SmokinCummins

Is the 2005 model a reliable car, or is it a money pit?

Zach8131

That's a loaded question. Everything depends on the previous owners and who you ask this question to.

I purchased a 2003 S600 from a somewhat reputable dealer and it was a money pit in maintenance. I purchased a second 2003 S600 from a horrid abusive owner and it's a lot better. Mechanically sound, just minor things like flex discs, disable TPMS, trunk latch problem, and a door control module.

SmokinCummins

Is the V12 bi turbo a good engine? What are the weak points?

Zach8131

It's a well made engine. They still use the same engine on the new cars.

The weak points are with the whole car in general and the cost of parts and maintenance. There aren't enough made to justify any good aftermarket parts for the car. Everything needs to be bought at the dealer or second hand from eBay.

Suspension, power steering pump, and engine coil packs are the most expensive pieces. Feel free to look up what people have said in the past.

Jack_88

If you're looking at one, proper operation of the ABC is important, and check the high pressure hoses for any sign of weeping. That's about the most expensive single system to fix when it really goes wrong, but proper maintenance can minimize risk. The engine is very durable, but the coil packs are both failure prone and expensive. Like really expensive. Last thing to look out for is a clogged cowl drain, very common for those to plug up with debris, leading to a water intrusion that takes out a number of delicate control modules. Maintenance records are also important and will clue you in to what you may need in the future. If you don't have records, there are a number of things you will want to get done to be safe.

That said, the car accelerates like a lear jet on takeoff, leaving quite a lot of sports cars in it's wake, while providing unrivaled comfort. The electrics and features, while showing their age, are still nice enough and suit the price point of the car. Put a tune on it, and it really gets lively. Sure, it's a needy car, but when you get it on point, it's really quite nice. If you want reliability, get an S8. Not as much power, but still quite quick, also very comfortable, and much lower risk systems. AWD means the power is put to the ground with absolute authority, and the Gallardo sourced V10 sounds stunning.

tusabes

Abc suspension and coil packs are common failures and easy $2000-3000 to fix if not more

Those are really the only big failure items

trustz

I got my 2005 S600 with 130K on it, for past 8 month, I replace one bank of Coil pack, both front and rear valve block and some relate parts, oil change, rear trunk support and a battery. total cost about $2k(All DIY) to keep it running without issue. the car is only cost about $10k when I bought at that time, but for some reason, if you want to get one now, its about $2k-3k more ! Don't know why ?? Engine is very smooth, a lot better than my W210 E55 V8 engine !! if you have $15k in budget, I say go find one below $12k and you have $3k for repair bad parts! For the power and performance, you will love it !!

jny08ks

And Rebuilt parts are available for all expensive parts for fraction of new one's cost . They work good. So you don't have to be scared . None MB cars repair cost is the same or more if there's no warranty. 0 to 60 is 4.3 sec. Very fast same as ferrary if not better. Check campain history if abc hose is done. If not MB still do it for free . Thanks, Good luck

Jack_88

*Ferrari. Also, definitely not better, but equal to the 612 Scaglietti in terms of acceleration, but missing that special something the folks in Maranello do so well when the road starts to get twisty. Go ahead and challenge the prancing horse at the red light, but you might just want to let it go when you get to the first bend. Also that Ferrari 12 pot makes an incomparable noise. Apples and oranges, my friend.

Girly_tt

If you're mechanically inclined with a good set of tools, they really are not bad to work on yourself.

They can get very costly, if you need to pay a shop to diagnose and/or repair issues.

I daily drive mine (05 s600) , we bought it with a bunch of issues and it has some quirks we are working out still. But overall, it's a phenomenal car top to bottom. Read up on the ABC system and coil packs. They can be tackled on your own if they go bad, piece by piece if/as needed if you can diagnose and repair yourself.

Then they are very cost effective as far as ownership goes.

Consider paying more up front for one with a service history with documentation if you are not one to get your hands dirty.

Welwynnick

Never heard it described like that before :-)
I've driven both, and I think an S600 has a way to fight back.

First step is a tune, and the necessary care and attention to keep it running right. It takes more than changing oil and filter.

Second, put a set of rear wheels and tires on the front. That really wakes up the chassis. It doesn't turn it into a Ferrari beater, but it realises a lot of hidden character and potential.

The 612 is a special car, but its nerve-shredding on a long drive in comparison with the Merc.

Nick

shooffnyc

I would think a RENNTech ECU/TCU tune would take it on a straight run no?

Welwynnick

As long as the intercooler was working properly.

You might be surprised how close it's possible to get in the corners, too.

Nick

wallyp

It is almost certain that the driver will be the limiting factor in both cars.

Jack_88

That is an extremely accurate statement.

Welwynnick

If you were the limiting factor, why would you buy such a fast car in the first place?


Nick

Jack_88

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Michael Schumacher, but I'm pretty good. With the added feedback, I'd expect the Ferrari to be the faster in my hands than the CL when pushed. I don't make a habit of pushing the CL in the corners, however, because it's not as much fun without the feedback. The car does what you ask, but doesn't really talk to you. That hurts confidence in any driver, and will make them slower unless they have a lot of seat time pushing the car. Look at the Stig's run with the CL65. It's not exactly stunning. If the CL keeps up with the likes of that Ferarri, it's down to the lack of developed skill of the Ferrari driver to take advantage of it's talents. I love my car, but I'll stick to straight line brawling with it.

Welwynnick

When they come out of the factory, most ABC-equipped cars have staggered wheels, which are a disaster IMHO, and completely mask the amazing potential of these cars.

I wish I could persuade every V12TT owner to do what I've done, and fit rear wheels to the front as well. 245 tires are rather overwhelmed by the weight of that engine, and leave the car feeling smooth and stable, but heavy, soggy, nose-heavy and unresponsive.

Putting 265 or 275 tires on the front immediately makes it seem, if not like a supercar, then at least a proper sports saloon (but one with a comfortable ride). Of course there's more grip, so you can comfortably and confidently corner faster, which is great fun, and opens out the whole performance envelope.

More than that though, a square-wheeled W215/220 doesn't simply behave like a big, dumb, sporty 4WD Audi, going round corners fast, but with little deft, poise or pleasure. The chassis maintains it's balance up to high cornering speeds without going wayward at either the front or the rear. Yes, it's a bit inert, and not very adjustable, like a real sports car would be, but it's still good fun and genuinely capable.

I read some road tests, and found that big Mercs score about 0.86 - 0.87 lateral g, while the 612 manages 0.88 - 0.89. Interestingly, the 575 scored 0.92. 275's all round make my car MUCH better in corners, and I'd be quite confident of getting over 0.90 g.

Reliability and maintainability aside, I think MB did an amazing job with ABC, but nobody gets to appreciate the potential. No, it will never be as engaging as a proper sports car. One thing it won't do is hang the tail out for fun (the Stig shouldn't have bothered with that, it's quite unmanageable) but if you keep it straight like a road car on the road, its got real potential

I had an ABS senor fail a while ago, so I had to drive without ABC, ESC or TC, and it was just EVIL in the wet. It feels like the chassis is designed around having all the electronics on.

Nick

Jack_88

I'll take your word for it on the tires, the tires on it now were the OEM staggered setup, brand new from a couple weeks before I took possession of the car. I'll have to call you on the big, dumb 4WD Audi comment, though. My previous D4 A8 was excellent in the corners, understeer being present only at the very limit. It was quite tossable, and while it did allow for a small amount more of body motion than the CL, the handling was quite predictable and never unsettling. I was certainly much more comfortable pushing that car, given it always gave me a sense of what the tires were doing. But, as you have pointed out, the Audi had squared off tires, as opposed to the staggered setup of my CL. Next time I need tires, I'll have to heed your advice and make the change. Maybe that will wake up the big coupe.

hvacdude

Back to the original thread starter question; is the S 600 a money pit ?
Yes it is {IMO}. Many of the repairs you are likely to encounter on the 600 require the engine to be raised to fix them. The coil packs burn out regularly. Motor and trans mounts go bad . The big V12 beats up the transmission. Everything under the hood is hard to get to with the enormous engine getting in the way. Parts are hard to find and expensive. Repair shops don't like to work on them. There are not many mechanics qualified to work on them. I'm sure they are awesome cars. Until something breaks. There is a whole lot of stuff to break under the hood. They are "temperamental" .
Better off to get A S 55 AMG. Practically the same HP and performance as the S 600 and much easier and cheaper to repair. The M113 engine is almost "bullet proof". The parts are readily available and reasonably priced {for a benz}. The 600 has a bit nicer interior, lots of wood trim. You can always add the extra wood parts the 600 has, to a S55. The S55 AMG has the paddle shifters and the sport steering wheel. The S55 has the sport front bumper, the sport side skirts, the sport dual exhaust, the big AMG brakes.
IMO the S55 offers almost the same performance, is a "sportier" car, cheaper to maintain, easier to repair, the interior can be upgraded with wood from a 600, It's just more practical to own and maintain. The 600 is a awesome car, but it has the potential to bust your wallet real bad. The S55 is the way to go if you want A older, high performance Benz. The S55 has way more high performance mods you can add on to it than the 600.
I have owned a 2005 S55AMG for a little over a year now. I have followed the W220 forums daily since. If you are concerned about $$ and want a bad a$$ Benz, the S55 is the way to go.

Welwynnick

I'm not trying to rubbish anyone else's cars, just paraphrasing what all the road tests say, and in any case I used to have an Audi too (S8). Heck, I even used to have a Volvo estate. My ideal car is probably an M5, so I've strayed from the path a few times... For the record these are the best cars I've owned in one way or another:

Audi S8 : Best looking and best in snow
BMW 750iL V12 : Best refinement
Ford Mondeo : Best steering
Jaguar XJ12 : Best interior
Lexus Soarer Active : Best handling
Mercedes S600 : Fastest
Peugeot 406 : Best ride
Rover 3500 V8 tuned : Best noise
Volvo V70 D5 : Best seats

Apart from power, the Mercedes isn't best at anything, so perhaps it's a one-trick pony? In fact, without a tune and square wheels, it doesn't even drive that great. Did I really just write that?

Nothing's perfect, of course. Indeed, each of the cars above was positively BAD in some respects. The Audi and Jag were thirsty, the BMW rolled in corners, the Ford has a horrible interior, the Lexus had a poor ride, the Peugeot had soft seats and the Volvo was surprisingly cramped behind.

The Mercedes is hardly reliable, but otherwise it's good at everything. Yes, the Lexus had a bit more grip, but the MB rides much better. The BMW is a slightly better cruiser, but the MB is much faster. The Audi does handle better than other (stock) big saloons, but with the right wheels & tires, the Lexus and Merc are on a different level.

My car enthusiast friends and relatives have owned much sportier cars than me, and I've driven many of them (Porsche, Ferrari, TVR, M-cars). I wouldn't stake my house on whether my S600 could out-accelerate or out-corner a 612, 911 or M5, but on a good day (good ignition, good IC, good tires) I think its right up there, while still playing the luxo-barge.

I think it's the Merc's breadth of abilities and lack of compromise that is unbeatable. It's pure talent.

Nick

Jack_88

I get it, Nick. Nothing does everything, but every good car strikes a balance that's perfect for someone. The CL has a different mission than the S8 or Ferrari. The current S8 actually outperforms any current S-class, and is my next in my sights. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy the sledgehammer V12 and smooth ride. I've had a few luxobarge barnstormers and the CL quickest of them. The XJR was the best driver, A8 best interior and economy(8-speed, wonders of modern technology,) CL is the fastest, and the CTS-V was the best handling.

To the OP, answering your question in as few words as possible, the S600 is a money pit if you pay someone to do everything, it's alright if you can do most diagnosis and repair yourself.

hyperion667

Well, have a lot of extra money?