Frenetic
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These two models are the last of a dying breed in Mercedes’ lineup. A car with no mild hybrid, no finicky lithium battery, no electric turbos, no plug in anything except yourself, which is one of the main reasons I decided to get this. I intend to keep this a while and I would choose analog over a mild hybrid everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. It would not surprise me that every AMG is fully hybridized to one extent or another over the next decade. So, enjoy these cars while you can.
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Congrats again and look forward to hearing more about it from you.Originally Posted by Frenetic
These two models are the last of a dying breed in Mercedes’ lineup. A car with no mild hybrid, no finicky lithium battery, no electric turbos, no plug in anything except yourself, which is one of the main reasons I decided to get this. I intend to keep this a while and I would choose analog over a mild hybrid everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. It would not surprise me that every AMG is fully hybridized to one extent or another over the next decade. So, enjoy these cars while you can.
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It's true auto lovers- the European pressures on emissions is a real issue. Not to mention "noise". The nice rumble of cross cranks soon to be taken by flat cranks. Let's hope AMG always provides a non F1 car to enjoy without that electric boost.
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I'd argue the last gen GT and C63 were the last analog AMGs. They were the last proper RWD AMGs. 4Matic+ unfortunately makes the driving experience too digital. A computer decides when to send power to the front to pull the car straight and it needs a complicated drift mode to truly have fun. I had the pleasure of driving the GT63 at the Mercedes test facility in Immendingen, Germany a little over a year ago. I didn't hate it, but there's just too much digital technology between 4Matic+ and rear wheel steering. When we were drifting them, mine suddenly threw a rear wheel steering error and refused to activate drift mode after that. Just the perfect example of how the powertrain is too complicated. I do understand that there are places in the world that get snow and owners of these cars might wanna drive it all year around, but why not offer RWD and AWD versions of it like Porsche does, and make RWS optional?
Either way, congrats on the car. I do like the M177/178 powertrains, but at the same time as opposed to the previous gen GT, this new GT is just too similar to my C63S Coupe. It's essentially the same recipe, but for a lot more money and with complications that I don't really want and instead are just one more thing that can break. That goes for the Active Ride Control suspension as well. It's a great suspension, but just wait until those high pressure hydraulic links between the dampers spring a leak. Audi had major issues with that with their version of this type of suspension in their RS models. They finally got rid of it and replaced it with a more traditional adaptive suspension in the new RS5 despite that car now weighing almost 2.5 tons. The weight of these things is really what bothers me the most. The new GT is now almost 4500 lbs, so they need all these complicated systems to still handle like a lighter car. Nothing analog about this to be frank. The computers are working hard to make it handle more like a 3000+ lbs sports car.
Either way, congrats on the car. I do like the M177/178 powertrains, but at the same time as opposed to the previous gen GT, this new GT is just too similar to my C63S Coupe. It's essentially the same recipe, but for a lot more money and with complications that I don't really want and instead are just one more thing that can break. That goes for the Active Ride Control suspension as well. It's a great suspension, but just wait until those high pressure hydraulic links between the dampers spring a leak. Audi had major issues with that with their version of this type of suspension in their RS models. They finally got rid of it and replaced it with a more traditional adaptive suspension in the new RS5 despite that car now weighing almost 2.5 tons. The weight of these things is really what bothers me the most. The new GT is now almost 4500 lbs, so they need all these complicated systems to still handle like a lighter car. Nothing analog about this to be frank. The computers are working hard to make it handle more like a 3000+ lbs sports car.
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Yeah, when I say “analog,” I’m talking about hybridization only. The longevity of 48V mild hybrids is indeterminate but it’s guaranteed those ultra expensive batteries will need to be replaced at one point or another. Having all of the accessories powered from that single battery makes for an unpleasant single-point-of-failure experience. I guess it’s no different than a drive belt failing but I would take the belt over the battery any day of the week.
But yes, technology outside of hybridization is inevitable along with weight due to safety regulations and other requirements. I would say Porsche has done the best job keeping things analog and light, but even the 911 has gone full digital and has grown in size and weight. The weight doesn’t really bother me personally, but I have no personal tangible experience or comparison so ignorance is bliss I guess.
I guess I should be thankful the active ride control is no longer standard in the 55, instead coming with AMG’s ride control via air suspension and old fashioned sway bars. However, that dynamic package also lists an electronically controlled limited slip. Does that mean the base car has a mechanical limited slip? What is in my coming car?
But yes, technology outside of hybridization is inevitable along with weight due to safety regulations and other requirements. I would say Porsche has done the best job keeping things analog and light, but even the 911 has gone full digital and has grown in size and weight. The weight doesn’t really bother me personally, but I have no personal tangible experience or comparison so ignorance is bliss I guess.
I guess I should be thankful the active ride control is no longer standard in the 55, instead coming with AMG’s ride control via air suspension and old fashioned sway bars. However, that dynamic package also lists an electronically controlled limited slip. Does that mean the base car has a mechanical limited slip? What is in my coming car?
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TBH, I don't have much of an issue with mild hybrid. That's a 48V system with a small battery powering the accessories and then some, similar to the traditional 12V battery. It gets rid of belt driven accessories and the traditional starter motor. It's not like the 12V battery never needs replacement and MB etc. have already used lithium batteries for the 12V battery. The previous gen GT had a lithium 12V battery.
As for the diff, that's a good question. Worst case the 55 now has an open diff. Previously the 63 models came standard with a mechanical LSD, and the S models upgraded that to an electronic limited slip differential. They are either going back to that setup with the 55 having a mechanical LSD, and optional electronic LSD and the 63 come standard with the electronic LSD, or the 55 is becoming more like the S63 Coupe used to be and just has open differentials, unless you get the dynamic package.
Looking at the SL55 on mbusa.com which already has the electronic diff listed as optional, there's no limited slip differential mentioned as part of the standard performance features, so I have a feeling the 55 just has an open differential. That was the case in the past as well. The W204 and W212 from what I remember came standard with open differentials at one point and then had a dynamics package that would optionally add a mechanical LSD. To be fair, if all you gonna do with your 55 is boulevard cruising and commuting, a locking differential isn't gonna add anything. That only pays off if you drive dynamically where an open differential struggles with putting the power down, but you still have 4Matic in that case. Locking rear differentials are more important with RWD than with AWD.
As for the diff, that's a good question. Worst case the 55 now has an open diff. Previously the 63 models came standard with a mechanical LSD, and the S models upgraded that to an electronic limited slip differential. They are either going back to that setup with the 55 having a mechanical LSD, and optional electronic LSD and the 63 come standard with the electronic LSD, or the 55 is becoming more like the S63 Coupe used to be and just has open differentials, unless you get the dynamic package.
Looking at the SL55 on mbusa.com which already has the electronic diff listed as optional, there's no limited slip differential mentioned as part of the standard performance features, so I have a feeling the 55 just has an open differential. That was the case in the past as well. The W204 and W212 from what I remember came standard with open differentials at one point and then had a dynamics package that would optionally add a mechanical LSD. To be fair, if all you gonna do with your 55 is boulevard cruising and commuting, a locking differential isn't gonna add anything. That only pays off if you drive dynamically where an open differential struggles with putting the power down, but you still have 4Matic in that case. Locking rear differentials are more important with RWD than with AWD.
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The S Class has an open differential as well I think. To be fair, I am a boulevard cruiser with an occasional freeway onramp racer, but that's it. I'm sure this will be fine.
When it comes to the mild hybrid, you've seen all of the reported problems with the lithium batteries here, and they are immeasurably more expensive to replace versus a 12V AGM or even 12V lithium.
When it comes to the mild hybrid, you've seen all of the reported problems with the lithium batteries here, and they are immeasurably more expensive to replace versus a 12V AGM or even 12V lithium.
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You might be thinking of full hybrid or even EV batteries. Mild hybrid batteries are very small. Typically range from 0.4 to 1 kWh. A 12V battery has around 0.5 kWh, so on the low end the mild hybrid batteries cost about as much as a lithium 12V battery and about double at the high end. However, while 12V batteries pretty much last 4-6 years due to how they are being optimized for short bursts and even the lithium variants are charged to 100%, the mild hybrid batteries are used and charged like EV batteries, so they spend their life roughly between 20-80% state of charge making them last 10+ years. So, you'll be going through probably 3+ 12V batteries before the mild hybrid battery needs to be replaced.
Yes, MB has been having growing pains with their 48V system, but as far as I know, those issues are largely resolved and the 48V system along with the battery as far as I know falls under the 8 year/80k miles emissions warranty. So any issues during that time will be covered by the warranty. I'm just saying all this, because many people have twisted misconceptions about the longevity of lithium batteries in hybrid and full EV setups. Those batteries often outlast the car itself, especially if the car gets wrecked.
Oh, and yes, the regular MB models all have open differentials. That's the default for cars. Up until the W223, even the S63 only had open differentials. The W223 S63 is the first one that got the locking differential.
Yes, MB has been having growing pains with their 48V system, but as far as I know, those issues are largely resolved and the 48V system along with the battery as far as I know falls under the 8 year/80k miles emissions warranty. So any issues during that time will be covered by the warranty. I'm just saying all this, because many people have twisted misconceptions about the longevity of lithium batteries in hybrid and full EV setups. Those batteries often outlast the car itself, especially if the car gets wrecked.
Oh, and yes, the regular MB models all have open differentials. That's the default for cars. Up until the W223, even the S63 only had open differentials. The W223 S63 is the first one that got the locking differential.
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