Optimized Fuel Settings?
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From: Vancouver, BC
W203 coupe Kompresor
Re: Re: Re: Well, thanks
I'm in Canada but ours here is similar to the European settings.. for octane.. very very simaliar.. actually the same.. i was just told to put in the best.. some gas stations have 91 as highest.. some have 93.. so i would guess it would be just the same...
Originally posted by vadim
Oh, yes... those octane numbers are RON (used in Europe). For the US and Canada they need to be translated into (R+M)/2 as follows:
(numbers are not exact, but close enough)
87RON -> 83US
89RON -> 85US
91RON -> 87US
93RON -> 89US
So, even at the highest possible ignition timing setting almost any octane grade would do.
Now, since the manual says that the minimum recommended octane number is 91 (which is ~ 95RON), it leads me to believe that that's what the "base" setting is. But - again- this is just a speculation.
Oh, yes... those octane numbers are RON (used in Europe). For the US and Canada they need to be translated into (R+M)/2 as follows:
(numbers are not exact, but close enough)
87RON -> 83US
89RON -> 85US
91RON -> 87US
93RON -> 89US
So, even at the highest possible ignition timing setting almost any octane grade would do.
Now, since the manual says that the minimum recommended octane number is 91 (which is ~ 95RON), it leads me to believe that that's what the "base" setting is. But - again- this is just a speculation.
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From: Vancouver, BC
W203 coupe Kompresor
Re: Vadim, go back and re-read
Originally posted by Duffer
Kleemann's post -- (one doesn't need to translate an MBUSA setting from Euro specs) 93 is 93.
Kleemann's post -- (one doesn't need to translate an MBUSA setting from Euro specs) 93 is 93.
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From: Ashburn, VA
'19 GLC 300, '19 TM3SR+
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well, thanks
Originally posted by art_Ccoupe
I'm in Canada but ours here is similar to the European settings.. for octane.. very very simaliar.. actually the same.. i was just told to put in the best.. some gas stations have 91 as highest.. some have 93.. so i would guess it would be just the same...
I'm in Canada but ours here is similar to the European settings.. for octane.. very very simaliar.. actually the same.. i was just told to put in the best.. some gas stations have 91 as highest.. some have 93.. so i would guess it would be just the same...
Last edited by vadim; Jun 19, 2002 at 07:59 PM.
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From: Ashburn, VA
'19 GLC 300, '19 TM3SR+
Re: Vadim, go back and re-read
Originally posted by Duffer
Vadim, go back and re-read Kleemann's post -- (one doesn't need to translate an MBUSA setting from Euro specs) 93 is 93.
Vadim, go back and re-read Kleemann's post -- (one doesn't need to translate an MBUSA setting from Euro specs) 93 is 93.
It could be a glitch in the Star Diag software - to display incorrect scale designation for the US market - but it sure seems to be one of the things that keeps this debate going.
Last edited by vadim; Jun 19, 2002 at 06:42 PM.
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From: SF Bay Area
2002 C230 K
I'm pretty sure vadim's right, we had this same discussion a couple of months ago. Somewhere on this site (I'm too lazy to look) someone has posted screen-shots of the computer settings from the Star Diagnositc computer. It specifically shows octane as RON (although this could be incorrect as vadim has speculated). Base is probably the setting for using 95 RON (91 US).
Cheers, BT
Cheers, BT
Last edited by trench; Jun 19, 2002 at 06:45 PM.
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M3
Now that we see that the computer shows "At least 93 ron" which equals 89 Octane in the U.S., wouldn't it make sense that the "BASE" setting = 95 RON?
The computer has 89 RON, 91 RON, 93 RON, and then BASE. By following the pattern, I'd guess the next step up would be 95 RON. (Number increases by 2 everytime).
The owners manual says "Car needs 91 Octane or greater".
Since 91 Octane = 95 RON, this also implies that BASE = 95 RON = 91 Octane just like the manual says.
Even the computer screen shows that "This correction is used to retard the ignition timing in order to prevent the engine...fuel is poor".
IMO, I'd leave the setting as is.
The computer has 89 RON, 91 RON, 93 RON, and then BASE. By following the pattern, I'd guess the next step up would be 95 RON. (Number increases by 2 everytime).
The owners manual says "Car needs 91 Octane or greater".
Since 91 Octane = 95 RON, this also implies that BASE = 95 RON = 91 Octane just like the manual says.
Even the computer screen shows that "This correction is used to retard the ignition timing in order to prevent the engine...fuel is poor".
IMO, I'd leave the setting as is.
Last edited by KJ-TypeR; Jun 19, 2002 at 07:11 PM.
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From: SF Bay Area
2002 C230 K
Notice the screen shot says, "the correction is used to retard the timing to prevent the engine...when the fuel is poor." This implies that all of the corrections retard the timing - there isn't one to advance it for better fuel quality and that base is for 95RON/91 US.
I was inspired to find the other thread on this same topic:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...&threadid=6756
BT
I was inspired to find the other thread on this same topic:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...&threadid=6756
BT
Last edited by trench; Jun 19, 2002 at 07:19 PM.
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Originally posted by KJ-TypeR
Now that we see that the computer shows "At least 93 ron" which equals 89 Octane in the U.S., wouldn't it make sense that the "BASE" setting = 95 RON?
The computer has 89 RON, 91 RON, 93 RON, and then BASE. By following the pattern, I'd guess the next step up would be 95 RON. (Number increases by 2 everytime).
The owners manual says "Car needs 91 Octane or greater".
Since 91 Octane = 95 RON, this also implies that BASE = 95 RON = 91 Octane just like the manual says.
IMO, I'd leave the setting as is.
Now that we see that the computer shows "At least 93 ron" which equals 89 Octane in the U.S., wouldn't it make sense that the "BASE" setting = 95 RON?
The computer has 89 RON, 91 RON, 93 RON, and then BASE. By following the pattern, I'd guess the next step up would be 95 RON. (Number increases by 2 everytime).
The owners manual says "Car needs 91 Octane or greater".
Since 91 Octane = 95 RON, this also implies that BASE = 95 RON = 91 Octane just like the manual says.
IMO, I'd leave the setting as is.
I agree with your reasoning. I would like to know how our bureaucrats came up with that stupid average of RON and MON crap. I propose that we call it the Stupid Obnoxious Bureaucrat's Octane Number or SOB'sON for short.
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
So, if by chance a larger crank pulley makes your car ping because of crappy gasoline in your area or high heat it may pay to have it set to 93 or 91 to retard the timing a little bit to prevent the ECU from retarding it a lot at high RPM. Or is the ECU adaptive enough to figure out that you are pinging now and then and adjust the timing curves on it's own.
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From: Ashburn, VA
'19 GLC 300, '19 TM3SR+
Re: Screen Shot
Originally posted by renncpe
Setting 2 is 93
Setting 1 is 91
Base at least 89
Setting 2 is 93
Setting 1 is 91
Base at least 89
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From: Nashua, NH
2008 VW GTI
Originally posted by renncpe
It says values of ron at least 93 octain. not 93 RON.
Randy
It says values of ron at least 93 octain. not 93 RON.
Randy
Research
Octane <---
Number
This leads me to believe that they are using RON units even though it reads "octane" in the pull-down. Europe octane is measured in RON and ours is xxx... Either way, it's still considered OCTANE and that's what's shown on the pull-down. I think KJ-Type R is correct.
RANT: How many people work in Mercedes engineering? And NONE of them read this board????? Nobody can help us here?!? WTF!?!?
Last edited by avlis; Jun 19, 2002 at 09:09 PM.
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From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
There is no confusion here at all. If you have a ping problem that is caused by poor fuel you retard the spark. the top setting allows for the most advance for 93 Octane or better. the second setting less advance for 91 Octane and so on.
Randy
Randy
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Originally posted by renncpe
There is no confusion here at all. If you have a ping problem that is caused by poor fuel you retard the spark. the top setting allows for the most advance for 93 Octane or better. the second setting less advance for 91 Octane and so on.
Randy
There is no confusion here at all. If you have a ping problem that is caused by poor fuel you retard the spark. the top setting allows for the most advance for 93 Octane or better. the second setting less advance for 91 Octane and so on.
Randy
BTW, you have a pulley, what octane fuel do you use and do you have any issues with it?
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Originally posted by renncpe
There is no confusion here at all. If you have a ping problem that is caused by poor fuel you retard the spark. the top setting allows for the most advance for 93 Octane or better. the second setting less advance for 91 Octane and so on.
Randy
There is no confusion here at all. If you have a ping problem that is caused by poor fuel you retard the spark. the top setting allows for the most advance for 93 Octane or better. the second setting less advance for 91 Octane and so on.
Randy
Just as a side note: when was the last time anyone saw 83 octane gas at the pump??? The last time I saw gasoline this poor I was in South Korea.
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From: Sitting behind thing freakin desk of mine. Dreaming I was playing my Taylors, and driving my Benz. Long Live The VRAA!!!!!!
C230 Sports Coupe
and what have we learned class.
USE THE BEST FREAKING GAS YOU CAN, AND LET THE ECU MANAGE THE IGNITION.
USE THE BEST FREAKING GAS YOU CAN, AND LET THE ECU MANAGE THE IGNITION.
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From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
Originally posted by Buellwinkle
I think the confusion is that, is the 93 on that menu screen RON like what they sell in Europe or (RON+MON)/2 like what the pumps in the U.S. sell? The confusion is that is says RON on the screen but some think it's (R+M)/2. If this is the case, what is BASE, is that the default the car comes with? Is it RON 95 as some speculate?
BTW, you have a pulley, what octane fuel do you use and do you have any issues with it?
I think the confusion is that, is the 93 on that menu screen RON like what they sell in Europe or (RON+MON)/2 like what the pumps in the U.S. sell? The confusion is that is says RON on the screen but some think it's (R+M)/2. If this is the case, what is BASE, is that the default the car comes with? Is it RON 95 as some speculate?
BTW, you have a pulley, what octane fuel do you use and do you have any issues with it?
Randy
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M3
Originally posted by TimmyC230boy
and what have we learned class.
USE THE BEST FREAKING GAS YOU CAN, AND LET THE ECU MANAGE THE IGNITION.
and what have we learned class.
USE THE BEST FREAKING GAS YOU CAN, AND LET THE ECU MANAGE THE IGNITION.
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From: Los Angeles
2002 c230k
[QUOTE]Originally posted by avlis
[B]
The term "octane" is used in RON
Research
Octane <---
Number
This leads me to believe that they are using RON units even though it reads "octane" in the pull-down. Europe octane is measured in RON and ours is xxx... Either way, it's still considered OCTANE and that's what's shown on the pull-down. I think KJ-Type R is correct.
So?
M = motor
O = OCTANE
N = number
[B]
The term "octane" is used in RON
Research
Octane <---
Number
This leads me to believe that they are using RON units even though it reads "octane" in the pull-down. Europe octane is measured in RON and ours is xxx... Either way, it's still considered OCTANE and that's what's shown on the pull-down. I think KJ-Type R is correct.
So?
M = motor
O = OCTANE
N = number
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From: Los Angeles
2002 c230k
Originally posted by KJ-TypeR
MON = Measured Octane Number
MON = Measured Octane Number
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/
Its a long boring read, but it is correct.
