M275 65 AMG Stock boost pressure
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
M275 65 AMG Stock boost pressure
HI all
I have tried searching for this info, but come across conflicting results.
Some posts on here say 1.5 bar (21 psi)
M275 training document says 1.9 bar (27 PSI) (that cant be right).
I am seeing a max in midrange of 17.5 psi on my S65 AMG (221).
Can anybody confirm what its meant to be?
I have tried searching for this info, but come across conflicting results.
Some posts on here say 1.5 bar (21 psi)
M275 training document says 1.9 bar (27 PSI) (that cant be right).
I am seeing a max in midrange of 17.5 psi on my S65 AMG (221).
Can anybody confirm what its meant to be?
#3
Super Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Nick
So I am not making the right amount of boost. Air filters are new. IAT's under 70 deg c (bleed temp), around 25-35 above ambient on the motorway.
I assume things to check are, vaccum leaks to the actuator/turbos and boost leaks in the air inlet system?
So I am not making the right amount of boost. Air filters are new. IAT's under 70 deg c (bleed temp), around 25-35 above ambient on the motorway.
I assume things to check are, vaccum leaks to the actuator/turbos and boost leaks in the air inlet system?
Last edited by alexanderfoti; 11-02-2016 at 03:17 PM.
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alexanderfoti (11-02-2016)
#6
Super Member
Thread Starter
checking the Vac line diagrams, it seems as though boost can leak from both the wastegate control lines, and the diverter valve air lines.... is that right?
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yeah it can, but I doubt that will be your greatest problem.
I believe the first place to look would be at the hose joints on the turbo outlets and IC inlets.
Do you get any noises, errors or misfires when you hit max torque / middle revs?
Nick
I believe the first place to look would be at the hose joints on the turbo outlets and IC inlets.
Do you get any noises, errors or misfires when you hit max torque / middle revs?
Nick
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#8
Super Member
Thread Starter
I will double check those clamps etc, and possibly replace them with larger ones.
I will also do so me data logging rather than just looking at the display whilst driving....
#9
MBWorld Fanatic!
Then I replaced the IC inlet hose clips with much sturdier T-bolt clamps, and the misfire went away, and the engine would accept WOT all day.
Then the gearbox broke .....
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; 11-03-2016 at 03:03 PM.
#10
Super Member
Thread Starter
Ordering them now
I might have one misfire at WOT that I thought might be the gearbox, but now you mention it, could be a misfire.
#12
Super Member
Thread Starter
OK, confused now. Does the 65 achieve higher power with larger turbo's at the same boost level as the 600 version of the 275?
Edit: EPC shows different part numbers, maybe that's the case?
Edit: EPC shows different part numbers, maybe that's the case?
Last edited by alexanderfoti; 11-04-2016 at 04:40 AM.
#13
Senior Member
No, not the same boost level.
65 stock has significantly more boost than 600 stock. 600 was detuned for the markets to have same power output like the SL55.
With tuned ECU you can drive a little more boost in the 65 over the 600, because of the bigger Turbine wheels. But there is not much difference. The Black Series 65 has also bigger turbine housing and wheels and this makes more of a difference.
65 stock has significantly more boost than 600 stock. 600 was detuned for the markets to have same power output like the SL55.
With tuned ECU you can drive a little more boost in the 65 over the 600, because of the bigger Turbine wheels. But there is not much difference. The Black Series 65 has also bigger turbine housing and wheels and this makes more of a difference.
#14
Super Member
Thread Starter
No, not the same boost level.
65 stock has significantly more boost than 600 stock. 600 was detuned for the markets to have same power output like the SL55.
With tuned ECU you can drive a little more boost in the 65 over the 600, because of the bigger Turbine wheels. But there is not much difference. The Black Series 65 has also bigger turbine housing and wheels and this makes more of a difference.
65 stock has significantly more boost than 600 stock. 600 was detuned for the markets to have same power output like the SL55.
With tuned ECU you can drive a little more boost in the 65 over the 600, because of the bigger Turbine wheels. But there is not much difference. The Black Series 65 has also bigger turbine housing and wheels and this makes more of a difference.
M275 - 65 AMG - More boost then M275 600 and tuneable for more boost due to bigger turbine wheels
M275 600 - less boost stock of all, and not capable of as much boost as the 65 turbos?
And
17.5 psi is adequate for the M275 E60? I am hearing MAX tune should not be higher than 21psi?
#16
Super Member
Thread Starter
#17
My SL 65 AMG 2006 has about 17,5 PSI ( 1,2 bar ) also and it's probably stock.
Today it's about 25'C outside and intake at 17,5 PSI was ~47'C on 100% load 4th gear from low rpm to end.
It's normal or I must to find the problem why it's not 21 PSI ?
Read via OBD port + application Torque PRO ( perfect app )
Today it's about 25'C outside and intake at 17,5 PSI was ~47'C on 100% load 4th gear from low rpm to end.
It's normal or I must to find the problem why it's not 21 PSI ?
Read via OBD port + application Torque PRO ( perfect app )
Last edited by HgoAMG; 06-02-2018 at 11:31 AM.
#18
Super Member
Thread Starter
My SL 65 AMG 2006 has about 17,5 PSI ( 1,2 bar ) also and it's probably stock.
Today it's about 25'C outside and intake at 17,5 PSI was ~47'C on 100% load 4th gear from low rpm to end.
It's normal or I must to find the problem why it's not 21 PSI ?
Read via OBD port + application Torque PRO ( perfect app )
Today it's about 25'C outside and intake at 17,5 PSI was ~47'C on 100% load 4th gear from low rpm to end.
It's normal or I must to find the problem why it's not 21 PSI ?
Read via OBD port + application Torque PRO ( perfect app )
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HgoAMG (06-02-2018)
#19
Ok thank you Bro. I spend all day with car looking for any leaks etc.
I made test 5 min ago ( in night 14'C outside ) and also get 18 psi at about 33'C Intake ( A/C off- it drop few 'C intake without A/C ).
Damn that car is really fast in stock I can't waiting for new mods and about 700 HP
After changing tyres to new Pilot Sport 4S it really start kicking in back
I made test 5 min ago ( in night 14'C outside ) and also get 18 psi at about 33'C Intake ( A/C off- it drop few 'C intake without A/C ).
Damn that car is really fast in stock I can't waiting for new mods and about 700 HP
After changing tyres to new Pilot Sport 4S it really start kicking in back
Last edited by HgoAMG; 06-02-2018 at 06:44 PM.
#20
Ok thank you Bro. I spend all day with car looking for any leaks etc.
I made test 5 min ago ( in night 14'C outside ) and also get 18 psi at about 33'C Intake ( A/C off- it drop few 'C intake without A/C ).
Damn that car is really fast in stock I can't waiting for new mods and about 700 HP
After changing tyres to new Pilot Sport 4S it really start kicking in back
I made test 5 min ago ( in night 14'C outside ) and also get 18 psi at about 33'C Intake ( A/C off- it drop few 'C intake without A/C ).
Damn that car is really fast in stock I can't waiting for new mods and about 700 HP
After changing tyres to new Pilot Sport 4S it really start kicking in back
The boost pressure should spike at lower rpm to 21 and then taper off as rpm builds (due to smallish turbine). This is why with upgraded turbos and larger turbines, the system is able to hold 21 psi to redline and yield much better powerband ala sl65 black series.
#21
Super Member
Thread Starter
That is exactly how my mapped 65 behaves.
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TerranceSl65 (03-29-2020)
#22
It likely has to do with when and how the logs were run (roll vs from dead stop and the gear it is in). Stock boost pressure for a 65 is 21 psi and change. The fact that we get lower on logs etc is that the turbos are past their efficiency and cannot maintain boost at those flow rates at upper rpm. Perhaps ESP also controls boost and this has something to do with lack of spike??
I can confirm seeing 21psi without tune during spike and then slow taper down.
#23
Super Member
Thread Starter
It likely has to do with when and how the logs were run (roll vs from dead stop and the gear it is in). Stock boost pressure for a 65 is 21 psi and change. The fact that we get lower on logs etc is that the turbos are past their efficiency and cannot maintain boost at those flow rates at upper rpm. Perhaps ESP also controls boost and this has something to do with lack of spike??
I can confirm seeing 21psi without tune during spike and then slow taper down.
I can confirm seeing 21psi without tune during spike and then slow taper down.
The TCU has primary control over torque output and therefore boost pressure control.
Stock you see 18.5 for the majority
Tuned you see 21.5/22 for the majority.
My logs were done on the road, and dyno at various times. Take a look at DUMD'S thread on this SL65 its very informative reading, especially regarding boost pressures.
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TerranceSl65 (03-29-2020)
#24
A spike is a spike, I'm talking about commanded/observed actual boost pressure for 2000rpm of the rev range. I spike to 24+ psi but its just a spike, nothing to do with what the car is actualy running.
The TCU has primary control over torque output and therefore boost pressure control.
Stock you see 18.5 for the majority
Tuned you see 21.5/22 for the majority.
My logs were done on the road, and dyno at various times. Take a look at DUMD'S thread on this SL65 its very informative reading, especially regarding boost pressures.
The TCU has primary control over torque output and therefore boost pressure control.
Stock you see 18.5 for the majority
Tuned you see 21.5/22 for the majority.
My logs were done on the road, and dyno at various times. Take a look at DUMD'S thread on this SL65 its very informative reading, especially regarding boost pressures.
A spike in boost pressure is actual pressure being generated by the turbo and will read on a log. This spike in boost should reach 21.7 and then taper. Here is an article which explains that a system designed with a boost spike will increase low end torque and response and is designed into some stock turbo systems. http://www.turbosmart.com/technical-...ing-explained/
Mercedes Official published "maximum" boost pressure for m275 E60 is 1.5 bar (i.e. roughly 21.8 psi). In this case, the spike is actually the maximum boost pressure you should see stock which then tapers down after 3500 rpm. If that were not being registered than either (1) the car is not running 100% perfectly or (2) the datalogger is lagging and not capturing the data perfectly. After replacing every single component in the boost control system, I can see many areas for failure here which is why given the relatively cheap cost for new components I went ahead and replaced everything.
I do wonder whether the traction system could be a culprit given its integration with the whole ecu and tcu.
Cheers
#25
Super Member
Thread Starter
The M275 Training document is inaccurate on many points, as many changes are made on a per vehicle basis,
Where are you reading this "official Mercedes published value". I am relaying my personal experience with this platform.
The boost spikes at 4k rpm, it is not mapped to spike .
Where are you reading this "official Mercedes published value". I am relaying my personal experience with this platform.
The boost spikes at 4k rpm, it is not mapped to spike .