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I only did the front of my GT with a matte PPF and you cannot see the difference unless the lights hits it a certain way during day and you are really paying attention real close. 99% of the people do not know the difference.
It sure is a must on magno paint as others have said, chips cannot easily be fixed.
fastmd: how about driving impressions of the GTR?
When you looked at your car really closely when they were applying the matte wrap, could you tell the difference between the parts that were wrapped and the ones that weren't?
What I'm getting at is, if one has the mango paint, could they just wrap the front clip with matte film and leave the rest alone, or is the difference significant enough that it's either the wrap whole car or nothing?
Serge,
I’ve learned a great deal from ‘fastmd’ in this thread as even though I’ve had loads of cars protected via a ‘clear bra’, like you I thought that a matte film over a matte painted car would be ‘too much’.
As for your in-bound car, I would at the very least protect the whole front clip from the windshield forward; the whole of the rocker panels; in front of/behind the rear wheels, and potentially the rear bumper. You do NOT want to have even the very best body shop attempt to repair/match the factory matte paints; probably a recipe for disaster.
To my way of thinking I’d absolutely ‘wrap’ the whole car and then get it coated with the appropriate ceramic ‘wax’ for a matte film; just as fastmd mentions. In this way you’d have ultimate protection and probably nothing to do to keep it clean except wash the damn thing and use an appropriate detail spray. I also think getting a White car completely wrapped always looks best as white can be ‘tricky’ with certain films; best to cover everything.
Also, don’t forget windshield protection. Jesus, I sound like a Dad sending his teenage son out for his first date! lol
I’ve learned a great deal from ‘fastmd’ in this thread as even though I’ve had loads of cars protected via a ‘clear bra’, like you I thought that a matte film over a matte painted car would be ‘too much’.
As for your in-bound car, I would at the very least protect the whole front clip from the windshield forward; the whole of the rocker panels; in front of/behind the rear wheels, and potentially the rear bumper. You do NOT want to have even the very best body shop attempt to repair/match the factory matte paints; probably a recipe for disaster.
To my way of thinking I’d absolutely ‘wrap’ the whole car and then get it coated with the appropriate ceramic ‘wax’ for a matte film; just as fastmd mentions. In this way you’d have ultimate protection and probably nothing to do to keep it clean except wash the damn thing and use an appropriate detail spray. I also think getting a White car completely wrapped always looks best as white can be ‘tricky’ with certain films; best to cover everything.
Also, don’t forget windshield protection. Jesus, I sound like a Dad sending his teenage son out for his first date! lol
Btw: any word when your car might be delivered?
Bish
Hey David,
So my incoming GTR isn't matte, it's Designo Diamond White Metallic, and I was going to have everything but the rear bumper and hatch wrapped in either 3M or Suntek clear ppf, then coated with ceramic pro, both for the street but mostly for track use. I learned a while ago that there isn't a worst ppf film than xpel ... it is stupid porous which makes most coatings result in making it cloudy, and almost impossible to clean after track use because debris gets embedded in it. I had it on my Callaway Z06 and it took 6hrs to clean in after a couple of hours at Roebling Road. As I mentioned I was curious to know how a matte ppf would look on the Designo Diamond White Metallic because I have never seen that in person. The S63 has a color called Designo Magno Cashmere White with is a matte white, and I wonder if my white with matte film would yield the same effect. But if I'm not sure I'll stick with the regular clear ppf as planned.
My question about matte ppf on matte paint was in case I was going to buy new E63S with the matte black paint, but after driving it I decided to pass on it so it's a moot point at this juncture.
----------------------------------
I dunno when my car will be delivered. It's still at VPC Brunswick awaiting the parts to clear the stop sale. I'm away next week till the 1st. I'm hoping that it will be here by the time I get back. Otherwise my ADD may kick in and I might just pass on it and get something else.
So my incoming GTR isn't matte, it's Designo Diamond White Metallic, and I was going to have everything but the rear bumper and hatch wrapped in either 3M or Suntek clear ppf, then coated with ceramic pro, both for the street but mostly for track use. I learned a while ago that there isn't a worst ppf film than xpel ... it is stupid porous which makes most coatings result in making it cloudy, and almost impossible to clean after track use because debris gets embedded in it. I had it on my Callaway Z06 and it took 6hrs to clean in after a couple of hours at Roebling Road. As I mentioned I was curious to know how a matte ppf would look on the Designo Diamond White Metallic because I have never seen that in person. The S63 has a color called Designo Magno Cashmere White with is a matte white, and I wonder if my white with matte film would yield the same effect. But if I'm not sure I'll stick with the regular clear ppf as planned.
My question about matte ppf on matte paint was in case I was going to buy new E63S with the matte black paint, but after driving it I decided to pass on it so it's a moot point at this juncture.
----------------------------------
I dunno when my car will be delivered. It's still at VPC Brunswick awaiting the parts to clear the stop sale. I'm away next week till the 1st. I'm hoping that it will be here by the time I get back. Otherwise my ADD may kick in and I might just pass on it and get something else.
Ah, makes more sense to me now.
I can only imagine that the Designo White covered 100% in the Xpel Stealth would look incredible.
I have never had any trouble getting track ‘debris’ off of the Xpel Ultimate from the Z06, but I did also have it Opticoated right after the film was applied. Perhaps that helped?
It used to be that Xpel was 8mil thick, and Suntek was 6mil; hence the reason the Suntek ‘laid down’ easier, and perhaps was better clarity wise, but that Xpel was more protective. Not sure if those facts are still the same today.
My car will be Selenite Grey, I’ll then have to decide whether to cover it completely in a ‘matte’ film, or just the most vulnerable areas in a clear film to keep it looking glossy.
In my experience and observation, the new 3M and Suntek films are a lot less porous than the Xpel. For example you can bypass ceramic coating and just wax them and they will look the same. You put wax on Xpel and it will sink into the film and make it cloudy, and it's practically impossible to reverse. I've had three people locally that put wax on Xpel and had to have the whole thing taken off burning 4k in the process, and more if they wanted to have new film put on again. Some ceramic coatings combine well with Xpel and some don't. On my 15 Z06 I had 3M and wax and it took about an hour to get all the debris and rubber from the track, on my 16 Callaway Z06 I had Xpel and Cquartz, and it really did take six hours to get it cleaned.
Xpel spends a boatload of $ on marketing but it's a company riddled with issues. They are being sued by other companies for stealing technology and installers are dropping them left and right for a multitude of reasons, including pricing, lack of customer service, quality of product, and others. With other companies like 3M and Suntek raising their game and providing better and more inexpensive products, I will never use Xpel again.
One last note in regards to Xpel Stealth. About a year and a half ago I had a test sample done with it on a white Range Rover spare body panel. Without any coating on, any vigorous brushing even with a microfiber towel resulted in glossifying the film. We literally put some water and soap on the film, scrubbed it with a sponge and dried it with a microfiber towel and you could see huge glossy streaks on the film afterwards. Maybe ceramic coating negates this effect, but when we did the same with Suntek matte film without any coating there were zero gloss streaks. (there was no matte 3M film at the time to test)
Anyhoot, if I decide to pass on a matte film for the GTR I'm just going to use 3M and a coat of wax, same result as Xpel with two coats of ceramic at half the price and easier to clean after track use.
AMG GTR, G63, Mclaren 675 LT S, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3, many more
Originally Posted by thebishman
Serge,
I’ve learned a great deal from ‘fastmd’ in this thread as even though I’ve had loads of cars protected via a ‘clear bra’, like you I thought that a matte film over a matte painted car would be ‘too much’.
As for your in-bound car, I would at the very least protect the whole front clip from the windshield forward; the whole of the rocker panels; in front of/behind the rear wheels, and potentially the rear bumper. You do NOT want to have even the very best body shop attempt to repair/match the factory matte paints; probably a recipe for disaster.
To my way of thinking I’d absolutely ‘wrap’ the whole car and then get it coated with the appropriate ceramic ‘wax’ for a matte film; just as fastmd mentions. In this way you’d have ultimate protection and probably nothing to do to keep it clean except wash the damn thing and use an appropriate detail spray. I also think getting a White car completely wrapped always looks best as white can be ‘tricky’ with certain films; best to cover everything.
Also, don’t forget windshield protection. Jesus, I sound like a Dad sending his teenage son out for his first date! lol
Btw: any word when your car might be delivered?
Bish
Glad I could hep. Make sure you have them try a few different films on the windshield, my experience they all have different optical clarity.
AMG GTR, G63, Mclaren 675 LT S, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3, many more
Originally Posted by soulsea
In my experience and observation, the new 3M and Suntek films are a lot less porous than the Xpel. For example you can bypass ceramic coating and just wax them and they will look the same. You put wax on Xpel and it will sink into the film and make it cloudy, and it's practically impossible to reverse. I've had three people locally that put wax on Xpel and had to have the whole thing taken off burning 4k in the process, and more if they wanted to have new film put on again. Some ceramic coatings combine well with Xpel and some don't. On my 15 Z06 I had 3M and wax and it took about an hour to get all the debris and rubber from the track, on my 16 Callaway Z06 I had Xpel and Cquartz, and it really did take six hours to get it cleaned.
Xpel spends a boatload of $ on marketing but it's a company riddled with issues. They are being sued by other companies for stealing technology and installers are dropping them left and right for a multitude of reasons, including pricing, lack of customer service, quality of product, and others. With other companies like 3M and Suntek raising their game and providing better and more inexpensive products, I will never use Xpel again.
One last note in regards to Xpel Stealth. About a year and a half ago I had a test sample done with it on a white Range Rover spare body panel. Without any coating on, any vigorous brushing even with a microfiber towel resulted in glossifying the film. We literally put some water and soap on the film, scrubbed it with a sponge and dried it with a microfiber towel and you could see huge glossy streaks on the film afterwards. Maybe ceramic coating negates this effect, but when we did the same with Suntek matte film without any coating there were zero gloss streaks. (there was no matte 3M film at the time to test)
Anyhoot, if I decide to pass on a matte film for the GTR I'm just going to use 3M and a coat of wax, same result as Xpel with two coats of ceramic at half the price and easier to clean after track use.
I have never experienced any of those problems with Xpel. 3m film in my opinion is the worst with regards to clarity. I have had numerous coats of wax applied to Xpel on some of my cars which were not coated, and not once were they cloudy. Like I said before, it is all about the installer, both for the film and the coating. I tried 3M on one of my Viper ACRs, because they said it was more durable, but it looked like a$$, so ripped it off.
I do think Suntek is a quality product. Also, Mother's makes a racing debris remover which is amazing. I use it on my track cars when I feel like having them clean and removes everything off the clear bra. Try that next time, it may work for you.
I disagree that wax will have the same quality of a true quality ceramic coating. Wax is just to soft.
Since you are getting white, I hope whatever you choose you do the who panel, i.e. whole hood, not half. The seam is very visible on white cars. On my 458 Speciale which was white, my dealer had the Suntek clear bra installed for me because they owed me a refund on something else, and they only had half the hood done. Install was great, Suntek was very clear, but the seam was very noticeable.
AMG GTR, G63, Mclaren 675 LT S, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3, many more
Originally Posted by thebishman
Ah, makes more sense to me now.
I can only imagine that the Designo White covered 100% in the Xpel Stealth would look incredible.
I have never had any trouble getting track ‘debris’ off of the Xpel Ultimate from the Z06, but I did also have it Opticoated right after the film was applied. Perhaps that helped?
It used to be that Xpel was 8mil thick, and Suntek was 6mil; hence the reason the Suntek ‘laid down’ easier, and perhaps was better clarity wise, but that Xpel was more protective. Not sure if those facts are still the same today.
My car will be Selenite Grey, I’ll then have to decide whether to cover it completely in a ‘matte’ film, or just the most vulnerable areas in a clear film to keep it looking glossy.
Bish
Hey since you car is Selenite Grey, have you thought about Xpel ultimate on the paint and Xpel stealth on all the exterior carbon fiber if you chose both Carbon Packages? It would be opposite the GTR pattern. That would look great!
On my Mclaren 675 LT spider, my paint is Porsche Voodoo Blue, and I had optioned all matte carbon fiber trim, even the fender vents ($16K for 2 vents and people complain about benz option prices) and it looks phenomenal!
Hey since you car is Selenite Grey, have you thought about Xpel ultimate on the paint and Xpel stealth on all the exterior carbon fiber if you chose both Carbon Packages? It would be opposite the GTR pattern. That would look great!
On my Mclaren 675 LT spider, my paint is Porsche Voodoo Blue, and I had optioned all matte carbon fiber trim, even the fender vents ($16K for 2 vents and people complain about benz option prices) and it looks phenomenal!
So, it’s interesting that you mention this. On my ‘10 R8 V10 I had the Black Pearl areas covered 100% by Premier in CA with their ‘Satin Guard’ film, and then all of the exterior Carbon Fibre was covered in their ‘Clear Guard’. Christ what a fantastic technical job they did, and the car looked incredible. I wonder whether they are still in business as no one even from CA seems to mention them anymore.
On the GT R you’re suggesting the exact opposite. I shall have to think strongly on it. Certainly the CF needs to be protected or it can get destroyed on track PDQ!
Your 675LT is my dream car btw. If there was a Macca dealership closer to me I would have seriously thought about a 570S instead of the GT R, but the ‘electrical gremlins’ and potential ‘overheating issues’ at the track have me a little worried. Whether there is much substance to these internet posts or not, I don’t know.
Glad I could hep. Make sure you have them try a few different films on the windshield, my experience they all have different optical clarity.
I’ve used ‘Clearplex’ on multiple cars that I’ve tracked as it really protects the windshield. Best to replace it annually though, plus the installer’s experience with it is so important as it’s far ‘stiffer’ than a ‘clear bra’ type of film and can be a real bear to install properly.
There is a new product being advertised in Panorama, but I can’t seem to locate it. I thought it was called ‘windshield-armor’, but may be mistaken.
I think its damn near impossible to use any type of actual clear bra film as they just aren’t clear enough.
I’ve used ‘Clearplex’ on multiple cars that I’ve tracked as it really protects the windshield. Best to replace it annually though, plus the installer’s experience with it is so important as it’s far ‘stiffer’ than a ‘clear bra’ type of film and can be a real bear to install properly.
There is a new product being advertised in Panorama, but I can’t seem to locate it. I thought it was called ‘windshield-armor’, but may be mistaken.
I think its damn near impossible to use any type of actual clear bra film as they just aren’t clear enough.
Bish
My thoughts as well. Fishbowl effect maybe ? Windshield is so small.
AMG GTR, G63, Mclaren 675 LT S, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3, many more
Originally Posted by emericr
I only did the front of my GT with a matte PPF and you cannot see the difference unless the lights hits it a certain way during day and you are really paying attention real close. 99% of the people do not know the difference.
It sure is a must on magno paint as others have said, chips cannot easily be fixed.
fastmd: how about driving impressions of the GTR?
The GTR is a f**** blast to drive. Only problem is that I am trying to be civilized during the break in period.
AMG GTR, G63, Mclaren 675 LT S, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT3, many more
Originally Posted by thebishman
I’ve used ‘Clearplex’ on multiple cars that I’ve tracked as it really protects the windshield. Best to replace it annually though, plus the installer’s experience with it is so important as it’s far ‘stiffer’ than a ‘clear bra’ type of film and can be a real bear to install properly.
There is a new product being advertised in Panorama, but I can’t seem to locate it. I thought it was called ‘windshield-armor’, but may be mistaken.
I think its damn near impossible to use any type of actual clear bra film as they just aren’t clear enough.
Bish
I have used the clearplex and it's been good. But lately I have stopped because like you said it needs to be replaced at least annually and it gets on my nerves.
I have used the clearplex and it's been good. But lately I have stopped because like you said it needs to be replaced at least annually and it gets on my nerves.
Sums it up nicely! lol
The only reason I’ve kept it on my Z06 is because of the HUD which means the bloody windshield is expensive to replace, along with being worried about the expertise of the ‘technician’ having to replace it if it took a large impact.
Since you are getting white, I hope whatever you choose you do the who panel, i.e. whole hood, not half. The seam is very visible on white cars. On my 458 Speciale which was white, my dealer had the Suntek clear bra installed for me because they owed me a refund on something else, and they only had half the hood done. Install was great, Suntek was very clear, but the seam was very noticeable.
Omg, I think my ocd head would explode if I had a seam in the middle of the hood.
As far as my experience with different films:
15 Z06 with 3M and just wax:
16 Callaway Z06, Xpel and Cquartz:
Conceding that white is not going to be as reflective as a darker color, you can still see the difference in brilliance between the one above and this one.
15 TTS paint corrected from new, xpel and ceramic pro (funk me wrapping a black 911 was a pita):
On this one I had to replace the front clip and hood films once because the debris and rubber had sunk into the film so deep that it could not be cleaned, hence why I will never use Xpel again on a car that sees the track. Regular road use, Xpel and a ceramic coating are not going to exhibit many issues.
Before Xpel:
Paint correction:
After xpel ... you can tell that even with paint correction and ceramic pro, the xpel results in a slightly more dull effect in direct sunlight than the 3M:
16 RS with Xpel and Modesto (I was the second owner on this one so that's why it had that combo, but I must admit it worked really well. If for some reason I had no choice but to use Xpel, Modesto is the best coating I have seen on it):
I don't want to post all the other cars that I've had film put on cause I'm not trying to show off my car purchase history, just using some recent examples that have been through track use.
If one doesn't track most films today are good to great, come with long term warranties against discoloration, so 95% of how it looks is down to the skill of the installer.
But when you track the film is put through a lot more wear and abuse, and that's when the optimal combination of film, coating, and cost comes into place.
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Edit to add: I hadn't looked up what happened with the 3M lawsuit against Xpel for infringing on its patents. Apparently they settled out of court earlier this year and Xpel has agreed to pay a license fee to use 3M technology. http://www.xpel.com/news/xpel-3m-settlement/
Again, I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but Xpel does a great job marketing their product as being 'premium' over its competitors (even though they use their competitors technology), and the people who pay extra for it reinforce this 'pitch' in order to justify their purchase (which is part of Xpel's marketing). The truth is, find the best installer out there and you can use 3M, Suntek and whatever ceramic coating on top of it and you will get an equal or better product to Xpel at considerably less expense.
Anyone in Atlanta that can give me a recommendation for a highly qualified wrap shop?
Normally I would have my car wrapped locally in Charleston, but I'm going to be away for the next ten days and I'm hoping my car will be delivered to MB Buckhead by the end of the coming week, and since it's going to be sitting there anyway I might as well have it wrapped and tinted, and get it delivered all done by the time I come back.
Anyone in Atlanta that can give me a recommendation for a highly qualified wrap shop?
Normally I would have my car wrapped locally in Charleston, but I'm going to be away for the next ten days and I'm hoping my car will be delivered to MB Buckhead by the end of the coming week, and since it's going to be sitting there anyway I might as well have it wrapped and tinted, and get it delivered all done by the time I come back.
Thanks.
absolutely.
David Deering of speed films in Alpharetta 678-249-7165. GREAT work. Does all the P dealers.
Anyone in Atlanta that can give me a recommendation for a highly qualified wrap shop?
Normally I would have my car wrapped locally in Charleston, but I'm going to be away for the next ten days and I'm hoping my car will be delivered to MB Buckhead by the end of the coming week, and since it's going to be sitting there anyway I might as well have it wrapped and tinted, and get it delivered all done by the time I come back.
As I mentioned in a previous thread I was having my GTR wrapped in clear bra as I do all my vehicles.
This being matte paint( Green Hell Magno) it was going to be completely covered. I like to drive my cars and live in the NYC/NJ area and road debris is rampant.
My Installer uses both Xpel and Suntek. I was concerned about the film changing the appearance of the paint. We put a piece of Suntek matte and Xpel stealth on the car so I can see the difference. I read on some of the forum that Suntek looks better than Xpel on Magno paint.
Xpel Stealth was clearly better, the Suntek muted the paint. My installers said some prefer Suntek for matte because it is easier to work with and more forgiving.
Interesting, mine is being wrapped right now and I went with Suntek over the Xpel because the Xpel made my Selenite Magno look too glossy (to my eye); i guess it really it is color dependent. If anyone else is considering a wrap I suggest you do what FastMD and I did and have your installer put a sample on your car and look at it in the sun and see what looks better to you.
I went with Suntek Matte on the body, and Suntek Gloss on all carbon (on the carbon the suntek and xpel looks pretty much identical; i could have gone either way there)
10-20-2017, 07:49 AM
