, stop the engine.
9. Remove the pump adapter and check for overflow. If none, add more oil till decent overflow.
10. Screw the drain screw (to 22 nM) after the overflow down to a trickle.
11. Clean area, restart Engine, shift thru the gears (with brakes applied) and pray for no leaks.
12. Turn off engine, check for leaks, put back under cover, lower car.
13. Lift off !
14. Come back and let you all know how it went. Hopefully

Yidney

You got the adapter that threads into the tranny pan to allow you to pump in fluid at Harbor Freight? Can you send a link to that? Never heard of that before, most people order a very special adapter from a place online or drill a hole through a bolt and make their own.


Ditto for the OBDII thing and the app. You got something for a total of $13 that will read MB tranny fluid temps directly? Please post those links as well as others will be interested.

Yidney

Oh, and it's the pan you want level, not the car. That will usually require that the rear jack stands be one notch higher. Side to side depends on how level your surface is. I put a straight board about the width of the car there first and put a level on it then measured the space under one end of the board when held level. I ended up putting the jack stands on the driver's side on 1/2" plywood so I knew it would be level side to side. You will probably need to do the jacking in two phases. If you raise the front all the way in one shot you may not be able to get the jack under the differential housing in the rear. The jack stands go under the four jacking points for the jack that comes with the car.

jigsb

Oh, good to know. This would be my first lift apart from 1-2 spare tire change. Oil changes I have done twice using the vacuum/suction method.

jigsb

No, getting the Pump today, will check with them for such a adapter. I thought I would be able to jerry-rig something at home which I referred to as Adapter. Hopefully that will not be a show stopper. I guess I have more to read about.

Here is the to the ELM OBD2 bluetooth I got for $7. My friend let me borrow his and it worked so beautifully (had to download a paid app $5 Torque Pro) that I ordered mine right away. Reviews are not so good but there are others from $10-$20 as well. This one does take a while to get the bluetooth pairing (pairing code is 1234) done, but once done, displays a wealth of information. Unfortunately, am at work and driving my wife's car, but attaching 1-2 screenshots from the phone App. I opted to display the Trans oil temp in a dial (analog along with digital output). And worked just fine.


1st pic:
Main Dashboard and you can add multiple displays/screens with info you are interested in which you can scroll from left to right.

2nd pic:
Trans oil temp dial, displays Digital read out in the center.

jigsb

Yidney, quick 2 questions:

1. If I remove the drain screw, what do I do to make sure I do not mess-up or drop the overflow / standoff pipe in the pan. I think it requires a special drift tool so I do not have to worry about it, correct.

2. The mechanic did not use a threaded adapter, it looked like a simple PVC like pipe which snugly fitted in the drain hole if I am not mistaken. Does it really have to be threaded / screwed in !?

Thx.

Rudeney

I'm a bit confused here. If the transmission pan gasket is not leaking, and you believe the problem is that the fluid level is not correct, then why are you dropping the pan and replacing bolts again unless you are also replacing the filter? I know the bolts are listed as "one time use", but honestly, if they go in place and the gasket doesn't leak, then they are doing their job, so "let sleeping dogs lie" as they say.

I would just correct and check the fluid level. To do this, you only need to remove the drain plug. The overflow tube will not "fall out". In fact, it can only be removed with the pan removed. The only reason you insert a drift to pop it out of place is when draining the pan through the plug.

In this case, if all you need to do is check and set the fluid level, then just remove the drain plug and check the overflow rate. The reason you want a threaded tube is to you can leave it in place while checking the drip rate and have it accept the pressure of the fluid when refilling via the pump. I highly recommend the Assenmacher pump and its threaded nipple - it works perfectly.

Yidney

He's not dropping the pan. He's just replacing the bolts one at a time. One being some Home Depot bolt. Dropping the drain plug won't do anything to the stand pipe. Since all you are doing is topping it up, I thought maybe you could get a rubber cork at the hardware store ands drill a hole in it. No need for a perfect fit.

jigsb

Thanks Rudeney, Thanks Yidney for clarifying. Changing one bolt at a time as I was worried that the one time use bolts may not hold for the next 40k miles.

So have most of my stuff in hand. Could not wait for the Assenmacher pump or adapter to be delivered as I need to finish the job this weekend. Have been driving my wife's car to work last few days

Btw, the torque wrench I got, 1/4" socket reads in in-lb and the range is 20-200, so I guess for 4nM, I set it on 35.4 in-lb, correct !?

Yidney

Don't know w/o looking at my wrench, but I'm sure there are NM in/lb converters online if you want to double check. There are converters for everything else.

Yidney

So just to be clear, you posted pictures of the tranny tremp screen, but it said it had no data. You have confirmed it does communicate with your trans?

jigsb

Yes, I just happened to be at work at that time w/o the car and took pictures from the phone App. When I was at home, I had verified it connected and working very nicely. Where it says No data, it displayed the ATF Temp.

I am all set to do the job tomorrow. I will take screenshot of the App when doing the actual temp read out and post it. Wish me luck, I am going to need it, mostly for raising the car on all 4.

Btw I am curious about raising the Rear as I do not see any jack points like in the front. One WIS manual pic in other threads is not very clear to me.

Coincidentally, I came across a thread from few years back where you were doing ur first ATF change job and you asked a Q on raising the car on all 4 and Rudeney had given you a few pointers.

Read more: https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...#ixzz3gKE7GpnL

There he had mentioned "On the rear axle, you lift from under the differential". I looked quite a bit for a good picture on this site, google, youtube, etc. and could not find one.

And one other thread or post some where mentioned to remove some plastic casing on the axle arm / differential before jacking. So I am a bit confused where exactly I would be jacking and how to remove the plastic casing if any. I plan to use some padding between the jack and the differential or wherever it needs to go.

But would be nice if you or anyone reading this can share a pic or two on where exactly I should place the jack on the rear differential !?

A response before 10:00am PST tomorrow (a friend coming to help) would be very much appreciated.

Yidney

I don't have pics but none are really needed. Let's just be sure you understand.


There are four jacking points on the car for if you have a flat tire. They are near the ends of the rocker panel on each side of the car - little brackets where your jack from the trunk fits. One behind each front wheel and in front of each rear wheel. You do not use those for jacking in this process, but those are where you put the jack stands. Put the jack stand in such a way that you get the best resting of the jacking point on the jack stand. Their shapes are not exactly designed for each other.


When you jack the front of the car to put it on the jack stands, you put the floor jack under that black plastic block under the center of your engine that sticks through the plastic engine splash shield. That's what it's for. That plastic block is about 2x2 inches maybe. The floor jack slides under the center of the car beneath your license plate.


In the rear, it's not clear from your question if you know what a differential is. There is no specific jacking point back there like the plastic block in the front. So you just use the differential housing because it's meaty. Should be no need to remove any plastic. Again, go in from the center under the license plate. The differential is that blocky thing about the size of a football where your drive shaft and both rear axles come together in the center the car. Put the jack close to the front edge of it where it is meatiest. Once you get the front up, your rear bumper nearly kisses the ground and not much room for the jack so probably need to raise front part way, then go back and do the rest. Hopefully you have a low profile floor jack.