Denis_E55

The thread is done whenever the person behind the monitor doesn't click on it. There is nothing in this thread that said you have to open it and read it. If the thread doesn't interest you then keep scrolling and move along. It shall live on

hyperion667

whatever you say Denise

Mike5215

THAT IS IT!!! I AM GOING TO PROTEST IN THIS THREAD EVERY DAY UNTIL IT IS NO LONGER ON THE FRONT PAGE! WHO'S WITH ME?!

alexandercat76

Go protest with a banner in front of Tutti Frutti

PeterUbers

Let's go back and define excellent....

mnje350

I don't know either the buyer or seller in this matter but it made me reflect on a recent transaction that I was involved in. I was a seller of some tires in an online transaction. I represented that the tires were once mounted but never used and had never been driven on. The tires were in "excellent" condition. I posted hi-res photos of the tires and looked them over very well before making those statements.

The buyer received the tires and complained that I had mis-represented the tires. He claimed that there was a gash in one of the side walls. I told him that I honestly did not see the gash and doubted his claim. My resolution was to tell him to take the tires to whom ever he was going to have mount them and ask the installer to tell him if the tire was good or not. If the installer told him that the tire was bad, I would refund his money and he could keep the tire. I did not want the tire back.

The buyer was very pleased with my response, did take the tires to be installed and was told that the tire was fine. The whole matter could have gotten ugly but ended up working out. At first the guy who bought the tires from me was worried about getting screwed. I knew the condition of the tires I shipped him and put my fate and money it the buyers hands. He could have easily said that that the tire was crap and he wanted his money back. I would have refunded him too. In the end, he was honest and was happy with the transaction once he had an independent party confirm the condition of the tire I sold him.

I think that there is a certain amount of risk you take when you buy anything sight unseen. Photos can't tell the whole story. In the end honesty and integrity are everything. If the guy I sold those tires too really felt screwed, then I would not have been happy with the deal. That's why I offered to refund his money and let him keep the tires.

Of course things can get damaged in shipment and if packaged properly, that's neither the buyer or sellers fault. But unless you are in the business of selling wheels, or tires or what ever, I see that as part of the risk and the wild card in online transactions of this sort. Perhaps the seller should have offered to take the wheels back for a refund; return freight paid by the buyer. The buyer would have been out a lot less money. Or, the buyer could sell the wheels and recoup some of his losses and move on. Either way, I don't think this is going to work out as a win - win situation for buyer or seller. That's a shame.

PeterUbers

All this drama to save what ... $400....$500....$600 ??

Buy new from reputable companies and have the security of a real business standing behind a real product

mnje350

That is always a good option.

Denis_E55

If FedEX denies the claim I think I am going to push the claim into small claims court, I spoke to my attorney and she said I have a right to. We exchanged a few emails the other day and he did admit that he listed them as excellent and wanted me to get a price to repair the bent wheel. This is turning into a headache more than it should be, buying parts online shouldn't be this hard so I will wait for FedEX to let me know and then file suit if I have to.

Alex, you making the banners for tutti frutti?

Yidney

Does the court even have jurisdiction over the seller? Assuming the seller lives in another state, what will you do with a judgment even if you get one? Spend the money to try and collect on it? In fact, what will you do even if the seller lives down the street and lets a judgment be entered against himself. Then what? You are just making your own headache bigger. You've learned not everybody is honest. But you probably knew that already. The seller has to live with not being honest, but he probably does not care or else he would be honest. Seems like there is nothing more to do here other than to be more careful next time.


EDIT: Also, you have to get effective service of the compliant on the seller before you can go to court. Check your local court rules, but mailing usually will not cut it. So there's more money for a process server. All sssuming your court has jurisdiction.

Denis_E55

I live in Indiana, he is in Maryland, my attorney can find an attorney over there and set everything up. You are allowed to file suit in another state where the seller, shipper or whatever problem is. I paid the money to his buisness paypal account, emails came from his business email so it will not be hard to get an attorney to set everything up and "sue" the business and him as a representative. What will I do? I will take the proof to the court about what i was sold and what i was told. I didn't get the wheels that were listed in excellent condition, the court will see that he lied and sold something that was damaged and failed to mention it. I will go after all my fees and the wheels. It's on black and white, in the past few emails he admit to selling excellent wheels that weren't excellent. I think it's worth a shot. You've got to stay positive if you want to get somewhere.

Yidney

I was not questioning the merits of your case or whether you can win it. So you are going to travel to Maryland to testify? You can't put on a case through an attorney. Unless the seller doesn't show up - then you can get a default judgment. But that still does not answer what you will do with a judgment if you get one.

Denis_E55

Yes, I will make the 9hour drive and make my appearance in court. If I get a judgement then I will go on about my life, nothing else to it.

Yidney

OK, if that's worth it to you then go for it. But I just wanted to make sure that you understand what getting a judgment means. The court will enter a judgment that he owns you $1,500 or whatever. That does not mean he actually will pay it. The court isn't going to arrest him or anything. The only way you get your money if he does not pay the judgment is to then start a whole new proceeding to collect the judgment - garnish his wages, etc. All of this will cost you more than he owes you. But if you want to do it, more power to you.

Denis_E55

If the headache is worth $1400 to him it's worth it to me.

Yidney

Well, if you are serious about it, then just do it. Once he gets served with the complaint he may just decide to undo the deal and give you your money back because if he is employed by a regular employer let me tell you that not many employees are very happy when their private business becomes public and their employer gets the notice that they have a judgment against them and payroll has to start sending part of his paycheck to you.

Schnellfahrer

Scratches and blemishes on used wheels are pretty normal, however, a bent wheel is obviously unacceptable. Btw. I would never have tires "Made in China" on my car.

aznevoviii

Ok, let me chime in. Obviously i have been reading this thread and see where its going to. I wrote up a letter with signiture with every detailed time chart and high res pictures to Denis so he can send them to FedEx. The damages were OBVIOUS that FedEx made, if they decide not to cover under their insurance, thats not mich i can do as a shipper than trying to help him more to get the result out from Fedex.

I asked him to get the quote from the alloy wheel company to straighten the bend on one of wheels, because i wasnt sure who and how that happened and i wanted to take care of it, Because without that bend, the wheels "WERE" in excellent very good shape. I obviously touched up some chips because they were used and mostly around lug bolt holes and center caps area, and one larger "mark or scratch" from the road. They were ZERO from curb rash. I told him i will tape a touchup paint inside the wheel so he also can use it for himself later on.

Now he wants to take this to court, i have zero problem with that. I already have all the documents and photos to proove that the damages were not done by me but FedEx. I sincerely told him and apologize, and felt sorry for FedEx denying his claim and i meant it. Now its up to the judgment what they think about this case.

Also the email, the paypal account is my personal Gmail accout, the bank thats connected to is my personal account, has nothing to do with my business, FYI.

Denis, i think you are trying to make this too big headche yourself. I know its not my situation to tell you because i or fedex have might caused it. I asked and told you before, lets try to resolve this by us talking and taking care of the bend.

You and all of thousands of people here gets the point, refunding you and taking wheels back is NOT in my book and not going to happened. i dont know if you just dont like this wheels anymore after all.

PeterUbers

If I were the seller id just refund the money and pay to have these garbage wheels mailed back to me

DaveW68

WHPH28

Any Walking Dead fans would get this LOL!

WHPH28

Well, in my opinion since we all know what happened. You two just need to work it out as gentleman. We all know what happened, continuing to beat it to death on here with all of us just adds fuel to the fire.

I wish both of you a good resolution to the problem. I'm sure it will work out.

cmpcpro

To seller: If you did indeed claim these wheels to be in excellent condition and you just now admitted above to using touch up paint anywhere on them I am afraid that alone, not to mention the bend will probably be an instant loss in court. I understand they are used wheels, but that may be where you miss understood. There are many things out there that are used and excellent. I buy NOS parts for my 55 Pontiac all day. They are 60 years old, in the box.. still excellent. When you use the word excellent, new or used it means perfect. New or used has no greater or less meaning to the word excellent. You can have damaged new things and perfect used things. Just a bit of advice, because if he does decide to sue, before you have to pay his court fees too it may be easier to work something out.. Just my thoughts on it.

PeterUbers

Perfectly put.

There is a responsibility you have to a buyer if you are a seller. You can't just sell things to sell things and expect to a) ever be respected again as a seller or b) be able to sleep well at night if you do not understand how to represent and describe a product you are selling, or if purposefully mislead potential buyers.

I sell things from ten dollars in value to $1000 in value on eBay routinely and I take my eBay rating very seriously to the point where I sold as is products perfectly described in MY opinion, but the buyer disagreed and I refunded the money and re shipping fees or just refunded the money and allowed them to keep the product (for low low value items) if they chose.

You always have an option not to sell stuff and you'll never find yourself in this position.

Mike5215

It's a dead loser in court. "Excellent" is a subjective term, not something that is contractual or enforceable in court, and the wheels were represented as "used" for 1500 miles. Unless there was an agreement that the buyer had some specified period of time to inspect and accept the condition or return the wheels for a refund, they were sold "as is". A court can't determine what a used wheel should look like after 1500 miles of use. Is there a 1500 mile stretch of road in America that doesn't have loose gravel or a pothole in it?

In this instance, the buyer and the seller have different interpretations of the term "excellent". That's not something the court can or will rectify.

The court will say (correctly) that the buyer had the opportunity to inspect the wheels personally or via an agent, or to request better photos, including photos of the backs of the wheels, or to use the protection of PayPal. Instead, he chose to conspire with the seller to defraud PayPal and avoid their fees.

No, legally Denis' goose is cooked and he knows that. This is an ethical issue amongst the members of the forum. As I said from the outset, the right recourse is for Az to refund a couple hundred bucks to get the bent wheel trued.

Generally speaking, as a prior poster pointed out, small claims actions result in extra time an expense in exchange for a virtually unenforceable paper judgment. And they usually require two trips to court, since most small claims courts try to whittle down the case load with at least one shot at a mediation. Even after winning a judgment, a garnishment is a whole separate action, also requiring a lawyer, a hearing, and filing fees, and it has to be re-filed every time the defendant changes jobs.

The one and only lesson here is for forum members to be fair with one another. If you both agree to process a transaction through PayPal as "family", treat each other like family.