BruNo

Looking out for third party opinions: why should i go for an S550 or S63 and not a Maserati Quattroporte GTS?

Im a current BMW 7series owner, my first bimmer, after being a benz person for 14 years straight. Now im looking at going back to benz or trying out maserati

Quadcammer

If you prefer the look and nature of the maser to the MB and are willing to accept slightly less attention to detail and the potential for some annoying reliability issues, get the QP.

my opinion is that the MB is the better car. Same goes Porsche vs Ferrari. Porsche is the better car but lots of people buy ferraris.

absent

Take extended test drive in all three.
You will end up choosing S63 anyway......
GTS is not even on the same planet, nice car on it's own but attraction fades instantly after a drive in the new S.

hyperion667

never owned or even driven a Maserati, but I have heard, and read, about their reliability being awful...
as far as 550 vs AMG goes.......I could imagine the power of the AMG being intoxicating......but the sheer size and weight of the W222 is odd (to me) to cross with an AMG.......

pmrogers

My partner and I recently went through this. I would have gone with the S63; the Quattroporte turned out to be the right fit for him.

The S63 has a nicer interior, much better tech-- especially in the upgraded stereo-- more headroom in the back, and a very smooth ride even on the sport setting. The smoothness of the suspension and transmission hide the capability of the car, which I rather like for a luxury sedan. If you option up the S interior, it has loads more features than any level of the QP.

The Maserati is more extroverted. It performs amazingly for a large sedan, and the Ferrari engine note is better than anything I've heard from Mercedes since the '03 SL55. The steering and throttle response are much more sporty feeling; actually even moreso than the '13 SL65. It definitely feels like a faster car than the S63 even though it is 4 tenths slower to 60 and the absolute handling limits probably are similar. The exterior styling of the Maserati also seems to attract more attention than the W222; the S is handsome and commands respect while the QP inspires lust. Interior wise, the Maserati upgraded leather package uses a slightly softer and more luxurious leather than the W222 exclusive nappa, more like the semi-aniline of the SL65 anniversary edition. The leather quality is the only element of the interior where advantage goes to the Maserati; all other materials, switches, screens, plastics are nicer on the S, fit is tighter, and overall comfort is significantly superior.

Drive all 3. Bottom line, I consider the QP a 'passion' car. If the drive and/or exterior appearance of the Maserati call to you, you will know within minutes. Otherwise, the S wins any logical or practical decision to the extent that those terms apply for this level of car.

-Paul


2013 SL65, 45th Anniversary Edition
2014 Range Rover Sport Autobiography, Fuji White, Ebony/Tan
2014 Maserati Quattroporte GTS, Silver, Marrone/Sabbia

Germancar1

Very astute analysis, that is the classic German vs Italian car decision. Benz is the better car, but the Maser is the more lusty one.

M

AMGAffalterbach

Everyone above makes a really good point including Paul, but let me put my 2 cents in:

The Maserati Cambiocorsa's gear selector fell off when you put it in reverse, that should tell you a lot. That was just a few years ago too, not that Mercedes had excellent reliability and quality in the earlier 2000s, but while Maserati has some engines built by Ferrari, almost everything else around it falls apart. They've made leaps and bounds in quality but I'm not convinced with the Quattroporte that the longevity is there to be honest.

My neighbor has a newer Quattroporte (2011 I think) and he hates it from a reliability perspective, he's always using the backup Range Rover or his son's Mustang because it's in the shop so often. Oh and no surprise here but Maseratis are NOT fast. Hell, my E550 with tune is pretty much on pace with the Maserati GranTurismo 0-60 and quarter mile - pretty lackluster performance for such an expensive car. Maserati does have the sound right though, they sound amazing. Exotic and expensive sounding for sure, but what can you expect from a Ferrari power plant with Ferrari being probably the best car brand in the world IMO. However, on the AMG side of things I've never heard a terrible sounding 63/65 platform either be it the M156 or M157 - it sounds like two angry chainsaws going at it, just so angry and raw and sexy.

Oh and if exclusivity is your thing, all depending on where you live, I'll bet you that the Maserati Ghibli will take away from that soon. It's flooded my area already and I think they look TERRIBLE. Maserati to me has always been the poor man's Ferrari, and while the Quattroporte is a comfortable GT car, I would also say the S63 is the car I would drive coast to coast if I had to choose a car in that segment. Not to mention the community here at MBWorld and across the US that is the Mercedes brand: oldest car company in the world and on every continent and in every country. That should tell you a lot that the Star is one of the most recognized brand symbols in the world, and in many places stands for exclusivity, luxury, and performance.

WEBSRFR

I would pick an S550 any day over a Maserati Quattroporte. You are likely going to have better reliability and more solidly built product to enjoy with fewer things falling apart or off of the car with the S550 or S63. And I think the S63 is in a entirely different league altogether for the performance and luxury it offers.

BruNo

I agree! The Maser's exterior design really spoke to me, however the S' interior also did! LOL.

Ived been driving benzes from 1998 to 2012 so going back might just be the same "experience" as all benzes drive the same, indeed an S would be a more logical decision in terms of resale, that is.....if anyone wants to buy a used gas guzzling S a few years from now. So its a case of choosing the lesser evil, but life is short, my heart says Maser, brain says S class.

superchet

Wat? Not even close to being accurate IMO.

Quadcammer

well gee, I own a porsche, you own a ferrari, pretty clear where we get our opinions.

My argument.

1. Porsche is the most winningest car company in the world. Ferrari competes in F1 which has little in common with street cars, whereas porsche excels in sports car and endurance racing.

2. Reliability/dependability. This isn't even close...sorry.

3. Quality of assembly and parts...sticky parts, peeling dashes, etc. Again, porsche uses higher quality materials, if less exotic.

4. Performance...both excellent

5. Fun to drive. Depends how you like your cars. I prefer the no-nonsense of my porsche turbo. Great handling feel, honest manual gear box, good torque etc. I don't feel like revving to 6k to get above 200lb feet of torque and i don't think the shrill ferrari noise is all that great.

6. Cost of ownership...sure there are some lemon porsches, but on average, porsche parts are cheaper, maintainence is cheaper and easier, and service is easier to find.

There is a reason you see so many porsche 911s with over 100k miles and 20k miles is considered a lot for a ferrari.

Germancar1

Your perceptions of Ferrari are outdated.

1. Ferrari competes at the top of the racing car world, F1 and they take most of what they know from there. The old man (Enzo) only built road cars to finance racing. Ferrari is as legendary on the track as Porsche. Porsche doesn't even compete in F1 anymore, again the worlds top racing venue.

2. True.

3. True again, but Porsche isn't problem free either. Wheels breaking off, the single lug ones, oil leaks (997 9111) and other issues, but yeah more reliable than Ferrari.

4. Yep. Both excellent. Early reports indicate the new LaFerrari will beat the new 918. As will the McLaren P1.

5. Both are fun to drive and I don't know any Ferrari today that is lacking in the torque department. The reference about needing to get 6K RPM to get 200lb-ft of torque is outdated also. Porsche's sound like lawn mowers IMO, especially the naturally aspirated ones. Doesn't even compare to a V12 in a Ferrari or even their V8s.

6. Doesn't matter. You should be a rich man at this level. They're both way to expensive for the rest of us to own.

Yes Ferrari's are more exotic and and are driven less true. Porsche is the better daily driver.

NO way Ferrari vs Porsche is like Mercedes vs Maserati. Porsche and Ferrari are both the pinnacle of their type. Mercedes is the pinnacle of their type i.e. luxury cars. Maserati isn't either on the sport or luxury side, they're tweener brand. More like Aston-Martin. Other than looks and sound, Maser has nothing on Mercedes, Ferrari and Porsche are at each others necks. The LaFerrari is just as advanced if not more so as the 918 and seemingly out performs it.

M

superchet

Please list the Porsches that compete with and are better than

1) 458
2) F12
3) FF
4) La Ferrari*


*Better names don't count.

If you do find any that compete (and there are arguably a couple), ask yourself honestly how many car guys out of 1,000 would choose the Porsche.

Yes, Ferraris are expensive to buy and own but if you're worried about an extra $2-3k/year, then this game isn't for you. As to reliability, newer F-cars are fantastic--I've never owned an older one so I can't comment. The melting plastic
knob issue is gone as far as I know.

It's a different product for a different market. Ferrari makes 7,000 cars/year. No idea about Porsche but I'd guess 100,000+.

AMGAffalterbach

There's a reason Ferrari is held to such high esteem, in addition to outperforming Porsche in several areas as previously mentioned, they compete in a completely different segment - Porsche is a mass-market, performance product and Ferrari is more of a botique, lower volume performance product.

Also, I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but almost every Ferrari (designed by Pininfarina or not) is an absolute work of art, a beautiful hand crafted piece out of Maranello blessed by the Scuderia Gods. Most Porsches around here don't get second looks, mostly because of how common they are, and not to mention they all look the same to most people. A little bit VW beetle-esque in my opinion. Also, Chris Harris put it accurately: the 991 911 isn't at a strong point compared to its predecessors.

Ferrari > Porsche any day in my opinion, granted I've never owned either and they don't compete against each other in the segment.

K-A

The Maserati will be a far more exhilarating, sporty and dynamic drive, it'll have a higher "lust factor" and more curb appeal than the more homogenous S, but overall it's a vastly inferior car to the S Class. Maserati is basically Chrysler with Ferrari derived engines and Maser/Italian lipstick. Take that as you will. I was considering the Ghibli for my next car but after getting up close and personal with one, the Maser's just can't hold a candle to the Germans in quality, detail, reliability and overall features even.

I also think the new QP looks awful, namely at the middle-rear portions (Maserati always brings a nice front), not as good as the previous one, which I wasn't head over heels for, but looked far better to me than the awkwardly proportioned current one. Not to mention, Maserati are really gung-ho about rears that look as bland and generic as any mid-size Economy Sedan.

superchet

I don't get the Ghibli. I guess it gives them the chance to sell a ton of low priced cars but it really erodes the value of the brand at the high end IMO.

K-A

I agree. I was enticed by it, but once you get up close, see all the horrid Dodge interior bits (that are considered even cheap for the $18K economy car class which they derive from) in the interior, the cheap infotainment display, the poor fit/finish all around (panel gaps and misalignments outside, for example), etc., you start to realize that it just might be a "POS". The Ghibli forums, although with lots of owners trying to over-compensate for the amount of backlash the car has gotten, not to mention several negative to lukewarm reviews, have lots of regular, very "beta like" quality issues. Terribly laggy throttle response, loud/non insulate interior, HORRIBLE sound system (the "Base" system is a joke, the "Premium" one still a joke), no HD even offered, cheap feeling and sounding trunk closing and even doors to some (some think the doors feel fine, the trunk, feels and sounds very cheap when closing, doesn't even open with a hydraulic lift like any Luxury Car after the 90's I'd like to think), etc.

What it does have going for it is exhilarating driving dynamics and audible exhaust sounds compared to other cars of its class. However, those have big tradeoffs, such as a harsh and non quiet ride, etc.

It's a great idea: Add some Italian flair to the segment, something brasher, louder, more sporty than the Germans who get more clinical and like each other with every generation, but it's just not there yet, too much Chrysler, not enough "Ferrari". The price will help erode the Maserati exclusivity (its biggest selling point) IF it's even popular enough to get people to buy it at that price! With the premature quality issues already being commonly reported, it seems even with a car that you can get in the $50K's, Maserati might still enjoy its exclusivity, though not in the way they intended.

I'd get a Ghibli 100% for my next car, it's seemed to be designed exactly for me, like what I've been craving. But after checking it out, just not there. BTW, the features list, whether standard of optional is a joke compared to the Germans. I don't get cars for "features" or specs, but some of the most fundamental ones I've gotten used to aren't close to being there.

The QP is apparently almost identical to the Ghibli in most ways, just larger. I personally prefer the Ghibli design much more-so than the QP, but like the QP front better.

AMGAffalterbach

Very good points K-A, maybe you're right from time to time after all hahaha I had the exact same impression with the Ghibli, and frankly, the exterior design just got to me after seeing a lot of them. Almost sucker fish looking. And lackluster performance. If Maserati was truly a cheaper, more accessible Ferrari I would get one in a heart beat. The spirit is there but the quality and performance don't back it up.

K-A

Lol.

You really see a lot of them? I've only seen a few on the roads. I'm curious to see what will win out: Quality or perceived "exclusivity" (while it lasts) i.e will it sell decently or flop. I have a feeling that Ghibli's won't be selling much in a year or two, unless Maser really takes care of some very key and fundamental things. I root for it, I think it's great to have an Italian (if it's actually an "ITALIAN" in this segment. I call it "attainable exotic" or "exotic on a budget"). Unfortunately for me, being such a massive car, the headroom is too lacking for my height, so it's a moot point anyway. The car makes VERY poor use of space, not efficient at all in that regard.

I do admit, the prospect of going to a Ferrari dealership to get your Maserati worked on is pretty damn cool, but I consider that probably a lot of what is baked into the Ghibli price after seeing what the car as a product itself actually offers.

AMGAffalterbach

Not as ubiquitous as a BMW or Mercedes around here, yet, but I've seen 6 Maseratis this last week alone (past 7 days) and 5 of them have been Ghiblis. I agree, the hype will probably be strong for a year or two but I can't see it being a really strong seller in a few years unless they REALLY step up their game. I'm not a Maserati fan, a huge Ferrari fan, but I hope that Maserati evolves into a more attainable Ferrari in several senses. Italian, English, and German cars are undeniably the best in the world. It's funny we argue so much over what is essentially splitting hairs because between the German 3, of course with some exceptions, they are often so close in performance and quality it's a matter of what brand you identify with.

The funny thing about that is that with a Ferrari-built engine, you know it's going to be good, and having the master techs at a Ferrari dealership work on it for you would be incredible. However, that prospect also terrifies me a little after seeing a local guys Ferrari FF loose the front bumper tow-hook cover and come back with a 2k bill for a plastic piece and paint matching.

I guess I need to go drive one!

Quadcammer

1. Yes, ferrari competes in F1, and a small portion of that transfers to the road car. Big difference between how that happened in the 60s and how that happens today. But I'll grant you that ferrari has racing heritage, it just hasn't won as much as porsche does. Porsche hasn't really had any interest in F1 for years, and I see why...they are a sports car racing company.

3. You are absolutely correct. Porsche has had some MAJOR gaffes lately. Centerlocks are a perfect example. This is porsche catering to the poser "looks like a race car" crowd instead of people who actually like to use the cars hard. Not sure what you are referring to with the 997 leaks, unless you mean the RMS. The IMS issue is obviously another major disaster.

4. Beat how? N-ring? With the levels of performance these days, any discussion of these cars beating each other is largely academic.

5. Direct injection in the 458 has been a huge boon for ferrari when it comes to torque. The 430 made 343lbft of tq at 5200. The 458 makes 398 at 6000rpm. For example, the 997 GT2 delivered 500lb feet at 2200rpm. Yes, one has turbos, but run what you brung and porsche brings a boatload of torque at lower rpms making the car more tractable. For reference a 991 turbo S delivers 516lb ft from 2100-4000rpm.

5b. I don't love the sound of ferraris and new turbo porsches sound like nothing. the NA ones sound decent but i prefer my old aircooled pos.

6. Of course its a rich man's game, but there are plenty of buyers of used models that aren't and want to enjoy a premium sports car without dumping tons of money into it. This is where porsche excels. The cars are useable.

mercedes falls short of bentley if you ask me in terms of luxury cars.

My argument was more so that you have to put up with some short comings from the italian cars if you want to enjoy the flair and style.

1. 997 GT2/911 Turbo S...at a tidy discount as well.
2. F12....I got nothing here...never been porsche's segment, except maybe the 928.
3. Panamera Turbo S
4. obviously the choice here is the 918

When it comes to arguments of performance, there are too many variables. Straight line speed, n-ring, shorter tracks, ultimate grip, easiness to drive, electronic trickery, etc.

I would take a 997 GT2 all day over a 458. I'd also take a GT3RS 4.0 over the 458. I like manual transmissions. I'd argue a lot of true car guys would feel the same way.

I base my experiences on cars 430 and earlier. Serious engine, interior, and quality issues all over the place. Stupid things breaking for no reason (355 cat ecus).

I'd argue that higher end 911s and panameras are very much the same market as the 458 and ff, as are the laf and 918. Porsche offers more low buck (relatively) offerings, but their high end, the build numbers are low, the prices are high, and the performance is top notch.

K-A

Yeah, Ferrari's are my ultimate as well. Honestly that was the biggest selling point to me with Maserati. Maser itself doesn't have much of a rich history or anything to me personally, but being able to have something even related to Ferrari at such a "budget" price was enough for me. Until I checked it out. Anyone who thinks that the Ghibli or any 4 door current Maser is like a "4 Door Ferrari" is fooling themselves. In drive they are "hard" and sporty enough to I guess somewhat earn that moniker, relatively, but the engines are really the Ferrari link. They do sound great, but at the same time, being a "V6" bothers me. Ferrari isn't known for "V6's". I'll give them that they managed to make a V6 sound great. To me, when it comes to 6 cylinders, it's gotta be Inline 6 or Flat 6 (which are I believe the only two inherently balanced motors out there, V6's are not inherently balanced, and you can really feel the difference), as I'm generally not in love with V6's in comparison.

Quadcammer

so a 911 turbo S doesn't compete with a 458?

interesting.

XxLHCxX

This wasn't about Ferrari vs. Porsche haha...

But anyways, my two cents for the Quattroporte v S Class:

I also had the dilemma between the Mercedes S550/63, Maserati Quattroporte, or the Porsche Panamera 4S/GTS. I personally liked the old Quattroporte (looks wise) more than the current one as it seemed to look not as exotic/exclusive (albeit this is more of a personal preference). As to the drive, the Quattroporte did seem more sporty than the S, although it had a pretty "bumpy" ride due to probably stiff dampers?? The ride I was looking for was more geared toward the luxury side. The quality of the quattroporte also seemed to have gotten a lot worse. The ignition start button, window switches, etc., can all be found in their Chrysler/Dodge counterparts, which I think is a huge let down. The quality of the Maser just didn't seem on par with Mercedes or Porsche for that matter. Don't get me wrong, the Maserati does have its own personality. People most likely buy the Maserati because of the "badge" to begin with. As well, Maserati is planning to increase their sales by a LOT starting with the Quattroporte and the Ghibili. As such, the exclusivity of the brand will most likely decreased.

As to the Porsche Panamera 4S/GTS. It is an awesome car to drive and feels very luxurious as well. However, the look of the vehicle is not the greatest in my opinion. I mean the second generation has improved a lot by the first generation unfacelifted one, but the proportions are still a little weird for my liking. I also needed to have an extra seat (5 in total) as I have a family of 4 and the optional seat would be beneficial for me. Don't get me wrong, I still really really like the Panamera. The Panamera would most likely appeal to younger buyers.

Germancar1

1. Doesn't matter what Ferrari has or hasn't won, look at the cars. They are indeed related to their racing cars. Trying to say Porsche is more so is really like splitting hairs, they both do the same thing, race to improve the breed. Neither have a clear, head and shoulders advantage here. That is a pitiful excuse for Porsche and their non involvement in F1 really. It is the top of the line racing series in the world in so many ways. Ferrari and McLaren are better for this reason.

3. Yes all that. Porsche is not perfect.

4. Tech, performance, you name it, a different level of driving experience. The complete comparison hasn't been done...yet.

5. You just proved my point actually lol. If you're going to compare turbos to naturally aspirated then you aren't talking apples to apples.

6. I still say it doesn't matter, especially to Ferrari owners. It is long way from a Boxster to to a F12 or a 458i. Mass market compared to ultra exclusive. Porsches are not cheap to run either, again splitting hairs IMO. The Porsche's I've seen being serviced are done an prices that scare the **** out of me and I'm used to having older Mercedes' so I'm not exactly new to this game, but Porsche? Expensive as hell, Ferrari just more so.


The S-Class is a match for the Flying Spur IMO, but not the Mulsanne. Either way Mercedes is at the top. Maserati isn't even close. Much different from the Ferrari vs Porsche argument. Italian cars force you to deal with more because you get more. Their design and low volume production ensure exclusivity and Porsche can't touch that. There is a reason why old Ferraris sell for millions. Porsche is more everyday, and that is fine, but Ferrari way more exotic.

M