Go Back   MBWorld.org Forums > Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles > E55 AMG, E63 AMG (W210, W211, W212) > W211 AMG
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63

Welcome to MBWorld.org!
Welcome to MBWorld,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-26-2006, 12:43 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
xxaarraa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Drives: Multiple
Is "AMG" really hand crafted?

I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built.

I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

xxaarraa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:13 AM   #2
Out Of Control!!
 
Can Drive 55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,243
Drives: 2005 E55
The engine, yes.
__________________
Can Drive 55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:19 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
xxaarraa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Drives: Multiple
Quote:
Originally Posted by can drive 55 View Post
The engine, yes.
So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.
xxaarraa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:26 AM   #4
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
chiromikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,848
Drives: '03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
...I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
i hardly think that's the case and i don't recall every meeting an amg owner in person or on this board that pretended it was.
chiromikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:28 AM   #5
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
chiromikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,848
Drives: '03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.
how literal are you going to define the term "hand built"? it's not like they're mining the ore or cnc'ing parts out of thin air...they're assembling motors.
chiromikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:29 AM   #6
Almost a Member!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 54
20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per year per worker.

That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
__________________
Wayne
- 06 Designo Graphite E55 : Stock
- 03 BMW 325i
- 06 350Z - Project Fun Car
- 92 Nissan Silvia aiming for 750rwhp

Last edited by Insigno E55; 11-26-2006 at 05:58 AM.
Insigno E55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:30 AM   #7
Out Of Control!!
 
Can Drive 55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,243
Drives: 2005 E55
20,000 / 50 = 400
They build one or more a day per person. It could happen. Just have faith in the force.
__________________
Can Drive 55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:30 AM   #8
Super Member
 
L8Apex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 690
Drives: 05E55
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.
Each tech is capable of producing an avg of 3-4 motors a day. 4x50=200 motors a day. So, in 100 days they could fill the 20,000 quota and can still take a 200 day holiday.
__________________
REMEMBERING PIPES
L8Apex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:33 AM   #9
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
chiromikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,848
Drives: '03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insigno E55 View Post
20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per month per worker.

That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.
i think i remember reading they're building 100 motors per day. so that's 1 before lunch, one after lunch for each tech for only 200 out of 365 days. it doesn't sound so far fetched in that light.

*edit* from the amg private lounge:

"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."

Last edited by chiromikey; 11-26-2006 at 01:41 AM.
chiromikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 02:16 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
xxaarraa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Drives: Multiple
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiromikey View Post
i think i remember reading they're building 100 motors per day. so that's 1 before lunch, one after lunch for each tech for only 200 out of 365 days. it doesn't sound so far fetched in that light.

*edit* from the amg private lounge:

"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."
You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
xxaarraa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 02:17 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 76
Drives: merc
There's an interesting video on Mercedes-Amg.com on this subject.

Goto Engine Room- Assembly-Guided Tour
rodngun762 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 03:20 AM   #12
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 1,705
Drives: '03 G500, '13 G63, '14 GL63
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
How do you equate a build time of 4 hours with not equating to "craftsmanship"??
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.
__________________
MB stable:
'03 G500
'13 G63
'14 GL63
medici78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 11:00 AM   #13
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Chucky300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,161
Drives: 2014 S550
www.facebook.com/thebradleyscott
Quote:
Originally Posted by medici78 View Post
How do you equate a build time of 4 hours with not equating to "craftsmanship"??
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.
lol I was doing all the math 20,000 / 50 = 400 engines and then read the posts and saw everyone already covered that. heh. Well - a) are we sure AMG only has 50 ppl building? The Number goes down to 333 engines per person per year if there are 60 workers. 285 with 70 workers.... so anyways - you get my point.
__________________
http://mbworld.org/forums/signaturepics/sigpic37142_2.gif
Chucky300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 11:09 AM   #14
Super Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ramsey, NJ
Posts: 570
Drives: 2007 M5, 2004 X3 3.0i
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Apex View Post
Each tech is capable of producing an avg of 3-4 motors a day. 4x50=200 motors a day. So, in 100 days they could fill the 20,000 quota and can still take a 200 day holiday.
It's a good thing they dont try producing at that rate, or I think we'd all be constantly in the shop lol.
__________________
'05 E55 AMG, Flint Grey/Charcoal - Gone!
'07 M5, Black/Black 6Speed
'04 X3 3.0i
ThemisN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 11:11 AM   #15
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
2MANYCARS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island & Hong Kong
Posts: 1,256
Drives: C's, E, ML, CLK, SLK, M's, EVO, GT-R, GT3, & B7.
Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear said that AMG doesn't only hand build engines for Mercedes, but also Pagani. Given the right tools and all the needed parts of an engine, it's very possible. All they need to do is to put the engine together, and let the assisting machine do the checking and testing, then they put their own plague on top of it.
2MANYCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 11:22 AM   #16
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
chiromikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,848
Drives: '03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.
no, i don't think i did make your point as medici78 summed it up pretty well.

your argument is like saying rolex isn't hand assembled because a patek is better. although craftsmanship is probably implied and there are different levels of craftsmanship, craftsmanship is not the claim here...it's assembly.
chiromikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 11:35 AM   #17
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,006
Drives: '07 Porsche 997TT
As others have stated - hand assembled, not hand built. Big difference.
__________________


Chris

'07 Porsche 997TT Slate/black, Protomotive tune, TPC Racing Stage 3 suspension, IC's, and modified turbo's

Gone but not forgotten - '04 E55 AMG, K3, Brilliant Silver
cte430 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 12:07 PM   #18
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
sack5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 1,829
Drives: 2014 ML63
This is how they are built according to this article:

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=72472&pg=1

..."in a large room pleasantly bathed in sunlight, around thirty employees are working on AMG V8s, all proudly mounted on special lifts. Following the "one man, one engine" motto, each highly qualified mechanic is responsible for the entire assembly of his or her own engine -- from the positioning of the crankshaft to the very first oil filling. A total of nearly 500 components are installed by these expert hands."........

Interesting article, sounds like craftmanship...
sack5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 12:18 PM   #19
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
Posts: 7,087
Drives: 2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
I think Benz pushes more "one man one engine" than "hand made".

These guys really take pride in their work and it shows. Ya just can't argue.....these motors are simpletons in design, but SOLID as a rock.

I may have missed one, but in my years on the forum, have not had heard of one AMG motor throwing a rod or toasting a piston etc. We've had some supercharger problems and such, but those AMG guts just keep on delivering.

There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.
Jakpro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 01:31 PM   #20
Out Of Control!!
 
jangy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,394
Drives: C350
Send a message via AIM to jangy Send a message via Yahoo to jangy
My hand assembled engine KICKS BUTT!!
__________________
SDCrew
Jangy@yahoo.com
jangy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 02:00 PM   #21
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
FLYNAVY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 1,232
Drives: '90 e30 M3 (s52), '99 C43 AMG, '91 190e 5.6 (swap)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built.

I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
who cares what AMG owners are walking around thinking? A lot of them don't know the first thing about their cars at all and bought them because it was the most expensive "exclusive" Mercedes on the lot. Yes, a lot of the process is automated, but it is still pretty rare these days to have an engine assembled by hand. Considering most of the AMG line is nearly identical (mechanically) it should not be hard to get familiar enough with the process to churn out a motor in less than 4 hours. If you are doing hundreds/year and have been making motors for years, I don't see the problem. I mean, its not like AMG pulls random guys from the street to make their motors....you need years of industry experience before you get out on the assembly floor. Some of the more specialized motors (i.e SLR, Pagani, etc) certainly take more time. I'm sure in the "good old days" when AMG motors were specially ordered for individual customers the assembly took longer. But considering most of AMG's work is more mainstream now, I see no reason why they couldn't have an efficient process by now. After all, Germans were (primarily) hand-building hundreds of motors per day during WWII, and (as I have heard anyways) when inspected by allied forces following VE day they were astounded by how good the craftsmanship was, and how close tolerances were on these engines. Their motors were reportedly FAR superior to anything manufactured in the US or UK. And this was nearly 70 years ago! Just food for thought....

Last edited by FLYNAVY; 11-26-2006 at 02:03 PM.
FLYNAVY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2006, 05:33 PM   #22
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,851
Drives: CLK500/Range Rover HSE/E55 AMG/Bmw 328Xi coupe/BMW 4.8x/Bmw 335i/GS350/Audi S5/E350
Send a message via AIM to x-tian-230k
If you have visited the AMG plant you will understand the process.... Its an amazing facility. They guys who build our 55 engines are different than the guys who built the V12/SLR engines. DUring the tour they stated each person can built ALMOST 2 engines a day....
__________________
02-Ducati 748 - SOLD
02-MV Agusta F4 750 - SOLD
03-CLK500 - SOLD
04-E55 - SOLD
07-BMW 328xi Coupe - SOLD
07-BMW 335i sedan - SOLD
08-BMW X5 4.8is - SOLD
08-Audi S5 - SOLD
09-BMW 135 Vert - SOLD
10-E350 - Current
11-BMW 550i - Current
x-tian-230k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 12:12 PM   #23
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
E55 KEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Washington D.C.
Posts: 4,232
Drives: 2002 E55 AMG
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
...where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year?...

I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.
You have a W210 E55 and at that time they modified the entire car. However, they were not building 20k engines a year prior to 2003 and the introduction of the Supercharger. They only built 12,000 W210 E55's from 1998 to 2002 for worldwide sale. Only about 2,000 W210 E55's were sold in the US.
__________________

E55 KEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 12:23 PM   #24
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakpro1 View Post

There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.
Sorry for the OT....but do you know where I can find this video?
zdkdeeier493 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 12:29 PM   #25
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,233
Drives: 2010 E550 Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky300 View Post
lol I was doing all the math 20,000 / 50 = 400 engines and then read the posts and saw everyone already covered that. heh. Well - a) are we sure AMG only has 50 ppl building? The Number goes down to 333 engines per person per year if there are 60 workers. 285 with 70 workers.... so anyways - you get my point.
I think its 50. I recently saw an ad for the E63 and it said something like "only 50 people are qualified to build our engines blah blah" I will see if I can find the ad.

Last edited by pmb600; 11-28-2006 at 12:30 PM. Reason: typo
pmb600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2006, 12:29 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
amg, build, built, clarkson, day, engines, everyday, gear, hand, happen, jeremy, makes, mercedes, nameplate, top



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:14 AM.


Copyright 2001-2012 InternetBrands, Inc. / MBWorld.org. All Rights Reserved.
Everyone's Personal Details

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2