Richard / E320

In the past, I have used Mobil 1 5w-40 and 0w-40 in my W210. The last time I changed the oil and filter, my dealer told me to use 0w-40, so I did. Poking around some old oil threads here, I come up with many people saying Mobil 1 0w-40 is the only oil to use, and you can now buy it at Costco. Just as many people say 'no way' and that you should only use 5w-40.

I called my local California bay-area Mercedes dealer to see what they would say: 5w-40.

So what's the real deal here. Why one recommendation from the dealer a year ago, and a different one now and two years ago? I'd like to make sure that I have the most current and correct information for this page: http://www.geocities.ws/mymercedesbe...extractor.html

Huachipato

Manual says 0W-40, so that is what I have always been using. I can't imagine there would be much damage or difference between the two though.

RichardM98

There are endless debates on this and other MB sites about oil. The factory recommends the following:

1997 and earlier - MB Spec. 229.3 or 229.5 All Engines

1998 to 2004 - MB Spec. 229.3 or 229.5 Gasoline Engines - MB Spec. 229.51 Diesel Engines

2005 to Present - MB Spec. 229.5 Gasoline Engines - MB Spec. 229.51 Diesel Engines

Individual dealers are franchises and some recommend other oils. Plus the dealer must handle a wide variety of model years from one or two bulk storage tanks.

The most easily available (hence most competitively priced) Spec 229.5 oil in the US is Mobil 1 Synthetic 0W-40 European Car Formula. But there are other Spec 229.3/5 oils available. Will your car explode if you use something else? Of course not. Any difference might be noticeable as a tiny reduction in gas mileage or wear at the end of life of the engine. But probably not noticeable to the average driver.

FYI, if you are using the FSS built into your car, you should use the MB Spec oil and a fleece media filter to prevent all sludge build up.

Richard / E320

So, looks like my 2001 E320 is MB spec 229.5, and doing a Google of that, I come up with 5w-40, which is consistent with what the dealer told me today. Another Google leads me to Mobil 1 ESP, Formula M 5W-40, Emission System Protection.

If anyone disagrees, please post your thoughts.

Side note: I can't find anything that actually states the required viscosity in my owner's manual, only notations such as to use the recommenced oils.

Thank you, Richard

EDIT: Just did a search at the Mobil oil website, inputing my vehicle information and it comes up as Mobil 1 0W-40! This is getting just a little ridiculous.

ohlord

is 229.51 for diesels low ash.
229.5 is 0w40 is 229.5 it is what you want to use.
Bearings and wear surfaces in the m112 and m113 need a bit of ash.
The diesels need less to maintain their pollution controls.
Get some sleep

RichardM98

Thanks, Ohlord ...

I guess I should have added to look on the back of the container to see what MB Spec the oil meets.

ohlord

I only wish that Mercedes knew what you know

edwinwalke

Take a look at this: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevoli...ets-sort1.html

scroll down to the number you want like 229.5 or 229.51 and click on the number and then take a look at all the oils brands and viscosity you can use.

Keep it simple. If you have a diesel that was made before 2007 use MB spec 229.5 and if you have a diesel made in 2007 and after use 229.51. Gasoline models use 229.5

ejsheltra

I would imagine 5w-40 is fine if you are in a warm climate and 0w-40 if in a cooler climate as well. I have heard both being used from our local dealer in Pittsburgh and here in Ontario in the M112 motor.

Richard / E320

Thanks all for the replies. I'll be switching back to the 5w-40, which the dealer had sold me a couple of years ago. Not sure why the dealer then switched to 0w-40, but they are back to 5w-40 again.

Just wanted to know what others here were thinking on the subject, so 5w-40 it is.

ohlord

it is.
I explained it already. Are you still confused?
5w40 is for diesels do you own a diesel

Richard / E320

Yes, I guess I am still confused. No, I don't have a diesel but thought that was the answer after reading here and elsewhere that 5w-40 was the correct oil. Based on your last post, I did even more searches and came up with this:

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/o...stedDocId=9511

It specifiaclly states that the 229.5 Mobil i 5w-40 id for diesels only; so why the hell is my dealer only selling this, telling me that it the approved oil for my vehicle?

Maybe because of this info from the Mobil 1 website: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...a_M_5W-40.aspx stating 'Helps to reduce poisoning of Gasoline Catalytic Converters' but goes on to state that it's for 229.51.

Is it possible that the dealer could be using the wrong oil? Seems not likely, so I don't know what to think here. What kind of damage, if any, could happen using 5w-40 instead of 0w-40?

As an aside, for the last year or so, my vehicle has driven me crazy, with a warning that the oil level needs to be reduced, then warning me it's low, sometimes multiple times in one day, going a few days with no warnings at all. The oil level, when checked, is always at the top mark of full on the dipstick. A independent shop has told me that a sensor may need to be replaced inside the oil pan. Told me that it was a common problem in 1998 and 1999 models, but was no longer an issue by the 2001 model year vehicle W210's. Could the 5w-40 oil do this? Seems like the viscosity is so close that this wouldn't be the cause.

http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/....aspx?option=2

edwinwalke

What you need to look at is the MB approved oils that are listed in my previous post. If you have a gas engine 229.5 is correct in either 0W40 or 5W40 or 5w30 or 0W30

If you have a diesel and is a 06 or earlier model 229.5 is ok or you can use 229.51. If your diesel is 2007 and later 229.51 is what you need to use in any of the viscosity ranges in the para above.

You can also take a look at the attachment and see the viscosity ranges that are approved. This information is provided by MBUSA and not some dealer that may or may not know what they are talking about or some other person that has an opinion but may not have a clue what they are talking about.

You need to look and decide. After all it is you car and investment.

Richard / E320

Okay, so that's the same information that I was using as a reference. When I look at 1998-2004 vehicle oils for Mobil 1, it states two labels for 0w-40 (Formula and SuperSyn European Formula) and one 5w-40 (ESP Formula M) but the 5w-40 is listed for diesels only, or at least it states spec 229.51, which I thought means diesel only.

So my question comes down to this: is spec 229.50 ONLY gas engines, or does spec 229.5 AND 229.51 apply to gas engines? If it's 229.50 only, then using Mobil 1 would only get me 0w-40, not 5w-40 listed as 229.51.

Am I reading the listed information correctly? And if I am, then what ohlord is saying is correct, and I'm back to the original question of why is the delaer only selling Mobil 1 5w-40 ESP?

grane

0-40 is better oil but the conventional customer freaks over the idea of zero viscosity. The average dealer states that 0-40 is just for AMGs and they up the charge. Rule of retail is to sell what you stock. Some dealers stock both and offer both at the same price.

edwinwalke

Richard, read the attachment to my last post. Page 3 clearly indicates that 229.51 is for diesel only. 229.5 can be used in any gas or diesels made before model year 2007 -- 2007 is the year that they added emissions equipment that required the ESP (emissions system protection) oils. You are making this too hard.

As to why the dealer is selling only a 229.51 oil -- you need to ask the dealer that question. I think it is a matter of convenience and cost for the dealer to only have one grade of oil.

Richard / E320

Thanks for the reply. I'm not trying too make this too hard, just trying to better understand why the dealer is selling oil that is NOT approved for my gas W210. Doesn't seem right to sell one grade of oil for 'cost and convience' if it isn't approved, by spec, for my vehicle.

Guess I'll be using 0w-40, but will have to buy it somewhere other than the dealer, since they don't carry it. In another thread, someone posted that Mobil 1 0w-40 is now at Costco.

I will call the dealer on Tueday and ask them to provide Mercedes documentation that what they are selling me is approved because based on information in this thread, it is not approved.

edwinwalke

The best price on Mobil 1 0W40 is at Walmart for about $6.50 a quart. NAPA had it on sale last month for $4.99 but its now over.

Brau0318

I called my dealership when I first got my w210 and got the front desk, I asked to speak with a tech and she asked me what I wanted to know, I asked what oil was recommended for a w210. She said without asking 5w-30. I said, lady I know for a fact thats not right. She said yeah sir thats what we use in all our cars. I asked if I could please talk to a tech and she said hold on I will go ask. Came back and told me the samething. Made a trip in person to ask and the tech said 5w-40. I made a point to go tell her who I was and nicely corrected her. Looked it up on here and ohlord and Richard say use 0w-40, I switched and never looked back. Sleep like a baby now.

Richard / E320

Incorrect information doesn't just come from someone answering the phone at the front desk; when I called my local M-B dealer, I spoke to the service manager. He's the one who tells me that 5w-40 is the correct oil for my W210. I will be calling or going in after the holiday weekend, as I'd like to see something in writing stating that, from M-B. Based on everything presented in this thread, I don't think he will be able to provide it.

Brau0318

Please post back with what you find. I would love to know what happens

Richard / E320

The saga continues... while I understand the correct oil is 0w-40, my local dealer has been selling me 5w-40 ESP Formula M for the last couple of years, which is inconsistent with the information that has been posted in this thread and documentation on Google and Mobil 1.

So... I called the dealer again today, and spoke to the service department. When they realized it was a 'technical' question (spec 229.5 and 229.51, gas vs. diesel engine oils, etc.), they referred me to the parts department, saying they had the last word on these types of questions, placing their knowledge above even the service manager. Parts states the the current recommended oil for my 2001 E320 / gasoline engine is Mobil 1 5w-40 Formula M (not ESP) and referred to it as the one with the 'black label' and that diesels use the ESP Formula M with the 'green label'. Taking a quick look at the Mobil 1 website, I don't even find a 5w-40 non-ESP version of Formula M.

The dealer agreed that they had been selling the ESP Formula M version, per Mercedes recommendation, but now that oil is no longer approved, though he insists that the oil works just fine with catalytic converters and no harm would come to my vehicle if I continued to use it.

The end result of all this is I guess I should switch back to Mobil 1 0w-40, buying it somewhere other than the Mercedes dealer. And my dealer is selling an oil product that I don't even find on the Mobil 1 website, for $7.50 a quart. At some point, I'm going to stop in just so I can see what the label looks like.

Last question, in technical terms, what is the viscosity difference between 0w-40 and 5w-40, and if both were available and Mercedes spec 229.5 approved, why would I pick one over the other? I'm guessing the 0w-40 would be better for colder climate start-ups, but does that mean much for a California vehicle?

Thanks to anyone who wants to post a reply...

ohlord

the viscosity or the cats that are the issue.
The 0w40 mobil syn contains different additives and more ash. Easier on the engines bearings and also better mpg overall.
Napa has 0w40,had it on sale last month for 4.99
Oreilys had it on sale recently for 4.99.
My 2 cents would be to stop buying anything from the dealer unless you need a part that nobody usually carries locally like an H6W bulb and you really need one and can't wait for www.autohausaz.com to ship you a bulb.

Richard / E320

Okay, I contacted ExxonMobil 1 and got an actual answer to just what is going on: while there is a Mobil 1 5w-40 Formula M specifically for gas engines, it is NOT available in retail form, other than Mercedes-Benz dealers. That makes sense since I have not been able to find anything on Google, the Mobil 1 website, nor have I seen it in stores.

From ExxonMobil:

"The Mobil1 Formula M 5W40 is a product Mobil makes for MB to meet 229.5
and only available from the dealer. Mobil1 0W40 is the retail product
that meets MB 229.5, either product can be used."

Note that ExxonMobil does not say that Mobil 1 5w-40 ESP Formula M (spec 229.51 / for diesel engines) is approved or can be used as spec 229.5, even though my dealer has stated otherwise.

Brau0318

Wow, this thread turned into a manditory read. Great information. Thanks for all your work on this Richard, great stuff! You would think that the stealerships would know this small bit of info and relay it to folks like us.