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E-Class (W212) 2010-present: E 350, E 550

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Old 06-15-2011, 07:13 PM   #26
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Great look forward to your reviews. It appears MB/AMG just outright copied the old M5 rim for the new 63...wtf? I'm also done with the flat paneled brushed aluminum soda can trim on so many of these upper end sports models, just doesn't look that great IMO. In the XKR they at least offer a very nice woven type aluminum trim mixed in with piano wood but I went for all piano wood. I like a real carbon fiber trim for the M/AMG models and not the carbon look leather trim either ala M3.
I agree, that cold (cheap even) flat panel aluminum trim isn't for me either. I like my interiors classic though, so I'm always a sucker for nice wood (unless on a total Sports Car, and considering these are Luxury/Sports hybrids I guess it can go either way, hehe).

I would love it if AMG gave the new 63 its appropriate name: E55!! IMO that name has more cache amongst enthusiasts anyway!
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I agree, that cold (cheap even) flat panel aluminum trim isn't for me either. I like my interiors classic though, so I'm always a sucker for nice wood (unless on a total Sports Car, and considering these are Luxury/Sports hybrids I guess it can go either way, hehe).

I would love it if AMG gave the new 63 its appropriate name: E55!! IMO that name has more cache amongst enthusiasts anyway!
YES!!!! I was thinking the same thing!!!
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:42 PM   #28
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The m5's displacement is quite a bit smaller hence the diff in #'s.
What I meant is how little of a difference this is between the engine used in the X5/X6M.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:19 PM   #29
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What I meant is how little of a difference this is between the engine used in the X5/X6M.
Weren't you comparing to the Caddy CTSV's hp/trq #'s see below

I actually really like this ALOT. It looks alot more serious and sporty than the E60 did. But the performance data is somewhat inferior to the benchmark CTS-V. 552 HP and 501 foot pounds. I expected more torque but I guess the 7 speed DCT will make up for it. Hope it doesn't handle like a barge tho, but then again I'd like to se the w212 keep its place as best handler.
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Last edited by RJC; 06-15-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:23 PM   #30
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Weren't you comparing to the Caddy CTSV's hp/trq #'s see below

I actually really like this ALOT. It looks alot more serious and sporty than the E60 did. But the performance data is somewhat inferior to the benchmark CTS-V. 552 HP and 501 foot pounds. I expected more torque but I guess the 7 speed DCT will make up for it. Hope it doesn't handle like a barge tho, but then again I'd like to se the w212 keep its place as best handler.
Eh, I thought I was talking about comparing it to the X5 M but I guess you're right..
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:23 PM   #31
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No worries, I thought I was losing it lol...
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:30 AM   #32
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I just wanna put this out there. I'm not E60 fan when it comes to exterior styling, but IMO, if you want a race-bred, no nonsense, exotically powered Sedan, the E60 M5 will go down as maybe the best of them. I'll bet those V10's won't be easy on the wallet as the miles/time piles up though.

I wonder how the F10 will handle, compared to the E60, when it comes to M5's. The F10 has been dogged for its handling and/or steering feel by many, since its release.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:16 AM   #33
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Not balanced design

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Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
AMG looks much better
The new M5 looks out of balance with new body style and old E60-style rear bumper and round tail pipes bolted on
Just plain ugly
Just for reference I owned both E39 and E60 M (money)5s
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:24 PM   #34
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I love the M5 look as far as the exterior is concerned and I dont know how many of you have test driven the new F10 5-series but IMHO I think the interior of the F10 takes the W212 hands down and it has a lot to do with that massive screen K-A was talkin about... my only problem is what someone already pointed out, if this is the ultimate driving machine then why does a $40K less CTS-V beat the $100+K M5, belive me I know the limitations of the caddy and how its not really on the same level of lux but what its missing in lux I think it completely makes up in performance, something I think that BMW is definally missing in this iteration of the M5... I'm kinda disappointed in these numbers I was thinkin the M5 was gonna be my next car but I might have to rethink the idea
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:13 PM   #35
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Agreed,the 5'ers interior is nicer the the E's. Remember the engine is the CTS-V is of a fairly larger displacement which explains the power difference
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:42 AM   #36
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I know its lower displacement but the new M5 better come with some serious fuel efficiency improvements to offset the lose in performance.
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:50 AM   #37
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I know its lower displacement but the new M5 better come with some serious fuel efficiency improvements to offset the lose in performance.
Loss in performance from the last M5 or caddy? Has the new M even been thoroughly road tested by the major mags yet?
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:39 AM   #38
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From some angles this car looks SOOOO much like a LCI E90. Some character lines are identical almost.
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #39
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Both the M5 and E63 are great cars, but of the two, I prefer the more understated looks of the E63.
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Old 06-19-2011, 01:20 PM   #40
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I guess lose of performance is not the correct phrase, but what I ment is that the F10 M5 didnt improve its performance past the current gen CTS-V.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:18 PM   #41
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I think that the Mercedes e63 wins in the looks column hands down!! The BMW 5 series keeps doing a variation on the same design over and over again. BMW refuses to take any chances with the golden goose. I think that I actually prefer the model from two series ago as all around cleaner looking. The front of the new m5 looks like Ms. Piggy after she's walked in on Kermit doing it with the Cookie Monster!!! Regards. Ned.
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:36 PM   #42
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face what?? lame ??? gamers get lives what??
lol ned
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Old 06-19-2011, 04:39 PM   #43
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LMAO.
I agree, the E39 is one of the greats.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:09 PM   #44
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I guess lose of performance is not the correct phrase, but what I ment is that the F10 M5 didnt improve its performance past the current gen CTS-V.
I'm confused. How does anyone know the real world performance of the F10 M5? The F10 M5 concept was unveiled in Munich in April. The car will be presented at the Frankfurt Auto Show later this year and go on sale in November. USA sales won't be until after 2012. On June 15, BMW released their press kit with the pics and specs.

Nothing has been tested on the road yet by independent media and certainly not yet against the CTS-V.

But the F10 S63 motor is rated at 560 hp and 680Nm of torque. The CTS-V has 556 hp and 747Nm of torque. The CTS-V is a SC motor and the S63 is a twin scroll turbo. On the other hand, the F10 has a true DCT and the CTS-V has a torque convertor auto tranny (and a manual.) Both cars weigh about the same. It'll be interesting as to what the tuning capabilities of the F10 will be.

But I'm not sure one can speculate the actual performance at this point between the two.
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:27 PM   #45
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That's what Ive been saying; "has the new M5 even been tested by the major mags yet"?
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:24 PM   #46
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I think that the Mercedes e63 wins in the looks column hands down!! The BMW 5 series keeps doing a variation on the same design over and over again. BMW refuses to take any chances with the golden goose. I think that I actually prefer the model from two series ago as all around cleaner looking. The front of the new m5 looks like Ms. Piggy after she's walked in on Kermit doing it with the Cookie Monster!!! Regards. Ned.
LOL. "Ms. Piggy"

I've been trying to find the proper term to describe the F10's front ("bland", "flat", "EU Regulated to the point where BMW couldn't actually design a front end", "bloated"), but Ms. Piggy is the one.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:26 PM   #47
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I'm confused. How does anyone know the real world performance of the F10 M5?

Nothing has been tested on the road yet by independent media and certainly not yet against the CTS-V.

But the F10 S63 motor is rated at 560 hp and 680Nm of torque. The CTS-V has 556 hp and 747Nm of torque. The CTS-V is a SC motor and the S63 is a twin scroll turbo. On the other hand, the F10 has a true DCT and the CTS-V has a torque convertor auto tranny (and a manual.) Both cars weigh about the same. It'll be interesting as to what the tuning capabilities of the F10 will be.
Your both right, the F10 M5 has'nt been tested by anyone, but to be down 67Nm right off the bat wont help the M5 in a 0-60 because as you said they both weight the same and it doesnt matter what tranny they have, either one will make it to that speed in first gear. Now the DCT may give it an advantage later on down the line but really... at a 12 sec 1/4 mi do you really think the tranny will be able to make up for the drop in torque. Now I'm not sure why you were referring to it as a F10 S63 but what I do know is I was expecting the M5 to come out and dominate the sector since it will be the newest, but to come out and have to win on brand, lux or something else other performance would be a complete disappointment, like I said I want an M5 next but they're gonna have to do some miracles with those numbers in order to get the performance I was hoping for out of it. Hell I havent even mentioned the real king of the performance four door ring right now, the Porsche Panamera.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:29 PM   #48
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Oh yea on the tuning note... have you seen tuned CTS-V's these days, the boys at Dinan sure do have their work cut out for them.
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:43 PM   #49
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Your both right, the F10 M5 has'nt been tested by anyone, but to be down 67Nm right off the bat wont help the M5 in a 0-60 because as you said they both weight the same and it doesnt matter what tranny they have, either one will make it to that speed in first gear. Now the DCT may give it an advantage later on down the line but really... at a 12 sec 1/4 mi do you really think the tranny will be able to make up for the drop in torque. Now I'm not sure why you were referring to it as a F10 S63 but what I do know is I was expecting the M5 to come out and dominate the sector since it will be the newest, but to come out and have to win on brand, lux or something else other performance would be a complete disappointment, like I said I want an M5 next but they're gonna have to do some miracles with those numbers in order to get the performance I was hoping for out of it. Hell I havent even mentioned the real king of the performance four door ring right now, the Porsche Panamera.
Um , the S63 is the name of the new motor. The E60 M5 had the S85 motor. Mfgs do number them, you know like M156, M113, etc..

http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/06/16/an...ower-delivery/
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:26 PM   #50
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haha 220S, okay so I did'nt know the name of the F10 M5 engine... mang kinda takes away from my whole arguement when I dont know something as simple of the engine nomenclature oh well. I guess the most important thing, that you even stated, is no one really knows whats gonna happen until they actually get to test the beast
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