jl88

Being nice today, even though i've lost a lot of affinity for MBworld.org.

Anyways, my usual caveat. Auction prices do not reflect whether or not the title is branded, closing fees, or costs to recondition the car for retail sale. It should be used as a baseline for buying or selling.

Btw I have 2006 CLS55. The prices make me want to suck on the business end of a shotgun heh. It's such a great car.

2006 CLS55
10/21/08 FAAO Regular $44,000 27,030 Above BLACK 8CY A Yes
10/22/08 W PALM Lease $40,500 32,775 Avg IRI SIL 8G A Yes
10/23/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $41,000 39,222 Avg IRI SIL 8G A Yes
10/23/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $40,750 35,016 Avg OBS BLK 8G A Yes
10/28/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $32,500 28,263 Below IRI SIL 8G A No
10/30/08 MANHEIM Regular $44,000 24,390 Above BLACK 8G A Yes
10/30/08 MANHEIM Lease $40,250 32,401 Avg IRI SIL 8G T Yes
11/05/08 MILWAUKE Lease $34,500 47,503 Below CPR BLU 8G A Yes
11/06/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $49,250 11,296 Above PEWTER 8G A Yes
11/06/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $41,250 28,515 Avg IRI SIL 8G A Yes
11/06/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $37,500 43,381 Avg GRT GRY 8G A Yes
11/06/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $32,500 54,825 Below IRI SIL 8G A Yes
11/11/08 FAAO Lease $41,200 37,073 Avg BLACK 8G A Yes
11/12/08 ATLANTA Lease $34,500 52,502 Below IRI SIL 8G A Yes
11/12/08 ALOHA Lease $41,500 24,758 Avg IRI SIL 8G A Yes

2007 CLS63
09/30/08 DFW Lease $54,000 27,933 Above IRI SIL 8G A Yes
10/09/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $51,500 27,941 Avg BLACK 8G A Yes
10/15/08 NADE Regular $47,300 38,820 Avg WHT 8G Yes
10/16/08 MANHEIM Regular $49,900 38,946 Avg WHITE 8G A Yes
10/22/08 W PALM Lease $48,000 22,615 Avg OBS BLK 8G A Yes
11/04/08 BIG H Regular $55,050 8,056 Above Silver NON N Yes

2008 CLS63
04/16/08 SAN ANTO Regular $78,200 4,643 Avg NONE NON N Yes
06/25/08 MILWAUKE Factory $86,750 999 Above FLT GRY 8CY A Yes
06/26/08 W PALM Factory $72,250 7,529 Avg BLACK 8CY A Yes
06/26/08 MANHEIM Regular $76,000 6,192 Avg BLACK 8G A Yes
07/31/08 RIVRSIDE Lease $73,000 12,461 Avg BLACK 8G T Yes
08/20/08 CEN FLA Lease $68,000 11,016 Below BLACK 8G A Yes

Don't message me for other prices.

NJBoy115

Thats insane

jl88

If I can recall correctly, I picked up my 2006 CLS55 in April/May of 2007 for $70k.

I was actually bidding on a IWC CLS55 and I would have been able to get it for a siiiiiiiiiiiicccccccccccck price, but apparently the other guy knew it was an IWC as well. I stopped bidding at 84kish I believe.

In retrospect (like everything), I lucked out.

CLS is following the w215,w216 depreciation curve, weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Kar don

wow, thats wild. id love a 55.

newguycls55

how do someone buy cars from this auction... I am looking for another exotic weekend toy....

Improviz

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=466999

********************Begin quoted article***********************
So. Here we are, November 2008. Having fun yet?

I'm not. I'll tell you why. I have cilents. Lot's of clients. Lot's of clients who WANT to buy a car from me.

So what's the probelm you ask?


The problem is this: Since sales are slow for all makes and models on the NEW car front- and incentives are coming to an end- Dealerships are NOW stuck- with their trade-ins.


The used car market is about as full as one could get. Saturated. Over-full. Obese.


Let me give you some examples:

I have 2 clients who want out of their 2007 RS4's. Both are very clean cars, both are great colors combo's and both are just great cars.


One, has about 10k more miles on it then the other; but all in all- great cars. Two months ago, the car with lower miles- was worth in the lower $50k range.


TODAY: I can't get more then high $30's to low $40's for the cars.

I have a client who has a 2008 BMW 335 Cabriolet w/ 6000 miles on it. The car listed for about $53k new- very low options. But super clean car.


I would GUESS that cars worth mid $40's all day long. Right? Sounds reasonable, right? Mabye a $1k here or there???






WRONG!

I can't get more then mid $30's on that car. WORSE. I've had dealerships from Ohio to Virginia tell me they DON'T WANT THE CAR!!

Here's another example.

2006 MB CLS55 AMG. with a original list of just over $103k.

Sept. 2008 the car was worth $55k with about 28k on it.

Nov. 2008 the car is worth just $39k trade in.

what. the. ****.


So what's happening? The market is coming to a grinding halt. Despite the incentives, or in my case- my aggressive pricing- there's no more room to go.


So, apparently it's true. "What goes around, comes around."


I figured I'd just give you guys/girls a heads up so if you're out shopping with a trade in, particularly the NON Porsche type- you're about to get a punch right on the chin.


If however, you're just doing a 'one' car transaction; by all means. Enjoy it while you can. And if you're looking for an awesome used car; you're about to enjoy some serious pricing. -But that will come further down the road. I'm sure dealerships will try and steal what trades they can, and apply the difference in revenue from that if they RETAIL it and throw it towards cars they need to move.

No one is going to be making $ like they used to...but we all knew that.


Okay, carry on with your regular programming.
********************End quoted article***********************

It seems that we were not only in a housing bubble, but an asset bubble full stop.

newguycls55

Well is important that everyone complete with asset relocation to profitable market. regardless of where the market is at, there's still a few area that's profitable.. but it involves risk...

I am looking for great deals on exotic right now, seeing pricing drop every day... I can only imagine soon, there will be bentley, lambo, ferraris everywhere due to ridicously low cost. My neighbor just recently purchase a Lambo Murci for $139k from the auction.. Amazing !!!!

AMG 17GT

The problem with these manheim auctions is that if your a dealer and your there at every auction its a hit and miss regionally and if your a private buyer you cant get in there. A few years ago I could get a pass, but the dealers have shut that down they do not want retail buyers bidding a car up.

Also manheim charges fees that are not reflected in the selling price.

So if your looking for a specific car retail its still very hard, as now you have no idea what the value really is and you dont have wholesale access.

Paul

jl88

You can almost buy any car right now through retail channels at wholesale prices. Plenty of sellers and not enough buyers.

A lot of exotics at wholesale auctions have reserve prices. The transactions never go through because the bidding isn't high enough (like Ebay reserve system).

The people that are dumping wholesale are also selling through retail channels. Buying through a retail channel will let you do research on the car, versus wholesale auctions, you only have a few hours to look at the car and can't put it on a lift.

CakeDaddy

CLS55
10/30/08 MANHEIM Regular $44,000 24,390 Above BLACK 8G A Yes

isellpower

Since the last auction date of 11-14-08 the DOW has dropped something like another 1,500 points. The next time he posts the guys who paid low 40's will be kicking themselves. When retail numbers after Christmas post greater than 10% declines is when we will see some real deals. I was offered a silver 06 CLS with 38K miles for high 30's. I lost it while trying to negotiate a little more off. It is far from an MBenz or AMG problem. Shoot, they've actually held up better than some others.

Improviz

Interesting that you were offered a CLS55 at this price. Where?

I did a nationwide search, and there aren't any with this low of miles available at this price, or close to it....

What I found in totalling up all of the CLS55s listed, nationwide, this past weekend on autotrader.com was this:

1) on both sites, the average asking price for CLS55s was within $500 of the other: $54.8K on Autotrader, and $54.3K on cars.com.

On cars.com, the breakdown was this:
avg price, all cars: $54,862
avg miles, all cars: 29.4K
tot num cars: 70
number of cars priced in range:
$65K+: 5 (average miles: 10,634)
$60-64K: 6 (average miles: 20,040)
$55-59K: 26 (avg. miles: 27,416)
$50-54K: 13 (avg miles: 30,577)
$45-49K: 11 (avg miles: 35,106)
$40-45K: 7 (avg miles: 43,822)
$37-39k: 2 (avg miles: 52,616)

On autotrader.com, the breakdown was this:
avg price, all cars: $54,325
avg miles, all cars: 30.6K
tot num cars: 79
number of cars priced in range:
$65K+: 3 (average miles: 9,735)
$60-64K: 5 (average miles: 22,164)
$55-59K: 29 (avg. miles: 26,407)
$50-54K: 19 (avg miles: 32,305)
$45-49K: 14 (avg miles: 35,116)
$40-45K: 7 (avg miles: 43,822)
$37-39K: 2 (avg miles: 52,559)

On fleabay, the cars with "buy it now" prices:
avg price: $49,216
avg mi: 33,695
$55-59K: 2 (avg. miles: 16,880)
$45-49K: 5 (avg miles: 33,900)
$40-45K: 1 (avg miles: 47,900)
$39-40K: 1 (avg miles: 52,123)

As I keep telling you: wholesale is NOT THE SAME as retail.

Btw, would you mind posting a few pics of your Viper? I'd love to see it. What color is it?

And where was it again that you saw a 2006 CLS55 retailing for $38K with 38K miles?

retardedmunk

I just sold my car on ebay for $47,200.... this is a shame...I dont need the money I just have to many cars and this car has to go....I SOLD it too cheap.....and I regret it..... because it took 3 months to find it ..in the first place...

I put about an hour a day on ebay and an hour a day into manheim.....
as a hobby .....

They only built 1468 CLS55'S ....(they built more GT-R's then our cars)...Now ONLY half of those 1468 cars were loaded the way "MOST" intelligent buyers would want their car... keyless go and comfort package a must.......now the realistic number is about 700 and change left...now take away the "UGLY" ones.... whites with tan interior, granite grey with tan interior... and all the grey interior cars....and all the ones with the Burl walnut inlay (not that I don't like the wood....JUST NOT IN THE CLS) .....and you have probably ONLY about a few hundered cars left... not many at all...making these cars rare as hell to find "the way most people would desire them" ....

INTERESTING FACT... manheim states that in November 2009 our cars will be worth GUESS WHAT??? $9000!!!!!!!!!!!!! this will never happen.... but it does state that on the bottom of the MMR on the CLS55....

Yes you see this right... Manheim's computer bases on current depreciation.... ours car should be going through auction for $9k by NOV. 2009
Now a camparison... well a Lexus GS350 2007 will be worth about $16K by November 2009....wow.....they need a new computer program...WOW

Remember folks we our seeing some of these cars sell for low to mid $40's? yes you might find a few with those options in the mix that we would like... personally i would spend $10k more just to have keyless and the comfort package... why? because a used 2006 Lexus GS300 we can pick up for $21k HAS THESE OPTIONS STANDARD!!!!.....it is an insult not to have those options on my car... so the extra coin for the right car in crucial.....


Great example of why people do not buy certain cars and why they SHOULD be .....
I just met a guy the other day while I was getting a sub at the local sub shop... I drove my CLS there.... the guy just bought brand new 2009 M45s....nice car...they will build about 50k of these cars...he paid cash....yes cash...his walk out price was $53k for this car.....I said as he was admiring my car ....hey why didnt you buy a used Mercedes? His answer "well I wanted something new and a car like yours is much more then I could spend"
I said I have my car up for sale for $50k and the warranty is actually better then your new car... he said " no way $50k?" I would of paid some more to get a car like yours ..it is no comparison to my car....... he was in shock.... he had no idea that a CLS55 was that cheap....now keep in mind he just paid $50k for a nissan that will blend in the crowd with any kind of wheels and any kind of paint job....in other words a yuppie mobile all the way......He said "I thought your car was new as well and like a hundred grand" I said "no it has 42k miles it is a 2006 and is perfect in and out....like a new car....Mercedes builds their cars differently and they dont get worn out like most cars do" he said "if I had known any of this I would much rather have your car ....atleast I would know when I am driving it people would notice and think I am driving a expensive car when I spent a lot less... and the CLS is the best looking sedan anybody can own anyway more so with those kickass wheels..

Point to this story.... Well our cars should not be given away for less then what a new G37 coupe sells for a for what a new G35 or M45 costs....this is insane... even with 40k or 50k miles... this is irrelevent....if the car is clean the car is simply a better looking and better built car then any yuppie mobile out there.... the envy of a guy who looks at our cars who is driving a Inifiniti or Lexus is enough to say " yeah I spent a little more on my used Benz but damn I am driving a hand built super sedan not a run of the mill common sedan"

WE ARE SELLING OUR CARS TOO CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screw the economy..... new INFINITIS AND LOADED HONDA ACCORDS AS WELL AS SRT-8'S AND ACURA TL'S are being sold by the hundreds daily....and our cars should be compared to the price of one of these cars???? **** THAT

This is like comparing a Vette to a Ferrari F430.... not EVEN in the same ball park !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but would you sell your ferrari for the price of a vette?????????

DucatiNut

Well in view of the above and the fact that the Manheim auction prices are wholesale and need buyers premium etc added, I am still OK with my $55K for my 06 with 14K miles. ..... could have been cheaper but hey, I was able to get a complete copy of the CPO maintenance work and repairs to get it onto the lot as well as a printout of the service history at the same dealership it was purchased from. Call me naive but this is worth something to me. Remember you forget about the low cost when you have more piece of mind. Site if the car ****s itself next week I will be pretty pissed but that risk is far more likely on a car you know absolutely nothing about.
One other thing to remember ..... the buyer behaviour of a dealer at Manheim and you or I in a dealership is totally different. We are more concerned with long term reliability and quality whereas the dealers buying at the auction just need something they can get off the lot quickly ..... as long as it LOOKS OK they don't care.... Understanding this explains some of the cost differences also.
Oh also .... looking at what the dealer did to CPO my car I would say they spent at least a day of solid work on it plus a few small parts. While there is no total labor or parts costs listed I would estimate it would have cost me at least $2K to $3K to have this work done had I bought a car at auction and taken it to them to go over and tidy up.... plus I have the benefit of knowing what was needed BEFORE I bought the car!

itswindee

Make friends with a wholesaler.

Improviz

And I know you read the thread.

So, I'll repeat: where did you find a CLS55 w/38K miles for $38K?

Also, why do you troll not only here, but also in the Corvette forum, doing exactly the same thing you do here, namely enter into each and every thread about sales/pricing you can find, and try to talk down the price of Corvettes?

I found pages and pages of results, just by looking at your profile on the Corvette forum, of you over there, doing exactly the same thing....we are talking 111 total posts over there, and I'd venture that damn near all of them are the same thing....and, lo and behold, a quick google search yields you doing the same thing, over in the Cherokee SRT8 forum...or here, again, in this powerboating forum....and again, in the NSX forum...

I mean, really, is this some sort of odd hobby, or what?

newguycls55

Do you know any wholesaler that I can make friends with here in SoCal? I am buried during the weekdays with work and never run into people with wholesale ability.. haha.... Do you have wholesale capability? or Maybe I need to stop by the smaller private dealership this weekend and make friends....

isellpower

Woodhouse, the worlds largest Ford and Viper dealer. I've purchased many, many Vipers from them as well as all of our company trucks. One of the managers drives a CLS that was traded in and he loves it. I told them I was willing to pay close to 40K for one. About 1 week ago they called and said they had a guy trying to trade in a silver one. Just as the Porsche dealership manager said from the Rennlist thread, high 30's is the current trade in for the CLS. My daily is an 07 H2 which the used market has declared a jihad on it's reasale value. In my humble opinion the CLS will steady in the mid to high 30's similar to the E55 AMG. Do you not think that the value has gone down since the last auction prices given? Snow on the ground for those of us North of Texas also means we pay much less for rwd cars this time of year.
Call and offer this guy 40K. I've offered 38.5 and he declined, but has come back very close to 40. Perhaps it's a real clunker, but he says no problem if I want to take it for a PPI.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...0&cardist=1239

isellpower

As odd as it may sound tracking some used car values is a sort of hobbie. Viper guys stirring the pot on Corvetteforum is an age old tradition. I currently follow the Gen III Vipers which can be had with less than 10K miles for sub 40K all day long. I also try to follow M5's, AMG, and 911tt's. Other than the Vipers I refuse to follow the pricing on the other cars I currently own because it will lead to a massive bout of depression. You don't think that I claim to have not been bashed severely on my own vehicles do you? As I have said before the CLS and AMG's in general are far from the worst as far as depreciation goes. You want to see *** kicking follow some for sale threads on 5 year old boats that sold new for 500K and are now in the 125-150K range.

Improviz

Apparently he must've had second thoughts, as they do not list this vehicle in inventory (two Mercedes on their site, neither of which is a CLS).

So they were going to sell it to you at wholesale? And you're trying to tell everyone that this is resale??

Nice.

Again, I don't know what your intention is here, but it certainly doesn't seem particularly honest or honorable; either that, or you're honestly ignoring some pretty pertinant facts. I produced actual asking price data that shows that the average asking price is in the $50's, not the high $30's. Your response has been to totally ignore this data and keep trying to imply that the lowest asking price sets the standard, and that auction prices are retail.



Typically retail comes in at 20% above wholesale. So, an auction car purchased at $40,500 (the average price of the average-condition auction cars in the Manheim list above) will retail out at $48.6K, and the key phrase here is auction cars, which often retail for less than the trade-ins. The below-average cars, which are much lower, will also retail out much lower. But they are in below-average condition, which at an auction is NOT good!

Well, again, if you had a realistic idea of how depreciation actually works, you would know that saying the price for any vehicle is going to "steady" is patently ridiculous. For about the fifth time now, vehicles depreciate at a fixed rate. Each and every year. They do not suddenly stop when they hit a certain price point.

At some point, they will be in the 30's, and at some point after that they will be in the 20's. But they will not, ever, stabilize. Prices are not dynamic, they are static.

Prices fall all the time, and at this time of year, with this economy, they're going down faster than usual. Again: thanks for the information.

Did you also happen to know that prices do not fall at a linear fashion throughout the year, but rather tend to fall much more rapidly in the fall months? Did you know that there is a reason for this, namely that people are more likely to purchase in spring and summer and less likely in the fall, coupled with the release of new model year cars in the fall? Which, coupled with a) a crashing recession, b) a glut of unsold cars due to a), and c) a flood of late '06 lease returns, which there usually are at this time of year thanks to end-of-year incentive packages, has resulted in increased supply....

No, that's not it...people up there are intelligent enough to know that it will snow in winter when they purchase cars. It is the factors listed above.

For sale at a small independent dealer. Two-owner car, lease return, purchased at auction, warranty expires in less than three months. All of which lower its value. On sale in Florida, one of the most depressed states economically in the country right now, which lowers its demand, but this hardly sets the standard for the country as a whole, any more than real estate prices in Florida set the standard for the country as a whole. Next?

Again and again, you keep trying to argue that the lowest asking price sets the standard. It does not. You are ignorant, and you are wrong.

Improviz

I track values as well, and nice dodge, but I'm quite certain you're aware my question had absolutely nothing to do with this. My question had to do with why it is you seem to have a compulsion to haunt forums and tell people that they're paying/asking too much for their cars, based solely upon your impressions of the worth of cars from examining bottom-of-the-barrel dealers and prices on fleabay.

Do you go to the Viper forum and engage in the same behavior, i.e. tell people who are buying/selling there that they're paying/asking too much?

Luxury items always take a hit in recessions. It's always a case of supply and demand.

But again, that's not my concern: my concern is your little lowballing jihad. What's the motivation here?

itswindee

Yes, I have access to Manheim auctions nationwide - my father is a wholesaler. PM and I'll give you his contact info.

sheem166

Hello everyone..i was actually trying to get an 2004 Acura TL.. i was just wondering if anyone would have an average price for that car at the Manheim Auction..

Thank you
Lilsheem2004@yahoo.com

Full Throttle

Not always i use the simulcast and ove.com to buy nationally. NE Manheim prices are very high. I often buy on the west coast and resale at NE Manheim locations.

rockjock

Let us know what milage you are looking at-and if it has navi and I can get some #s for you (or Windee)-
GL on the shopping!