whats this part
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whats this part
can anyone please tell me what the function of the part indicated by the red arrow in the pic is? also, can it be replaced independently if it was cracked? hope some of u guys have this techinical info.
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
Looks to be the front lower subframe. That is not a cheap part either. But I am sure with a lot of time on your hands and the proper tools and equipment you can replace it. Normally the only people replacing that piece would be a body shop's frame guy! That is part of the frame if I recall. Not the frame as in the old days, but the frame components that attach to the unibody and thus keep the vehicle rigid. That looks to be the one under the engine and the one that the lower A-Arms and rest of suspension connect to. As well as the one that should support the engine as well.
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
Originally Posted by hassanm
thanx for the reply mctwin2kman, i'll try to look more into it. probably ask a mechanic about it
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From: White Lake, MI
04 C320 Coupe MT
The arrow is pointing to the front subframe. It is aluminum, and yes it can be replaced. It's not a small job, though. The engine would have to be supported, the steering disconnected, the brake lines opened (to remove the axle assemblies) etc. So, I'm thinking the price of the part will pale with the labor involved. And, don't forget the alignment afterwards.
Sorry for the bad news.
Sorry for the bad news.
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ouch, i guess replacing it will hurt my pocket quite a bit. well, maybe i'll go with the mechanics advice, he suggested to just weld the cracked part since its not completely broken and then renforce it somehow. do u guys think it'll work? does this part bare a lot of wieght? i mean i dont want it to break off while i'm on a highway or something, that'll be the end of me.
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From: Long Island, New York
'05 C230SS 6MT, 1966 Triumph TR4a IRS, Shelby Cobra 427 Supercharged
Just beware... In doing that if some one is smart and has your car looked at when you are trying to sell it to them they will see that something happened to the car. That could hurt your resale value and may negate the savings from welding it... Just a thought...
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From: White Lake, MI
04 C320 Coupe MT
Please don't mess with a load bearing part like that! It is a major load bearing part of your vehicle! So not only is it working during normal driving, but if you were ever in an accident, that part would contribute a huge amount to saving (or losing, if it was not in proper working order) your life.
No manufacturer recommends welding any suspension component. Please follow thier instructions, for your own safety and anyone who may be driving with you.
No manufacturer recommends welding any suspension component. Please follow thier instructions, for your own safety and anyone who may be driving with you.
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
I have to agree with MBbodytech. That is part of the frame system in these cars and in an accident it could end up costing you your life. Now you could have it welded by a certified aluminum welder and it would be just as strong as before if not stronger most likely. But in my opinion it is not worth the risk to do that. And I would not trust just any welder as aluminum welding is a specialized type thing. Not just any guy with a welder can do it. I used to know a guy that way the best in NY State when he was like 22, but his dad owned a welding company so he had to be. He was one of four certified in the state at the time, and NYS is a big *** state. He did my brother's engine block mounting point on his Ducati when it cracked due to a drop of the bike. Looked like it was done at the factory when he was done, that is if you could find it. All depends on what you want to do as it is your car. Personally I would have it welded and never look back after I checked it out. If the weld did not look good or the piece started to look stressed afterward then I would replace the piece. But I realize that in most cases the weld makes it stronger due to the excess metal there. But that is me and I used to watch the guys in my dad's body shop when I was growing up.
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wow, thats confusing. if i get it welded it might cost me my life unless its a really good welder in which case, the part will be stronger than before. nice. i think i'll just change the part and rest my mind. anyhow, body work here is much cheaper than the states so it'll probably cost me a fraction of what it will cost in the states. thats why we get all the salvage cars from the states. oh, i live in lebanon in case anyone is wondering.
since i'm talking about salvage cars, last week a member of the lebanese parliament died becuase his benz's backside decided to break of the rest of the car in the middle of a highway. turns out, the car was imported from the states in two pieces and was welded back together. i'm sure it looked brand new when the poor guy bought it.
this incident didnt sink in too well with my parents since i am about to buy a salvage car and get it repaired. thats the one with the cracked subframe i'm asking about. thats the only part of the car's frame that was damaged and a friend of my cousin's is working on it so i'm not too worried about it breaking apart while driving. it's gonna cost me about 2500 USD to fix it. i'm sure it'll cost way over 10K in the states.
since i'm talking about salvage cars, last week a member of the lebanese parliament died becuase his benz's backside decided to break of the rest of the car in the middle of a highway. turns out, the car was imported from the states in two pieces and was welded back together. i'm sure it looked brand new when the poor guy bought it.
this incident didnt sink in too well with my parents since i am about to buy a salvage car and get it repaired. thats the one with the cracked subframe i'm asking about. thats the only part of the car's frame that was damaged and a friend of my cousin's is working on it so i'm not too worried about it breaking apart while driving. it's gonna cost me about 2500 USD to fix it. i'm sure it'll cost way over 10K in the states.
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
Originally Posted by Outland
The secret life of wrecked cars. Who knew? I figured they all ended up dis'd for parts or scrap.
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From: White Lake, MI
04 C320 Coupe MT
[QUOTE=mctwin2kman] Personally I would have it welded and never look back after I checked it out. If the weld did not look good or the piece started to look stressed afterward then I would replace the piece. But I realize that in most cases the weld makes it stronger due to the excess metal there. QUOTE]
I have to disagree with the perception that "excess material" would make a welded part stronger. In some cases that may be true, but as long as we are talking about a cast aluminum subframe, there is no way that part should be welded, and it dosen't matter who does the welding, it will never be at the same strength as it was from the factory.
Also, there is no way to weld the subframe on this vehicle so that is would be undetectable, since it has a texture on the surface from casting it. It would be plain as day to anyone who might see it, whether they know anything about cars or not!
I don't understand how people get the idea that they have enough knowledge to make a decision that only engineers at the factory who have access to huge amounts of information and years worth of research are capable of.
Consider this: That part is the load bearing member for the engine and front susupension, and that area is the jack point for the front of the vehicle. This is a very abusive environment. You have vibration from the engine, forces from the suspension when driving, and massive temprature changes all working at this new weak point. It's not going to last! And then what happens when someone slides a floor jack under the front of this car, and all of a sudden the weld dosen't hold?
Also, dosen't the fact that a poor repair just caused a car to break in two remind anyone that there are some things that you just shouldn't repair?
I have to disagree with the perception that "excess material" would make a welded part stronger. In some cases that may be true, but as long as we are talking about a cast aluminum subframe, there is no way that part should be welded, and it dosen't matter who does the welding, it will never be at the same strength as it was from the factory.
Also, there is no way to weld the subframe on this vehicle so that is would be undetectable, since it has a texture on the surface from casting it. It would be plain as day to anyone who might see it, whether they know anything about cars or not!
I don't understand how people get the idea that they have enough knowledge to make a decision that only engineers at the factory who have access to huge amounts of information and years worth of research are capable of.
Consider this: That part is the load bearing member for the engine and front susupension, and that area is the jack point for the front of the vehicle. This is a very abusive environment. You have vibration from the engine, forces from the suspension when driving, and massive temprature changes all working at this new weak point. It's not going to last! And then what happens when someone slides a floor jack under the front of this car, and all of a sudden the weld dosen't hold?
Also, dosen't the fact that a poor repair just caused a car to break in two remind anyone that there are some things that you just shouldn't repair?
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
[QUOTE=mbbodytech]
He asked a question and I answered. I also said the factory piece would be the better way to go. And I would not even buy a car like that so it does not matter what I think really. If he was doing it for himself to save money then OK, I have no problem with it either way. And from an engineering stand point it all depends on the weld and welder as to if it would hold or not and of course the crack itself. Me I would replace it. But some people are not like me so to each there own. Where that piece is the car will not break in half so that is a moot point there. As for structural rigidity, that all depends on what is done to it and how big the original crack was. I have seen factory welds break and have seen cars come from the factory with no weld what so ever in certain places. And I have seen factory cars with welds where they should not be and are not on any other car. So to say that it would be more likely to fall apart or fail is laughable since the factory sometimes does not even do it. My brother drove a car once for months wondering what the noises were and why the body felt to shift when turning. The factory missed over half the welds tying the body to the frame rails and parts of the unibody! Kind of funny actually that the company is now owned by Dailmer that this vehicle was made for. Either way it does not matter to me what he does. You run the risk when you buy a Salvaged vehicle that it is not going to be perfect.
Originally Posted by mctwin2kman
Personally I would have it welded and never look back after I checked it out. If the weld did not look good or the piece started to look stressed afterward then I would replace the piece. But I realize that in most cases the weld makes it stronger due to the excess metal there. QUOTE]
I have to disagree with the perception that "excess material" would make a welded part stronger. In some cases that may be true, but as long as we are talking about a cast aluminum subframe, there is no way that part should be welded, and it dosen't matter who does the welding, it will never be at the same strength as it was from the factory.
Also, there is no way to weld the subframe on this vehicle so that is would be undetectable, since it has a texture on the surface from casting it. It would be plain as day to anyone who might see it, whether they know anything about cars or not!
I don't understand how people get the idea that they have enough knowledge to make a decision that only engineers at the factory who have access to huge amounts of information and years worth of research are capable of.
Consider this: That part is the load bearing member for the engine and front susupension, and that area is the jack point for the front of the vehicle. This is a very abusive environment. You have vibration from the engine, forces from the suspension when driving, and massive temprature changes all working at this new weak point. It's not going to last! And then what happens when someone slides a floor jack under the front of this car, and all of a sudden the weld dosen't hold?
Also, dosen't the fact that a poor repair just caused a car to break in two remind anyone that there are some things that you just shouldn't repair?
I have to disagree with the perception that "excess material" would make a welded part stronger. In some cases that may be true, but as long as we are talking about a cast aluminum subframe, there is no way that part should be welded, and it dosen't matter who does the welding, it will never be at the same strength as it was from the factory.
Also, there is no way to weld the subframe on this vehicle so that is would be undetectable, since it has a texture on the surface from casting it. It would be plain as day to anyone who might see it, whether they know anything about cars or not!
I don't understand how people get the idea that they have enough knowledge to make a decision that only engineers at the factory who have access to huge amounts of information and years worth of research are capable of.
Consider this: That part is the load bearing member for the engine and front susupension, and that area is the jack point for the front of the vehicle. This is a very abusive environment. You have vibration from the engine, forces from the suspension when driving, and massive temprature changes all working at this new weak point. It's not going to last! And then what happens when someone slides a floor jack under the front of this car, and all of a sudden the weld dosen't hold?
Also, dosen't the fact that a poor repair just caused a car to break in two remind anyone that there are some things that you just shouldn't repair?
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From: nJ/pHiLLy/nY
Audi 225 TT.w203 sedan.Bmw 318tiCali.Ed.VW Jetta vr6
i just had a vr6 jetta totaled by breaking that piece. it had some internal mods and some other stuff and was really fast and i kept breaking the bolt in my front motor mount which sat on that part of the sub frame. i replaced the bolt and mount 3 times within 2 weeks, the third time i replaced it i took a 4" nylon strap with pull tight clamps and straped it around the mount and the frame. a week later spinning 3rd gear, my pedal stuck to the floor doing about 70mph. i shut the car off and coasted to a stop . i got out and looked under the car and that piece was in 2 pieces laying on the ground like a broken V.. i poped my hood and my motor was sitting 4 inches lower than it should have which was pulling everything down including the throtle cable. it could have been a mess but it wasnt. so to make a long story a little shorter...my insurance guy that came out didnt even pop the hood or even get futher down than on his knees once and totaled it. so i would see what ur insurance thinks before replacing something major that could be not structurly proper under your motor and connected to your front suspension..
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From: Lockport, New York
2005 C230 Sport Sedan, Kompressor Engine, Brilliant Silver
Hes talking about buying a salvaged car, the insurance is NOT going to cover it, more than likely, they allready did, and are selling it off for salvage/parts.
Personally, I would replace it.
Personally, I would replace it.
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yeah, i am talking about buying a salvage car so no insurance is involved with respect to me, but the car was bought from an insurance company. thanks for the discussion guys, as i said before, i'm just gonna replace the part and rest my mind.
