mbny

Hey guys, my grandmother is looking to buy a new C240 and i'm helping her shop around. only options would be metallic paint and sunroof package. how much do u think she should pay and if she waits until the new 06's hit in a few months, how much more could she save picking one off the lot? Thanks for your help

Jim Banville

I'd shoot for invoice. Just price it out on Edmunds.com

KnowalotaboutMB

since you live in NYC area... pay close to invoice or about a grand over cause you are in da city yo.

Capt Nemo o2

Um... I live just outside NY on LI and I paid $2150 below invoice for my car. Try MB of Massapequa. Plus in about 60-90 days (thats what they told me) they are moving to a new showroom with 41 service bays. No appointments for service, same day service whenever possible. The showroom will have 80 cars INDOORS. There will be a pool room manicurist, internet cafe, and a bunch of other neat stuff... If I find the paper they sent I will scan it and post it!

ctC230K

the answer is ZERO buy a C230 LOL!!! your grandmother??? is this thread a joke? everyone says the 240 is for older people but i guess it's true... :p

Moviela

The dealer pays invoice for the car, but gets 3% of the MSRP from the factory when the car is sold, he gets another 2% if you return a survey to the factory indicating "all excellent" from you about your experience with the dealer.

No reason you should not have all of that, but in no event more than 3% under invoice. Edmunds.com will tell you the invoice price. Just deduct a minimum 3% from that.

Avoid the salesman when you visit a dealer, if you call the sales manager and make an appointment, he might be more inclined to give you more because he does not have to pay a salesman.

Remember if you buy an 05 when the 06's are out, the car has a year of depreciation built-in, and the dealer should be willing to go deeper on the discount, or you might as well buy the 06.

Mercedes has been offering cash to dealers of upto $3000. for C240 sedans. At this moment (thru 5/31/05) C240 4Matic has $2000.00 cash to dealer, plus $1000.00 Mercedes-Benz Credit bonus cash, which means you save $3000 on those 4 wheel drive cars. This should get the car price down to about 30K, plus tax and tags.

The 2 wheel drive has no incentive now, but that might change June 1st. Incentives can be seen on Edmunds too.

You can also consider European delivery, the German government will pay 7% of the price of the car. It is actually a tax refund to encourage tourism. You dont need to actually drive the car out of the factory, you just need to visit any country in the EU and get a form signed by customs.

Get quotes from carsdirect.com, also House of Imports and Downtown LA motors, and use those prices to guide you in talking to dealers closer to where your Grammie lives.

delbomber

That's a tough thing to say, esp in the NY area. I had a dealer walk away from a deal where my pen was an inch from the paper because I insisted on getting the car AT invoice. As a professional negotiator I can tell you there's no such thing as pride when money is involved. He would have called me back the next day if he was willing to accept less. Never heard from him again.

Of course that was a for a rare 6-speed with all the options I wanted, so I had less leverage than someone buying a phased-out C240, but it's not as if there are people clamoring for this car either. 1-3% below invoice for the 240would be a great deal.

Carsdirect for your zip code and surrounding zips...California bears no relevance to the east coast. A dealer who I became friendly with was genuinely shocked when I told him about Cali prices.

amdeutsch

Lets see a link for that statement or some other form of proof.

jrct9454

Yes, all of this discussion is sensible and on point, except the assertion about EU delivery. The German govt doesn't pay a penny to DC on any car bought there....where does this stuff come from?

MB and BMW and Volvo [but not VW/Audi any more] encourage overseas delivery and subsidize the practice primarily as a publicity tool - basically, dealer margins are cut substantially on an overseas delivery, but the dealers also benefit from an allocation bump and the subsequent service business.

Anyway, I've been around MB for nearly 40 years [our first MB was on overseas delivery], and I can assure you that there is no govt participation in this program. What did change a couple of decades ago was that the govt no longer tries to collect the VAT up front, and then rebate it to you - this was a real deterrent to picking up a German car in Germany in the '60s and '70s, because the paperwork was such a hassle [we took delivery of ours in Zurich and then immediately drove back across the border into Bavaria for the rest of our vacation in 1968]. Now, they only try to collect the VAT if you haven't exported the car in 3-6 months, just to make sure you really are a tourist.

Because you also save the destination charge on an EU delivery from Mercedes, the general rule of thumb is about 8-9% off MSRP. These days, you can easily match that at a lot of dealerships for a car on the ground, as noted in the posts above - but only if you are willing to settle for the options on the car. One advantage of EU delivery has always been the ability to customize the car - you can do that for a domestic delivery, but are unlikely to score as big a discount in the process.

Moviela

All goods purchased in Germany are subject to a value-added tax (Mehrwertsteuer/MWSt or Umsatzsteuer) of 16% (or 7% on certain goods). Tourists can apply for a VAT refund for goods purchased in and exported to a country outside the European Union within three months after the date of the purchase.

Companies can also ask for a MwSt refund on goods used in manfacturing purchased by them under certain conditions. I purchase raw materials in Germany and receive a refund for those products as a component of finished goods exported to non-EU countries. I also get a refund for raw materials in goods delivered in Germany to customers who reside in non-EU countries.

Of course, strictly speaking you are right, the government does not contribute a single penny, as you say, to 41 billion dollar DaimlerChrysler. Not collecting the tax, however, lowers the unit cost on those cars sold to individuals who can prove they were in Europe. Mercedes passes part of those savings to the buyer. The other part offsets the cost of the hotel, meals, insurance, and taxi coupons. E. Harms also gets a few Euro's to schlep your car from the drop off point to the boat. The net result is that the same revenue flows to the company if you take European Delivery, or buy a unit off the lot of a NAFTA Dealer.

Follow the money, it will lead you to the truth. The concept of providing European Delivery for customer relations is nothing more than spin by company PR hacks.

amdeutsch

I've never heard this much in all my life. Of course the car will be cheaper when not collecting the VAT. Have you ever looked at the German price sheet? Under certain conditions even German purchasers residing in Germany don't have to pay the VAT. Using it to pay for conviences might be considered a drain on MBs profit in your book but you are forgetting that they also count on those people making pruchases when picking up their vehicle.
Now in regards to to shipping. The vehicle will have to be shipped regardless. Difference here is a pickup versus a drop off. All companies here have charges whether they be internal or external. Don't you think that MB doesn't have accounting for the internal cost of prepping the car for shipment. And what about outsourcing to have this done more cost effective?
Your statement about net revenue flow........Companies wouldn't do if they wouldn't be able to show a profit in it. And with profit I mean all of the costs together including possible, and I emphasize possible, tax credits received from the government in support of tourism and the money that this brings into the country.
Now let me address your math as stated. VAT equals 16% on MBs. Markup is 7% for dealers which you don't pay under this program. You also save the ship and handling which as jrct9454 pointed out can amount to 1 - 2% depending on vehicle. This would leave a remainder of , lets call it 7% for the h3ll of it. Now your claim as I understand is that this pays for the hotel, meals, insurance, and taxi coupons and for E. Harms to schlep your car from the drop off point to the boat. And whats with the term NAFTA dealer?

TwofourT

Got My c240 4matic with Sunroof Package for $30,500 off the lot at Rallye. Massepequa let me walk out when I brought them the Rallye price (Head of Sales told me it was 'impossible') When showed proof of the price to Massepequa I was told rallye has a larger inventory and therefore can reduce prices more???

It sounds like I may be going to Massepequa for service soon, where do you service currently

Me- Huntington

Best of Luck

Moviela

Perhaps I did not write clearly about the shipping charges. The major transport cost from factory to any NAFTA dealer is included in the price of every car. In actual fact each destination has slightly different costs, but they are averaged for pricing purposes. There is a small charge, usually less than 100, Euros for transport from a drop off location to the port. This expense is only a little more than that collected to move units from the factory to the docks.

NAFTA is The North American Free Trade Agreement. This allows goods to move between Canada, Mexico, and the USA without import/export taxes. NAFTA is a term applied to the reigon by Bodo, the DC finance chief, (A very nice man.)

Here is an easy to understand snapshot of the company financials, further indepth coverage is in the SEC filing form 20-f.

http://slidemodul.equitystory.com/pr...tion_color.pdf

Moviela

Amdeutsch writes: Under certain conditions even German purchasers residing in Germany don't have to pay the VAT.

That is true, but for the most part they are diplomats, who are exempt from most taxes by treaty, and American servicemen who have a SOFA (status of forces agreement) that exempts them from MwSt. They are a tiny minority, the exception that proves the rule.

amdeutsch

Now I'm certain that you're in some sort of sales capacity. Redirect the focus to something you know a little about. Include some form of seriousness, supported with a few verifiable facts thrown in, supported by some big words most everybody has heard of, hoping that it'll help change the direction to something that will take the heat of you.

This whole thing reminds me of a salesmonkey at a stealership and how they try to make a sale with their knowledge base when confronted with a customer who has done research and/or happens to be in the know.

Michael Gordon

I just bought a new 2005 Black 240 4Matic with sunroof from Loeber in Lincolnwood, IL for $30,250 on Saturday (5/28). I did minimal shopping around because I knew that it was a good price and I have bought cars from Loeber before and know they are a good dealer. I did take the MB financing so that the dealer was able to receive the $1,000 dealer rebate. I am quite happy with my car.

mbny

yeah, the manager over at massapequa bs'ed me bigtime on a car they had in inventory. those guys suck. i bought my car from helms bros in flushing and service it there as well. they're great people and have a very nice waiting area. they're installing a shoe shine, hair and nail salon, spa, and cafe as well.

benzset

28k

Moviela

Your brilliant speculation would be incorrect. I am a manufacturer. I have never worked as a salesman, nor in the automotive industry in any capacity. I am in the entertainment business.

This summer I will sail from Brauneberg on the Mosel around the point in Koblenz to Boppard on the Rhein to collect some bottles for my cellar of the excellent fragrant, pale color, lightbodied with a lively, fruity acidity wines. There are no rivals for these quality German wines in the world.

I will raise my Donald Duck flag on the mast when passing your town to salute your irascible feisty nature.

European Delivery remains a way for people to buy many models of Mercedes cars at a better discount than can be obtained at many dealers in the NAFTA reigon. Many dealers feel that all they need to do is quote the MSRP during the sales process, and you should be happy.

delbomber

Are you alluding to Riesling? The French do it better...go to Alsace and get some from there instead.

amdeutsch

That point happens to be the famous Deutsche Eck. You should know that.


Let me know when. My watercannon and I will be waiting.

Then there is Kabinet, Auslese, Spätlese, etc. All depends on the occasion. Best thing is always to buy from them direct. A little wine tasting tour can be quite fun.

delbomber

Big fan of Riesling...I just find anything beyond Kabinett too cloying/sweet. I've found the Alsacian Riesling to be a bit more palateable overall...then again, in the US White Zinfandel takes up more shelf space than anything (what a joke), leaving less room for lesser known varietals beyone Cabernet, Merlot, Chardonnay, etc...

Moviela

French Rieslings are good wines, and have a place in my cellar, but the soil along the Mosel is a bit different, having a lot of slate in the composition, resulting in a different taste than the French wines of the same grape. Also I have enjoyed cases of Scheurebe and Mueller-Thursau that I would consider variants of Rieslings. The real fun of visiting wineries is that you can sometimes score bottles that are made in too few numbers to garner wide distribution.

I happen to agree about the white Zinfandel, but no one ever went broke underestimating the dull edge of the masses. Perhaps now that our Supreme Court has allowed interstate shipment of wine, it will be easier to obtain a more interesting mix without the problems of travel and transport.

Water Cannon? How refreshing on a hot August afternoon! Thanks!

amdeutsch

NP. Its easy enough since the only sailing speed you'll be getting would be because of the current.

BTW
That would be after you're back on your way after buying at the Brücken-Schenke. Its easy enough; pull over in front of the bridge, walk up the stairs on the same side and you'll find the entrance door on your left at the top of the stairs.

delbomber

Wouldn't bother me one bit if it wasn't for the squeezed shelf space for much more deserving imports and the almost universal requirement that I now preface one of my favorite varietals, Zinfandel, with the word "red". Kinda like saying wet water...hrmph.

C230's are nice. There, brought it back on topic.