Benz-O-Rama

Guys, there is information scattered throughout threads, some of which have nothing to do with V12TT air intake. We all know it's a problem. The OEM boxes are a choke point, and at the same time these cars heat soak almost immediately. As of today, only Speedriven offers an intake solution that you can readily order, and nobody offers a true CAI.

How about we put all thoughts, ideas, pics, reviews, data, successes, failures, etc.. in one thread for ease of learning.

Due to the limited space in front of the radiator support of the pre-facelifted R230, not many people have tried plumbing it out front and have the filters sit right behind the grill. So, many use another solution that unfortunately, means ingesting under hood air. The post face lifted R230s have more room, and a few members have claimed success in creating a true CAI. If you have a face lifted car, I'd think that's the route to go.

So, my thoughts on the under hood, warm air intake solution...

Initial temp of air ingestion will be higher, no doubt, when sitting still. Say, at the drag strip starting line. But, the filters would live right behind the line of demarcation (in a single filter per side setup), where the snorkel ingress is. When the car is in motion, and not ingesting only heated air, the charge air might be moving at a rate quick enough to render under hood heat irrelevant. Well, not irrelevant, but only subject to same rate of soak you'd see from a stock setup. Add to that, the gain in CFM might also overcome the possibility of power loss from spark retardation due to increased IAT. The main issue I see is the material used. Metal gets hot, real hot. So if the intake tubes used, get superheated, I can see IAT in stop and go traffic, get stratospheric. Double whammy, right? Static under hood air ingestion, plus superheated plumbing. I suppose some of that can be mitigated with some sort of thermal barrier. Either some sort of shielding, which would be unsightly, or more likely a coating or wrap on the tubes.

I dunno. Discuss...

I'd love to hear Speedriven's technical findings since they developed a kit. Wonder why they went with a quad filter setup, with two of them sitting right on top of the valve covers.

Benz-O-Rama

Yeah, of course the perfect solution is a true CAI with filters outside of the engine compartment. Unfortunately, on the pre-faceflifted r230's, it's not an option. Or at least not an elegant option that can be used on a daily driver that sees weather. Thoughts of running through the underbody panels with a scoop come to mind. So, we have 2 real choices. OEM, or under hood intake with higher CFM, but higher temp of initial charge.

Zax63

So I am an S guy, but I am wrestling with the same issue myself. What about a low profile vent (like a naca duct) in the hood somewhere to at least vent the heat? Anywhere it can be placed where water drainage wouldn't be an issue, or some form of water safe inlet?

Benz-O-Rama

Some of the wide body guys, thericker specifically, did a vented hood, where the top mount coolers are. It looks great, but for a non-body kit car, probably wouldn't look elegant. But yes, any type of venting would certainly help. Nothing on the market readily available of course.

On some of the Brabus rocket cars, they do vents with top mount filters that seat right up against it. Probably not a good wet weather solution.

blackbenzz

Where are the high beams located on these cars? Drill em out! lol. I drive mine in all kinds of weather and it's just fine

shardul

iTrader: (1)

what about routing brake duct piping from under the car to the cone filters in the engine bay

Benz-O-Rama

Headlamps aren't separate like on your CLK.

Id have to see where it plumbs. Don't want to put ingress near possible debris and water ingestion points. Car isn't driven in the rain on purpose, but I'd hate to get caught.

blackbenzz

My clk headlights are not seperate. The art of fabrication

Benz-O-Rama

Ooooooooh! They just look separate from the outside of the car? Hmmmmmm, I always thought you just removed the 'second' lamp and routed your tubes there. Learned something tonight....

ttboost

I looked at running something out of the intake tube holes as well as down below...the drivers side "hole" is obscured by some lines/tubing, that is short and stiff, so no way to easily "move it out of the way". There is only about 2in between the front of the engine and the front shroud, so no piping will fit in there, to go downward...at least easily...not sure how crazy I want to get...

shardul

iTrader: (1)

What if we tweak the stock air box design with larger inlet and outlets? This would also let us leave the stock engine cover which a lot of us like.

ttboost

I was considering that at first. Actually using the stock air box dimensions as a template, (so as to still fit in stock configuration) then redesign it, so that air comes into the cover, then goes DOWN through the filter into the turbo, instead of the existing design where it comes UP through the filter, then over to a small slit and down through a restricted passageway to the turbo. Decided to try the easy way out first. I was thinking that the inlet to the air box should actually be in the cover, with the filter below, then down to the turbo...

carlsturm

A hood scoop with CAI is a serious consideration if you're not adverse to messing with the aesthetics.

NEMES1S

If someone was handy with fiberglass, I think either make a shield to go over the front of the engine and use a speedriven style kit or the facory style box and just make it beefier and capable of using a better cfm filter that would still allow the hose connection to in front of the radiator.

Thericker

& detailed specs on making your own CAI outtve silicone tubing & SS joiners etc that both show massive hp/tq gains (even w/out routing filters out of eng bay, butting them directly up to oem openings works wonders) I'm left scratching my head seeing guys like (V12TTenthusiast etc) keep trying to reinvent the wheel

Though if I were to do it again starting w/clean sheet of paper, this design from Aston Martins one-77 V12 has the right stuff Simple & elegant...



The cold air is being drawn in directly from these vented louvers over fenders, obvious carbon fiber airbox underneath that then routes directly to engine etc..


And for the stubborn at heart... Here's what can be made.. (Any competent DIY'er can replicate what I've done for under $300 in Silicone tubing/SS joiners/multi-sized worm gear clamps/header wrap/foam lampshade filters, even mounted in engine bay the perf gains are dyno proven 35-40 whp thru most rpm band..

W/silicone tubing I was able to go up to 4.5" diameter increasing cfm volume dramatically vs 3" SS tubing (tight tollerences in m275 & myriad of little protusions limit the sizing of metal tubing)

Also using Slicone tubing vs SS tubing on the v12tt is integral to dissipate heat as much as possible.. IE there's solid reasoning behind the majority of any OEM air intake turbo or supercharged platform being made from plastic or Carbon Fiber as seen on super exotics like AM one-77 above etc..

Big hint REMOVE hood lining, it wont hurt your paint (my hood is made of fiberglass, w/carbon fiber vents, if ANY heat damage were to occur by removing said hood heat insulation I'd of seen it in the past 2 yrs running this setup. I also did same w/stock steel hood no paint issues whatsoever)

The thick hood insulation is mainly for sound deadening, as is the overly restrictive oem airboxes, the main demographic these German sleds are advertised/sold to are ancient Power Captains

V12TTenthusiast

I've been looking at some of the Brabus setups like they did with the SL65 black series where they had the modded airbox with the open square filters, I'm guessing maybe it gets air via the air vents in the BS hood.

But I think best setup so far is on the R230 facelift with the filters in front of the radiator, which is gonna go on when the BS kit is being fitted, as for the 03-08 headlights I'm thinking a modded air box is best

Benz-O-Rama

I was hoping Sean would chime in. He's done the most legwork when it comes to to these intakes.

No problem with the silicone tubing collapsing on itself under heavy throttle?

Thericker

Absolutely not, the SS joiners keep the soft silicone from becoming spaghetti.. I wrote about this in another intake thread, our enemy the heat in this case actually helps making the soft silicone hard after about 4-6 wks, the extreme heat to extreme cold overnight literally forges the silicone to accecpt ANY shape permanently that you want to put it into, all the annoying little protruding bits like coilpacks etc etc act like fitment points as each car is slightly different as well is left to right air intake pathways to turbo inlets.

You can pull them off in seconds, change filters or for routine maintenance and they fit snuggly back into place in seconds as plug n' play as it gets. Zero collapse, zero movement. Key here is when you 1st piece your tubing together the heat will make them softer, just check them every couple days during this curing process to make CERTAIN the engine movement hasn't changed your desired fitment location IE manually push/pull them into place as they're warm/hott the silicone is like Clay (no punn intended) after doing this several times when they move slightly during this curing process they're like a custom carbon composite intake.

The header wrap is integral too, APPLY it LAST after fitment is perfect. It makes huge diff in how hot they get. Even silicone will be warm/hott after 30 min in the Valhalla V12tt hades. After high temp resistant header wrap is applied you could take the intake off bare handed.

Size does matter lol.. 4.5" silicone vs 3" SS

BlownV8

You had the Speedriven spider intakes at one time, correct? To me, your current set-up looks like you will produce more power with less heat soak in actual driving conditions with the hood closed. Is that why you went this direction?

ttboost

Thanks for your input Sean. I hadn't realized that all of this had been tried, which, in retrospect is kind of stupid, considering how long these things have been around. I am going the modified stock air box route first. I bought 2 spare air boxes and cut the floor out, I am them just sticking an air filter on the end. The end of the air filter is pretty much right at the intake inlet. I may take my spare intake hoses and cut them at a 45 to direct inlet air at the bottom of the filter too. I can post pictures if necessary, but I figure everyone gets it and it is old news...

kamilclk430

Im all for CAI but did anyone ever take the time to measure the air temps under te hood when car is moving at 30+ mph? Having the car on the dyno with a 10-15mph home depot fan will make you dyno the same if not worse with the Speedriven Scorpion Intakes. Now dynoying the car with air being brought in at 30+ mph will show gains. The speedriven intakes have 2 filters on each side when the air gets under the hood with the correct speed its sucking it in much better than a single filter up front and it has less travel when it hits the motor, with the car moving thats gonna be in fact better than intakes up front. I will tes te temps myself if anyone wants to argue this point. My car with 15 mph temps under the hood and what the intakes are sucking in and my car at 30+ mph. I can bet that those temps being sucked through those filters at higher speeds will be measuring close to outside temps at current time.

Benz-O-Rama

Do you log IAT? If so, can you please Post your log? I'm interested in seeing cruise IAT vs ambient. If you have a 1/4 mile (or full 3rd gear pull) that'd be great too. Those IATs will tell a big part of the story.

Benz-O-Rama

Good info in here. Have you logged IAT yet? What are you seeing in normal 30-60mph cruising, over ambient.

kamilclk430

As soon as my car is running I will post IATs. I will record them at all speeds and even down the track. I will also try to get to a dyno to record them there with the hood shut and fan blowing at my car.

Do you have the intakes on your car? I would like for someone to record the CAI IATs vs mine. If I can get a local guy it would be perfect to see these logs at same outside temps.

Benz-O-Rama

I'm running a stock box, so I can log IAT's and get a baseline. I know exactly what they should be above ambient, since I've logged it a bunch. That's why I'm curious to see what yours are.

Be interesting to see OEM vs Speedriven for:

Traffic idling
Normal cruising
1/4 mile