M178’s have diff size turbos?
08-09-2018, 01:34 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
M178’s have diff size turbos?
Are the turbos in the new e63 m178 different size then the Amg gts? Not the actuall compressor housing size but maybe higher MM wheels ?
stock baseline e63 m178 is putting down more and tuned of course is putting down more then stock/tuned m178 in Gts , despite the e63 being a standard auto and awd
has to be bigger turbos as tune in both is not showing same or higher numbers in gts?
if so- e63 m178 turbo part #’s would have to be differ r ? Could be dropped into Amg gts m178?
any info appreciated
stock baseline e63 m178 is putting down more and tuned of course is putting down more then stock/tuned m178 in Gts , despite the e63 being a standard auto and awd
has to be bigger turbos as tune in both is not showing same or higher numbers in gts?
if so- e63 m178 turbo part #’s would have to be differ r ? Could be dropped into Amg gts m178?
any info appreciated
08-09-2018, 01:52 PM
#2
Member
Are the turbos in the new e63 m178 different size then the Amg gts? Not the actuall compressor housing size but maybe higher MM wheels ?
stock baseline e63 m178 is putting down more and tuned of course is putting down more then stock/tuned m178 in Gts , despite the e63 being a standard auto and awd
has to be bigger turbos as tune in both is not showing same or higher numbers in gts?
if so- e63 m178 turbo part #’s would have to be differ r ? Could be dropped into Amg gts m178?
any info appreciated
stock baseline e63 m178 is putting down more and tuned of course is putting down more then stock/tuned m178 in Gts , despite the e63 being a standard auto and awd
has to be bigger turbos as tune in both is not showing same or higher numbers in gts?
if so- e63 m178 turbo part #’s would have to be differ r ? Could be dropped into Amg gts m178?
any info appreciated
Seems like bigger turbos and maybe even strong internals in the E and S versions? Renntech rates the E/S version at 691hp 694 ft/lbs STOCK. They rate the GTR version at 609/541. It gets crazier from there, with just a tune the E/S version goes to 773/778 and the GTR version only goes to 659/614. So the E/S versions are running MUCH MUCH more boost safely, has to be bigger turbos at the least and maybe strong internals as well. Even with the upgrade turbo's for the GTR, it still cant match the power of the E/S version with just a tune. This is why road tests of the E and S class with the 4.0 have higher trap speeds than the GTR despite weighing 1100 lbs more
I'm guessing they will put the E/S version in the upcoming Club Sports and Black Series
08-09-2018, 02:20 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
Is there anyway to find out if there is actually internal differences in M178 piston /rods/crank/oiling/beadwork Bc if there is not - and there is a diff part # for the turbos on the E CLASS, S CLASS- then ostensibly u could get those turbos w that part # and drop them in a gt/gts and make serious power
it would be less efficient to make the actual internals of the M178 fundamentally different model to model vs just change turbo wheels size, fuel system capabilities etc ....
has or will mercedes divulge any of this technical info?
it would be less efficient to make the actual internals of the M178 fundamentally different model to model vs just change turbo wheels size, fuel system capabilities etc ....
has or will mercedes divulge any of this technical info?
08-09-2018, 02:22 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
I suspect it’s bigger turbo wheels in same housing
i had the chance to see overlay of my GTS M178 and E CLASS M178 Dyno plots and the gts spools faster for the same boost and waste gate duty cycle - this suggests a smaller turbo
i had the chance to see overlay of my GTS M178 and E CLASS M178 Dyno plots and the gts spools faster for the same boost and waste gate duty cycle - this suggests a smaller turbo
08-09-2018, 02:27 PM
#5
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
23 Posts
Lifted G500, GT-S, track Cooper S
In Misha's video (linked below), Lucas from Renntech in Germany mentions similar findings to the above in terms of power, and that the E class motor internals are built when compared to the other motors. Doesn't go much into detail from there, but certainly correlates some more.
08-09-2018, 02:38 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
Ok so just a quick google search reveals that the E And S CLASS have a M177??? Not M178?
difference being the m177 is a wet sump lubrication vs M178 having dry sump
lubrication. No further differences were listed
I know wikipedia can have bunk info tho..
so m177...
difference being the m177 is a wet sump lubrication vs M178 having dry sump
lubrication. No further differences were listed
I know wikipedia can have bunk info tho..
so m177...
Trending Topics
08-09-2018, 06:29 PM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 2,441
Received 950 Likes
on
571 Posts
‘24 BMW iX M60
I'm sure I read quite a few months ago that one reason why the new E63 (S) makes more power than the GT R is that the exhaust routing in the GT series cars is more restrictive than in the E63; hence the OEM tune is less 'aggressive'.
Bish
Bish
08-09-2018, 07:59 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
my gts is being tuned and I’ll have those #’s shortly but it won’t be anywhere near that even w less parasitic losses -
its gotta have bigger turbos along w back pressure differences as u pointed out
The following users liked this post:
MalibuScott (08-10-2018)
08-09-2018, 08:45 PM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
I’m not obsessed I’m just exploring the differences between M177 in e63/s63 vs M178 and seeing if there is anyway to adapt the bigger twin scroll turbo and manifold to the gts vs 3rd party turbo upgrade
lol I don’t see how exploring that is being obsessed
lol I don’t see how exploring that is being obsessed
08-09-2018, 10:24 PM
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
The E63s is AWD. It can handle the power in a straight line as a result . But it’s heavier and needs a little kick.
The top speed is limited below the GT series. It will also start to lose ground in a race with curves. It handles well but less so in a turn than the GT series.
You our can tune the GT engines and get a lot more power but races aren’t won solely on HP numbers.
The top speed is limited below the GT series. It will also start to lose ground in a race with curves. It handles well but less so in a turn than the GT series.
You our can tune the GT engines and get a lot more power but races aren’t won solely on HP numbers.
08-10-2018, 11:57 AM
#20
I grabbed some parts numbers. Theses are the part numbers, left and right.
2017 GTS
a1770900080
a1770900080
2018 GT
A1770900080
A1770900080
2018 GTC
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 GTR
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 E63
A1770900180
A1770900280
2018 S63
A1770900180
A1770900280
As mentioned on the other link, if you have a GTR and want to go with a E63/S63 turbo, you'll need a manifold at the very least least to work with the twin scroll turbo. I have a GTS, I'd be happy to buy a GTR/GTC turbo off anyone that's going to do the upgrade.
2017 GTS
a1770900080
a1770900080
2018 GT
A1770900080
A1770900080
2018 GTC
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 GTR
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 E63
A1770900180
A1770900280
2018 S63
A1770900180
A1770900280
As mentioned on the other link, if you have a GTR and want to go with a E63/S63 turbo, you'll need a manifold at the very least least to work with the twin scroll turbo. I have a GTS, I'd be happy to buy a GTR/GTC turbo off anyone that's going to do the upgrade.
The following users liked this post:
sno (08-10-2018)
08-10-2018, 12:07 PM
#21
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South Fl
Posts: 539
Received 146 Likes
on
105 Posts
EQE 350+, EQS 450+, AMG C63
I grabbed some parts numbers. Theses are the part numbers, left and right.
2017 GTS
a1770900080
a1770900080
2018 GT
A1770900080
A1770900080
2018 GTC
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 GTR
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 E63
A1770900180
A1770900280
2018 S63
A1770900180
A1770900280
As mentioned on the other link, if you have a GTR and want to go with a E63/S63 turbo, you'll need a manifold at the very least least to work with the twin scroll turbo. I have a GTS, I'd be happy to buy a GTR/GTC turbo off anyone that's going to do the upgrade.
2017 GTS
a1770900080
a1770900080
2018 GT
A1770900080
A1770900080
2018 GTC
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 GTR
a1770900300
a1770900300
2018 E63
A1770900180
A1770900280
2018 S63
A1770900180
A1770900280
As mentioned on the other link, if you have a GTR and want to go with a E63/S63 turbo, you'll need a manifold at the very least least to work with the twin scroll turbo. I have a GTS, I'd be happy to buy a GTR/GTC turbo off anyone that's going to do the upgrade.
Very cool...
I bet there would d be a market on here for those GTR turbos.
08-10-2018, 12:22 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
'11 911 Turbo S, '15 HELLCAT, '07 Escalade, '15 Sienna
Great info!!! In addition to e63 manifold turbo - need oil line and coolant lines and heat shield they are slightly diff . Also the offset to the downpipe is slight diff but a spacer works
can I get part #’s for e63 manifold , heat shield, coolant and oil lines??
And i I agree just doing the GTR /GTR turbo would be simplest
can I get part #’s for e63 manifold , heat shield, coolant and oil lines??
And i I agree just doing the GTR /GTR turbo would be simplest
