jules

Hi,

I have an '02 C240 retrofitted with COMAND by MBenzNL. I recently took my car for warranty work behind the console. When the dealer returned the car, the COMAND could no longer see any satellites. I suspect they didnt know how to deal with dash mounted antenna instead of the teleaid antenna that is used in factory installations. I recall Steve mentioning that the use of the dash mounted antenna was even recommended by MB. Is there any technical bulletin or other "official" source that details this? I want to go back to the dealer and with some ammunition to force them to fix the system. Will appreciate any help. Thanks!

SUNILP

Are you sure they did not forget to connect the GPS antenna.

jules

I am not sure if they forgot to connect the GPS antenna or not. I suspect that is exactly what happened, or maybe they plugged in something else (the teleaid antenna?). I refused to accept the car that way (it was closing time) and left the car with them. I have yet to hear from them.

I just have a feeling that they will come back with some argument blaming me for use of aftermarket stuff. Since I suspect that the use of the dash mounted antenna is actually supported by MB, I want to have some tech bulleting, part number, or something to rebut.

SUNILP

The teleaid antenna plug is NOT located behind the radio. That is all in the trunk. There is nothing else that can fit that plug. It must have been left disconnected.

scorchie

It's probably like sunman said... they just forgot to hook up the antenna. Regardless, if they don't fix it and say because it is aftermarket, refer them to document AN82.61-P-7474-04PA in WIS (their workshop information system). It details how to retrofit a GPS antenna to the car, which is exactly the way Steve did it.

-s-

saturnstyl

Its gonna be real hard to go in with "ammunition" as you have essentially voided your warranty on any connected components. It does not matter that they are "original" parts made by mercedes for mercedes. They are grey market parts not supported my MBUSA, and they are the ones who carry the warranty. US cars have a longer warranty covered by MBUSA, which is like a subsidiary of Mercedes. You cannot expect to take a modified car in for service or repairs and have it come back perfect every time, the techs are not familiar with this sort of system, they probably have never seen anything like it.
There is also no bulletin supporting a dash mount GPS, for USA cars. I have never even heard of one before, and cannot see how that could possibly work any better than the factory antenna on the roof.

MBenzNL

That is a lot of BS just in one post....
1) a comand is a comand...regardless wether it is for the US or the ROW market - THEY ALL ARE THE SAME AND ALL USE THE SAME CONNECTORS...if a tech is not familair with comand - so be it...but not being familair wit a EUROspec comand where as the tech is very familair with US spec comands is not(!!!) possible.
2) the connectors are all factory connectors...the tech can not see the connectors were not crimped on from factory as there is NO difference with the crimping from factory (using the proper crimping tool)
3) the underdash GPS antenna used by us is a factory MB antenna and is located at the position MERCEDES RECOMMENDS PUTTING IT WHEN RETROFITTING AN APS30 NAVIGATION SYSTEM...and as Scorchie pointed out in which WIS bulletin it can be found - it definitely exists. Nobody said that an underdash antenna works BETTER then a glass mounted antenna (yes glass mounted as the original antenna is NOT mounted on the roof)...what was said is that it doesn't work worse!

The following WIS documents (official MB docs - in this case about retrofitting an MB nav system) show pictures of GPS antennas mounted underdash:
AN82.61-P-0001P
AN82.61-P-0001PA
AN82.61-P-7474-04PB (very extensive bulletin about this particular topic)

greetingz,

saturnstyl

You are still adding devices that A) were not originally installed on the vehicle
B) not installed by a dealer and C) not approved for use on U.S. spec cars. There is no warranty on any of it, forget it, end of conversation.
There IS a difference between the comands, otherwise they wouldn't offer different versions for different parts of the world. Legal liability is a big reason why. It is illegal to activate those t.v. screens everyone is so fond of, and I damn sure wouldn't get caught doing it. You can rest assured that if anyone gets hurt or killed as a result of some inattentive driver watching t.v. that its going to get really ugly when the lawyers find out.
If it is truly important to the customer to have a comand retrofitted, then using parts designed for that area of the world would certainly be the best option for all parties involved.

SUNILP

Steve does install Euro comands and USA COMANDS depending on what the customer wants. If installing things on your car was a problem with warranty, NO ONE WOULD EVER INSTALL ANYTHING ON THEIR CARS! It's a matter of personal preference and also a matter of the dealer caring or not. Most dealers don't care. As for comands, there is NO PHYSICAL DIFFERENCE in comands. Only in the way they operate. There is NO WAY a dealer can complain of a comand installed. I have installed several myself, sold several more, and steve has sold and installed hundreds of them. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANY PROBLEM WITH ANY WARRANTY ISSUE.

NorCalGregclk55

Does not make any sense. THat would be like saying if you add a Sat. radio...or DVD video or add aftermarket speakers it will void your warrenty.

saturnstyl

It won't void the complete vehicle warranty. It does void whatever you decide to connect to or replace with aftermarket. If you decide to add your own OEM accessories, warranty does not cover improper installation.
Basically, if you didn't purchase the part in question from a dealer, don't expect it to be covered. Even if you did, coverage is only limited to defective parts.

Example scenario: Customer takes car to independent shop to try and save a buck. Customer has that shop install a Mercedes remanufactured transmission, purchased from the local dealer. That transmission carries a warranty, regardless of who installed it.
Now things get interesting.... Customer brings car to dealer, because the transmission is not working properly. The independent wipes his hands of the situation, because Mercedes is responsible for the warranty on the unit.

If the transmission is found to be defective, it will be replaced under warranty, and the dealer will do the work.

If the installation was improper, transmission was not correctly adjusted, or some other engine problem is causing the issue, it is NOT covered.

Want to install speakers? Go ahead. Don't expect mercedes to warranty the factory amplifier though, should a problem arise.
Want to install some fancy gizmo on top of your dashboard? Go ahead. Don't expect mercedes to cover removal or reinstallation should the dashboard need to be removed for some unrelated repair. The gizmo was never there from the factory, so why should mercedes be responsible for the extra labor?

Read through the boards, I am sure you are aware of all the people commiting warranty fraud of one sort or another. Lowering cars, wearing out ball joints or what have you, return it to stock to get the parts replaced for free.....
Mercedes will usually do right by the customer, cut the slack, go the extra mile etc... But remember they are doing you a favor by cutting you that slack. Pushing the envelope, when you know you did something you shouldn't have in the first place, is just stupid.
To cast aside any shadow of a doubt, "going in with ammunition" regarding an antenna that shouldn't be there, is futile IMHO. They did him a favor by not charging him for dealing with that system. If they did him a favor, why is he acting like a jerk about it when something went wrong? They probably DIDN'T KNOW anything was wrong, because that system is simply not something they ever have to deal with.

I am not afraid to bring up the other side of the issues, they are often ignored here. Modifying vehicles is a risk a customer takes. More often that not, you will get away with it anyways. Don't make the mistake of thinking you will always get away with it, if you get caught in a situation you know you caused then deal with it. People just need to be more aware of the reality of these situations, instead the the sugar coated world that is gladly passed around on the internet. I am just bringing you the flip side of the coin, if you will. Nobody else seems up to it, and it will give you a better understanding of what to expect when you car goes to the dealer for whatever reason.

Paxfobiscum

My.. my... this is getting interesting!

I know it is early in the morning but I should already get the beer and chips and watch the fireworks!

Paxfobiscum

jules,

To better understand this situation, what exactly was wrong with the "back of the console" that needed warranty work?

BklynBenz

LOL

jules

My air conditiner was shutting off on its own when in auto. Dealer said it was some air conditioner flap malfunctioning. They needed to remove the console to replace.

It turns out that they simply forgot to connect the antenna. They reconnected and everything is in working order.

jules

Steve, thank you for the bulletin references. I ended up not needing them in this situation because the problem was that they forgot to connect the antenna. But they will come in handy if anyone has an issue in the future.

Paxfobiscum

So there.... much ado about nothing.

MBenzNL

remark #1: REGARDLESS wether the comand that gets installed is US, Euro or even Japanese spec...comand is a factory mercedes part - not an aftermarket part and is designed for the cars they get installed in
remark #2: IMPROPER installation?!?!?! I hope this is more like a general remark rather then specifically referring to my installation quality...
remark #3: Besides instaling comands (and other parts) for private customers, I also install comands (and other pats) for our local dutch MB dealership (a dealership with 7 locations), our local german MB dealership (a dealership with 9 locations), several other dutch MB dealerships and multiple MB dealerships throughout california.
remark #4: Not exactly what happened here...there wasn't a gizmo on the dash - there was a factory MB headunit in the dash - like OEM...and eventhough that gizmo (or anyhthing else) was not factory installed, does that mean that the MB tech should throw it in the trunk of the car to save time or just put it back in the dash without connecting it (like it was the case here)?
remark #5: This AGAIN is as stupid as when you first posted it...a comand is a comand...and a comand is ALWAYS connected by the same connectors and antennas...If the tech never dealt with a factory MB headunit, then that is his problem and it is time for him to start learning but don't blame it on the customer if the tech forgets to connect a factory MB GPS connector in the back of a factory MB navigation unit...
remark #6: Feel free to do so...but please stick to the point and don't make up a story that makes MB techs look like complete ignorant fools...
...SEE...I see that saturnstyle knows the US MB techs better then I do...maybe his story about MB techs looking like complete ignorant fools wasn't so far fetched...eventhough I still think otherwise

greetingz,

saturnstyl

I see you take defending your ripoff business very seriously....
I imagine that if I made thousands of dollars doing questionable work and somebody tried to shed a little light on the matter I might attempt to make that person look bad also.
You have just shed a lot of light on how you do business. Making personal attacks on not just myself, but every other mercedes tech in the US will not help you grow your business.
I have refrained from elevating to this level so far... But since you are so desperate to go there, I am certainly willing to follow. You are all too eager to offer complete bull**** solutions to simple problems, just so you can sell more parts and crappy install jobs. If the installation was performed properly as you say, and there truly wasn't anythng different from the factory, there wouldn't have been any problem. Fact is, your service cannot stand up to any real scrutiny. You don't offer anything that cannot be done elsewhere for less money. You are a con artist, and I will point this out in every post you make from now on.

MBenzNL

YOU were the one who pointed out that a tech can't know much about retrofitted comand systems - not ME...YOU were the one who said they might not know how to connect these comands - not ME...I was the one who thought otherwise...
But nevermind...off onto the ignorelist you go

greetingz,

stox

Saturnstyl, IMHO, you are way out of line. Although I have never done business with MBenzNL, in every forum I have seen him participate, his actions have been helpful and professional. I have seen no reason. whatsoever, to accuse him of being a ripoff and con-artist.

jules

I have to agree.

Saturnstyl, are you really an MB Tech? All the ones I have met seem to be very tactfull and respectful individuals... The ones at my dealership know that I installed my COMAND aftermarket and they are very impressed -- had to be told it was so. The manager even updated the systems to show that my vehicle (by VIN) was equiped with a COMAND system (I don't know what that means though)

SUNILP

He updated your vehicle data card. That is something not usually done by dealerships as most don't know how to.

jules

Thanks! But what does that mean? How is having the COMAND on the data card different from not having it? Does it somehow make it "official" ?

saturnstyl

I am so hurt... On your ignore list just like scorchie???? I figured you would have tag teamed me long ago.
I will not be afraid to question the business ethics of someone who travels from another country, to the US and performs questionable modifications. The vast majority of what you do is available locally, but none of us "fools" will perform the illegal modifications you so willingly do. Perhaps coming from another country truly limits your liablility in these legal matters.
I do not follow your crowd, and I am not ashamed of it. I questioned your legitimacy as you have questioned mine. I am sure your followers will disagree with me, but such is life. Your business practices ARE questionable, and there is nothing you can say to repair that. Your responses to my points were nothing like anything a truly successful business person would have responded with.
You provide an overpriced service that is more readily obtainable locally. You surf these forums and prey upon anyone who makes an inquiry about a phone or comand or what have you. Knowing these parts are obtained through channels that are better to service these individuals, you attempt to hawk your wares while providing misleading information. Honestly, why would someone travel to another country to install a radio in someone's car unless they were making a huge profit from it? That couple with the fact that you basically don't have to provide support for any of your products brings me back to what I have thought all along about your MbenzNL enterprise. You are a con artist.