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Anecdotally in the past with all the 200-300k mile cars it turns out you can pretty much use anything on a 190E and it won't care. Factually it's 5w40 or 0w40 European formula, but I've seen pretty much everything cycled through these mainly a crapload of 5w40 Rotella, even conventional 5w30 oil. 5w40 European with a 229.5 approval is the correct answer. The 10w is a bit slower of a start but in CA it wont' matter, the benefits of 0w40 and 5w40 are not even felt until below 0F. You could have used the 2.3L as a truck engine back in the day and it wouldn't have minded that job one bit. Strong understressed engine, good lubrication properties, sweet gem to maintain.
Hilariously MB doesn't even know, because they used everything and they also changed the filter every OTHER oil change around this time lol.
I'm neither an engineer, nor a mechanic, but...
I've used everything from Liqui Moly to Delo to Mobil1 to private label SuperTech (Wal-Mart), and even synthetic/synthetic blend. I live in So Cal, desert area and the temps are for the most part 75+ except for summer when it goes to 100+. The things I do is use a good quality filter (usually Hengst or Mann), ALWAYS utilize the SAE weight grades (because of my climate I won't run anything less than 10W-40), and I always do my oil changes like clockwork, period. Usually every 7500 - 8000 miles, sometimes a bit sooner. I'm due for my next change in another couple hundred miles and I already 6.5 qts of SuperTech 10W-40 synthetic blend on standby. Currently I have Quaker State 20W-50. Also, as a side note, MB does not appear to make a distinction between oil types for their diesel and gas models, only that certain guidelines are followed for the ambient temperature ratings.
My 190E owners manual makes no mention of diesel engines. You also shouldn't be constantly changing the brand of oil you're using. Each company has its own additives and mixing them isn't good. You should stick with 1 brand. That's what my engineer father always taught me and it's held me in good stead.
Anecdotally in the past with all the 200-300k mile cars it turns out you can pretty much use anything on a 190E and it won't care. Factually it's 5w40 or 0w40 European formula, but I've seen pretty much everything cycled through these mainly a crapload of 5w40 Rotella, even conventional 5w30 oil. 5w40 European with a 229.5 approval is the correct answer. The 10w is a bit slower of a start but in CA it wont' matter, the benefits of 0w40 and 5w40 are not even felt until below 0F. You could have used the 2.3L as a truck engine back in the day and it wouldn't have minded that job one bit. Strong understressed engine, good lubrication properties, sweet gem to maintain.
Hilariously MB doesn't even know, because they used everything and they also changed the filter every OTHER oil change around this time lol.
My 190E owners manual very clearly says 10W-40. My engineer father who was manager of aviation technical service world wide for Mobil always taught me to stick with the same brand of oil because each company has its own additives and its not good to mix them. Same with gasoline. My engineer father also taught me that it's a waste of money to use synthetic in a car that didn't start out with synthetic when it was brand new. Much of the damaging wear that most engines suffer is in the early mileages and that's when the synthetic oil is the best option because it best protects against that damaging wear. When the car already has many thousands of miles on it, the most damaging engine wear has already taken place. I certainly agree with you about the durability of the engine. However, top notch maintenance will help that engine to be even more durable.
My 190E owners manual makes no mention of diesel engines. You also shouldn't be constantly changing the brand of oil you're using. Each company has its own additives and mixing them isn't good. You should stick with 1 brand. That's what my engineer father always taught me and it's held me in good stead.
Your owners manual won't have it, you need to look at the factory service manual. I posted a photo of what was recommended by Mercedes and it does not differentiate between gas or diesel engines when it comes to oil, nor do they state that you should stick with a particular brand, but they list several brands that you can use. I know some people have brands that they will use without fail, so whatever works. In my case, I like to go with a good quality product and what makes sense to me at the given time, eg, using a heavier weight oil when temps are extremely high, regardless of brand. As stated before, Mercedes seems to put a great deal of emphasis on using the appropriate oil viscosity for the ambient temperature. Also, I'm curious as to where your owner manual states that you should only use 10W-40. What 190E do you have?
Your owners manual won't have it, you need to look at the factory service manual. I posted a photo of what was recommended by Mercedes and it does not differentiate between gas or diesel engines when it comes to oil, nor do they state that you should stick with a particular brand, but they list several brands that you can use. I know some people have brands that they will use without fail, so whatever works. In my case, I like to go with a good quality product and what makes sense to me at the given time, eg, using a heavier weight oil when temps are extremely high, regardless of brand. As stated before, Mercedes seems to put a great deal of emphasis on using the appropriate oil viscosity for the ambient temperature. Also, I'm curious as to where your owner manual states that you should only use 10W-40. What 190E do you have?
Considering that my engineer father with German ancestry was a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, was world-wide manager of aviation technical service for Mobil and knew exactly how every aviation and automotive oil was formulated, I'll continue to stick with his advise. It continues to hold my cars in good stead.
My old 1954 Dodge Power Wagon manual recommends straight 30 non detergent oil and oil changes every 1000 miles but it does fine being lubricated with modern 10W30. Oil recommendations printed in the 30+ year old 190E owners manuals don't take into account improvements made in oil formulation since they were published.
My old 1954 Dodge Power Wagon manual recommends straight 30 non detergent oil and oil changes every 1000 miles but it does fine being lubricated with modern 10W30. Oil recommendations printed in the 30+ year old 190E owners manuals don't take into account improvements made in oil formulation since they were published.
Improvements in oil formulation are more appropriate for far more recent and far more modern cars that are dealing with engine clearances, etc that aren't found with the 190E.
I am an engineer and my father was a medical doctor. I would not attempt to give people any medical advice, nor will I attempt to give specific oil advice as it is not my area of expertise.
Generally speaking, in the engineering diciplone, when applicable standards exist you adhere to them. If your item EOL and no one is being paid to continue to analyze and test specific products that meet new standards against the original design under controlled circumstances, you take an educated guess based on your understanding, professional experience and expertise.
I can almost guarantee that no one is testing m103 or m102 engines against modern oils under controlled circumstances these days. You can't buy the oil formulations that existed when these engines were developed so using oils that meet standards that supersede the original standards many times over is our only option.
Going by the owners manual is probably a good place to start but not the only "right" answer at this point in time.
Similarly, advice from someone who was an expert at a point in time does not necessarily carry forward decades into the future as the parameters have changed. It may, however, also be a good place to start.
Greg
Last edited by RA102424; Oct 18, 2024 at 11:45 PM.
Similarly, advice from someone who was an expert at a point in time does not necessarily carry forward decades into the future as the parameters have changed. It may, however, also be a good place to start.
Indeed -- back in the 60's - 70's experts certified the use of aluminum branch circuit wiring in residential housing. It seemed like a really good idea until it turned out not to be.
I am an engineer and my father was a medical doctor. I would not attempt to give people any medical advice, nor will I attempt to give specific oil advice as it is not my area of expertise.
Generally speaking, in the engineering diciplone, when applicable standards exist you adhere to them. If your item EOL and no one is being paid to continue to analyze and test specific products that meet new standards against the original design under controlled circumstances, you take an educated guess based on your understanding, professional experience and expertise.
I can almost guarantee that no one is testing m103 or m102 engines against modern oils under controlled circumstances these days. You can't buy the oil formulations that existed when these engines were developed so using oils that meet standards that supersede the original standards many times over is our only option.
Going by the owners manual is probably a good place to start but not the only "right" answer at this point in time.
Similarly, advice from someone who was an expert at a point in time does not necessarily carry forward decades into the future as the parameters have changed. It may, however, also be a good place to start.
Greg
My engineer father was manager of Aviation Technical Service world-wide for Mobil. It was part of his job to know how every aviation and automotive oil was formulated. He also knew the man who originally developed Mobil 1. My engineer father never used a diesel oil or any of our gas powered cars. I haven't looked at my W201 owner's manual for a while but if I remember correctly, diesel oil was not recommended for gas powered cars.
Indeed -- back in the 60's - 70's experts certified the use of aluminum branch circuit wiring in residential housing. It seemed like a really good idea until it turned out not to be.
FYI, my engineer father was manager of Aviation Technical Service world-wide for Mobil. It was part of his job to know how every aviation and automotive oil was formulated. He also knew the man who originally developed Mobil1. My engineer father was an expert in both aviation and automotive oils.
Some diesel oils meet MB spec. Lots have changed in the lubrication world since the 1980's. The diesels engine oils have a higher TBN number (Total Base Number) to neutralize sulfuric acid. I don't think that is as important today because in the US you can only buy Ultra low sulfur fuel. Also, diesel oils have a greater detergent package that would be advantageous in gas engines that have been abused with extended oil changes. You can't be too clean when it comes to hydraulic lifters.
Anyways, the reason I asked my question is for the weight of the oil. Im in Florida. My 190e 2.6 new to me has 255K miles. I get that lifter taping on start up. So, I'm between, 10w-40, 5w-40, 15w-40.
All non synthetic.
Here's hoping you weren't negatively impacted by the recent hurricanes. I was living in Miami when hurricane Andrew hit. I was cured. Never again. I no longer live in Florida. As for your lifter tapping, a little bit of it is normal. That's just how the W201 engines sound. You just don't want the lifter tapping to get out of hand. There are diesel oils that meet MB spec for diesel engines. My engineer father was manager of Aviation technical service for Mobil. It was part of his job to know how every aviation and automotive oil was formulated. He never used diesel oil in any of our gas powered cars, As for oil weight for your car, the farther south you go in Florida, the hotter it is. I would base your oil selection on what kind of temperatures your car is in most of the time. I will also say that the W201 doesn't have engine clearances that are anywhere near as tight as the clearances for modern MB engines as an additional cavate. .Heat wise in Florida, if you're farther south, go with the lighter weight oil than what you would use if you're farther north in Florida. BTW, my engineer father also knew how every aviation and automotive fuel was formulated. Since MB requires premium gas for our W201s, my engineer father taught me that premium gas has more detergents in it which better works to keep down engine deposits in cars that require premium.. The W201 doesn't have engine clearances that are anywhere near as tight as the clearances for modern MB engines.
My engineer father was manager of Aviation Technical Service world-wide for Mobil. It was part of his job to know how every aviation and automotive oil was formulated. He also knew the man who originally developed Mobil 1. My engineer father never used a diesel oil or any of our gas powered cars. I haven't looked at my W201 owner's manual for a while but if I remember correctly, diesel oil was not recommended for gas powered cars.
If your father were posting here I would absolutely pay attention to what he had to say but your second hand information that appears to be obsolete. Please stop repeating in every post!
If your father were posting here I would absolutely pay attention to what he had to say but your second hand information that appears to be obsolete. Please stop repeating in every post!
Greg
I was looking for my other post on this thread but realize this trash has spread to multiple threads.
Responded in another thread about this persons “stolen valor” of his engineer father. It’s the most obnoxious posting strategy I may have ever seen on the internet. That they have repeated it so many times as if anyone cares likely means that engineer was a bit to close to the fumes. Besides they’re not believing in new technology and evolution, it’s as if they think their dad existed in a vacuum. There’s a saying about only knowing what the teacher teaches and it’s well proven by this mentality.
plenty of great threads on oil around here and lots of great info from Lakeland Speed to make all of us oil users educated In our modern choices.
off to go chat on the rotary phone while painting with lead paint in my asbestos covered room after using chlorheptane on my lawn, because that’s what my father suggests because after all, he stayed at a holiday inn express last night.
Last edited by Baltistyle; Oct 21, 2024 at 05:44 AM.
I feel bad for him. Obviously he holds his father in high regard, rightly so, but doesn't understand the field well enough himself to seek new and additional information. On the other hand if this is a juvenile strategy to annoy folks with repetitive word salad then I guess we fell for it.
Please people lets keep the posts civil on the forum. It is understandable that 190E fan has such a high regard for her father and his advice to her has resulted in her 190E operating well for 3 decades and as I recall in her posts that it is in concours condition. We are not discussing modern GDI engines here so likely her advice about using Mobil 1 even in the original formula in a durable M103 engine is not a bad choice . My 190E has served me well for 34 years using whatever oil is on sale in a variety of grades so my opinion obviously differs but the result has been the same. My car is not a garage queen and I drive it in winters where the temperature on several occasions dipped to -50C and it burns very little oil between changes. It is only in the past two winters that I have used sythetic oil and only because I got a great deal otherwise it would be dino oil in 5w20 and 15W40 in summer and sometimes diesel spec.. I think there is too much concern being expressed about these engines.
Opinions on which automobile oils is best is like belly buttons in that every one has one and 190E's choice is obviously Mobil 1 based upon her fathers career. That's her choice.
For many years since I was about 16 I hunted moose with a World War 1 era Lee-Enfield Mark 1 No. 3 .303 caliber rifle based on my grandfather's advice who served in the trench's at Ypres and the Somme in the Canadian Army from 1914-1916. It certainly did serve me well in killing moose so he was right also!
At this year's family Thanksgiving dinner, I will try to steer the conversation toward the merits of 5W-30 synthetic oil, because politics will clearly be off limits!
If your father were posting here I would absolutely pay attention to what he had to say but your second hand information that appears to be obsolete. Please stop repeating in every post!
Greg
You're disrespect for my engineer father's engineering expertise that you'll never have is unacceptable. I consider myself very fortunate to have learned from a genuine expert. When you have my engineer father's aviation/automotive engineering resume, I'll be happy to talk with you at that time.
This thread has reached the point where I am happy to disengage from the discussion. No one was insulting anyone's father, their career or cabilities, nor was I dismissing the advise in the time it was given. Anecdotal accounts are probably good enough for most folks to make a decision anyway.
This thread has reached the point where I am happy to disengage from the discussion. No one was insulting anyone's father, their career or cabilities, nor was I dismissing the advise in the time it was given. Anecdotal accounts are probably good enough for most folks to make a decision anyway.
Greg
I agree that this thread needs to end but you once again attacked my father's aviation/automotive engineering resume which includes extensive, detailed work experience knowledge of how both aviation and automotive engine oils are formulated. In addition, my engineer father was a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers which sets the industry standards for all things automotive including engine oils You have no such aviation/automotive engineering work experience and you're not a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers. It will never be possible that you know more about how automotive engine oils are formulated because you have no such experience. It's like saying people who never went to medical school know more about medicine than the doctors. Again, that's not possible. I continue to find your attacks on my engineer father's extensive engineering resume offensive and I have every right to call out your lack of automotive engineering work experience.. Again, you have no such aviation/automotive engineering resume so you'll never know more about this issue than my engineer father did. It's time for you to stop these disrespectful attacks and move on.
I am trying my best to consider the possibility that this thread is even real. If this thread was trolling, it would be one of the best trolling threads I have ever come across. I try not to feed the trolls, and I consider myself to be very talented at not feeding the trolls. But in this case, I may have fallen to the temptation.
Last edited by MB2timer; Oct 24, 2024 at 01:23 PM.
Reason: +t
I don't know what to make of this either. So I tried a different approach in my last post.
Generally, I don't like foruns or social media and don't participate. I've asked the forum moderator to delete my account, I don't want to waste any more time here. There are better forums out there with fewer trolls or folks that have issues and feel the need to disrupt what could be useful exchanges for no good reason.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
