Is "AMG" really hand crafted?

[xxaarraa]

I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built. I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.

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[Can Drive 55]

The engine, yes.

[xxaarraa]

Originally Posted by can drive 55

The engine, yes.

So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.

[chiromikey]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

...I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.

i hardly think that's the case and i don't recall every meeting an amg owner in person or on this board that pretended it was.

[chiromikey]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.

how literal are you going to define the term "hand built"? it's not like they're mining the ore or cnc'ing parts out of thin air...they're assembling motors.

[Insigno E55]

20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per year per worker.

That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.

[Can Drive 55]

20,000 / 50 = 400
They build one or more a day per person. It could happen. Just have faith in the force.

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

So, 20,000 engines are hand crafted by only 50 people every year? Thats a little hard to believe unless they are slave workers.

Each tech is capable of producing an avg of 3-4 motors a day. 4x50=200 motors a day. So, in 100 days they could fill the 20,000 quota and can still take a 200 day holiday.

[chiromikey]

Originally Posted by Insigno E55

20,000 engines with 50 workers, so pumping out average of 400 engines per month per worker.

That is quite an amount of engine to build everyday, though I think although it's hand built more than 50% it's assisted by machine so that it cuts down alot of human tooling time. So it's possible if this is the case. But still that is alot of engine to build per day.

i think i remember reading they're building 100 motors per day. so that's 1 before lunch, one after lunch for each tech for only 200 out of 365 days. it doesn't sound so far fetched in that light.

*edit* from the amg private lounge:

"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."

[xxaarraa]

Originally Posted by chiromikey

i think i remember reading they're building 100 motors per day. so that's 1 before lunch, one after lunch for each tech for only 200 out of 365 days. it doesn't sound so far fetched in that light.

*edit* from the amg private lounge:

"Working in a single-shift operation, approximately 100 AMG engines are built in the engine factory per day for installation in a variety of models."

You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.

[rodngun762]

There's an interesting video on Mercedes-Amg.com on this subject.

Goto Engine Room- Assembly-Guided Tour

[medici78]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.

How do you equate a build time of 4 hours with not equating to "craftsmanship"??
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.

[Chucky300]

Originally Posted by medici78

How do you equate a build time of 4 hours with not equating to "craftsmanship"??
So you want them to take several months to build the engine in order to advertise as "hand crafted"? I guess you want AMG to use the same schedules and techniques as your neighborhood machine shop. Sorry, but your post reeks of ignorance. Sounds like your opinion of true craftsmanship also equals gross inefficiency.
Of course, they are going to have machine assistance. Do you expect the builder to pick up all heavy pieces by themselves??? Watch the video on the amg site and it gives a good insight to how "machine assisted" the process really is. It's not like the machines are the ones doing the actual assembly, they simply just make life a little easier so the builders don't have to waste time positioning tools and lifting blocks, heads, etc. Machine assistance is not the same as an assembly line if one person alone is building the engine with assistance from machines.

lol I was doing all the math 20,000 / 50 = 400 engines and then read the posts and saw everyone already covered that. heh. Well - a) are we sure AMG only has 50 ppl building? The Number goes down to 333 engines per person per year if there are 60 workers. 285 with 70 workers.... so anyways - you get my point.

[ThemisN]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

Each tech is capable of producing an avg of 3-4 motors a day. 4x50=200 motors a day. So, in 100 days they could fill the 20,000 quota and can still take a 200 day holiday.

It's a good thing they dont try producing at that rate, or I think we'd all be constantly in the shop lol.

[2MANYCARS]

Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear said that AMG doesn't only hand build engines for Mercedes, but also Pagani. Given the right tools and all the needed parts of an engine, it's very possible. All they need to do is to put the engine together, and let the assisting machine do the checking and testing, then they put their own plague on top of it.

[chiromikey]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

You made my point for me. Thank you. An engine before lunch is an engine built in 4 hours. That doesnt equate to craftsmanship. The majority of the work is done in an assembly line or is machine assisted and it should not be advertised as hand crafted.

The Honda NSX engine was hand crafted. A Rolls engine is hand crafted.

no, i don't think i did make your point as medici78 summed it up pretty well.

your argument is like saying rolex isn't hand assembled because a patek is better. although craftsmanship is probably implied and there are different levels of craftsmanship, craftsmanship is not the claim here...it's assembly.

[cte430]

As others have stated - hand assembled, not hand built. Big difference.

[sack5000]

This is how they are built according to this article:

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=72472&pg=1

..."in a large room pleasantly bathed in sunlight, around thirty employees are working on AMG V8s, all proudly mounted on special lifts. Following the "one man, one engine" motto, each highly qualified mechanic is responsible for the entire assembly of his or her own engine -- from the positioning of the crankshaft to the very first oil filling. A total of nearly 500 components are installed by these expert hands."........

Interesting article, sounds like craftmanship...

[Jakpro1]

I think Benz pushes more "one man one engine" than "hand made".

These guys really take pride in their work and it shows. Ya just can't argue.....these motors are simpletons in design, but SOLID as a rock.

I may have missed one, but in my years on the forum, have not had heard of one AMG motor throwing a rod or toasting a piston etc. We've had some supercharger problems and such, but those AMG guts just keep on delivering.

There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.

[jangy]

My hand assembled engine KICKS BUTT!!

[FLYNAVY]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

I mean really? The name plate has been rather abused in recent years with nearly every MB line getting an AMG version including the R series minivan. Besides, the "AMG package" is available for non AMG cars which is a no-no in my opinion. Oh, there is that old Top Gear episode where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year? Unless it means only part of the engine is hand built.

I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.

who cares what AMG owners are walking around thinking? A lot of them don't know the first thing about their cars at all and bought them because it was the most expensive "exclusive" Mercedes on the lot. Yes, a lot of the process is automated, but it is still pretty rare these days to have an engine assembled by hand. Considering most of the AMG line is nearly identical (mechanically) it should not be hard to get familiar enough with the process to churn out a motor in less than 4 hours. If you are doing hundreds/year and have been making motors for years, I don't see the problem. I mean, its not like AMG pulls random guys from the street to make their motors....you need years of industry experience before you get out on the assembly floor. Some of the more specialized motors (i.e SLR, Pagani, etc) certainly take more time. I'm sure in the "good old days" when AMG motors were specially ordered for individual customers the assembly took longer. But considering most of AMG's work is more mainstream now, I see no reason why they couldn't have an efficient process by now. After all, Germans were (primarily) hand-building hundreds of motors per day during WWII, and (as I have heard anyways) when inspected by allied forces following VE day they were astounded by how good the craftsmanship was, and how close tolerances were on these engines. Their motors were reportedly FAR superior to anything manufactured in the US or UK. And this was nearly 70 years ago! Just food for thought....

[x-tian-230k]

If you have visited the AMG plant you will understand the process.... Its an amazing facility. They guys who build our 55 engines are different than the guys who built the V12/SLR engines. DUring the tour they stated each person can built ALMOST 2 engines a day....

[E55 KEV]

Originally Posted by xxaarraa

...where they point out that AMG makes closed to 20,000 engines a year including the ones they sell to Pagani for the Zonda. If only 50 people in the world are qualified to build AMG engines, how the **** can they build 20,000 a year?...

I have a W210 E55 and love it to bits, so dont get me wrong. But I just dont like the idea of AMG owners walking around thinking they drive a hand crafted Rolls or something.

You have a W210 E55 and at that time they modified the entire car. However, they were not building 20k engines a year prior to 2003 and the introduction of the Supercharger. They only built 12,000 W210 E55's from 1998 to 2002 for worldwide sale. Only about 2,000 W210 E55's were sold in the US.

[zdkdeeier493]

Originally Posted by Jakpro1

There was the kid who made the homemade NOS system and toasted his E55 and that video is all over the net, but again, it was a homemade NOS setup.

Sorry for the OT....but do you know where I can find this video?

[pmb600]

Originally Posted by Chucky300

lol I was doing all the math 20,000 / 50 = 400 engines and then read the posts and saw everyone already covered that. heh. Well - a) are we sure AMG only has 50 ppl building? The Number goes down to 333 engines per person per year if there are 60 workers. 285 with 70 workers.... so anyways - you get my point.

I think its 50. I recently saw an ad for the E63 and it said something like "only 50 people are qualified to build our engines blah blah" I will see if I can find the ad.