NJPaprika230

OK folks, here are my dyno charts showing base reading, after Upsolute chip, and after the Kleemann ring. Sorry if the quality is a little poor on the scans...

NJPaprika230

After Upsolute chip...

NJPaprika230

After Kleemann ring...

tommy

Ed, nice gains.

Will getting re-chipped help increase the results any? If so, are you considering it?

DtS

Quite informative! Any further mods planned?

NJPaprika230

I am considering contacting Upsolute to see if they have program for my ecu to take advantage of the extra boost. I'm kind of on the fence right now. And I am also considering a larger intercooler. I'm still waiting to see how some others fare in that department before plunking down the $ching$.

TimmyC230boy

Those are impresisve numbers. I would imagine upsolute should be able to tweak there chip to take advantage of more boost. It looks to me that after the upsolute chip the dyno pull was smoother? does the car run smoother than before the mods?

KJ-TypeR

Great info, but it is VERY important for you to use SAE numbers instead of "STD/Actual numbers". SAE numbers use correction factors for air temp., humidity etc. etc. to allow a fair comparison between numbers obtained on different days under different conditions.

Otherwise, it is not very easy to compare results because there are too many "other" factors to worry about.

Rick

::bling bling:: ZZZZoooooooooooooooooom!

Buellwinkle

What's interesting to me with the pulley ring is how much hp you kept losing as you did more runs. This shows how ineffective the intercooler is with the additional boost. It didn't do it on the middle Upsolute run at stock boost. Are you going to do an alloy pulley to pickup the additional 8hp?

Also you lost HP at the top end between 5k and 6k. I've seen this on other dyno runs with the Kleemann ring. I bet if you put a scanner on it you'll see that the ECU is retarding the timing to compensate for the detonation. What octane are you running? What was the temperature where you were doing the dyno?

KJ-TypeR

Interesting observation. I think you have solved the mystery, but may not know it yet!

You already noticed that subsequent runs show less and less hp implying that the intercooler is operating out of its efficiency range.

As a result, the intake charge is getting hotter and hotter after each run which is observed by the loss in power after each run.

As the intake charge gets hotter and hotter, the engine is more prone to detonation.

As a result of the intercooler being inefficient in cooling the intake charge, the intake charge going into the engine is TOO HOT, which causes detonation, which causes the ECU to retard timing between 5K - 6K rpm, which leads to the loss in power observed.

I'd be VERY interested in seeing how high octane gas or octane booster would affect his dyno runs. I'm guessing that he could see a much better power curve if he used high octane gas/octane booster.

Buellwinkle

I've said this for a while. Brandon's dyno test were done at high altitude where the requirement for higher fuel octane are not as high. For example, in the mile high city, using 93 octane may be equivalent to using 95 octane at sea level. Also doing the dyno at cooler temps makes the intercooler more effecient. This makes his dyno results not reproducable at lower elevations at summer temps. This is why Linh and I are looking into intercooler solutions from Spearco. James Wei already did his and paid about 1,500 for his SLK with a DSR pulley. The intercooler is one solution but a pricey one. Kleemann used to provide cooler spark plugs on their older kits and have stopped. I'm wondering if that will solve the detonation problem as the cooler plugs will help disapate heat in the cylinder heads. I've used this successfully on my bikes. Actually Buell sent out a bulletin about 2 years ago specifying cooler plugs in California. Before I get flamed for comparing an air cooled motorcylce to the C230, I'm not, it's just that the motorcycle doesn't have knock sensors and sophisticated ECU so when it detonates you hear it, when the C230 detonates you just lose power fast and may never know. Higher octane is not an option in So Cal as 91 is as good as it gets but may help in the east where you can get Sunoco.

The other solution that's in the mid price range is to reprogram the fuel and ignition curves to handle the boost using a chip made for this application.

This issue is not Kleemann's fault, it's just the nature of the beast. Increase boost by itself increases heat. Kleemann just gets the brunt of the heat because he is more upfront and vocal about his products. I wish the other tuners where as tuned in to the forums as he is.

TimmyC230boy

ok Buellwinkle, are you saying that if i run a dyno with my car at me place (400ft elevation with 93 octane) and a cool engine with say, 5 minutes in between runs i would produce higher power? I know temp has a big role in it. My Camaro, when dynoed in 95 degree summer heat and then dynoed at 35 degrees could vary as much as 15hp. This only goes to show that the stoc intercooler is not "strong" enough. Would a C32 intercooler fit?

Buellwinkle

Sure, a C32 water/air intercooler would be great and is smaller than our air/air intercooler. The problem is designing all the plumbing to fit the 2.3L including the heat exchanger for the intake. You would get power right from the start since you are not dependent on high air flow and the power would be more consistant.

There was a great suggestion on another forum to hookup a windshield washer pump to 2 windshield washer nozzles and attach them pointing at the intercooler and have a switch in the car. When you need extra boost you flip the switch. An extra 10-20hp+ on demand for $20 worth of junkyard parts.

A C32 water/air intercooler or one like it would be a great project for Kleemann to take on and sell for $899 for the aluminum version and $599 for the steel version. They already make intercoolers for their superchargerkits, it's a natural.